Towing With a Smaller Vehicle

[Bucking Pig]

15 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

 

I'm NOT a lead foot and historically do a fair bit of stop and go city driving through the week then battle the cottage trek north on Friday then back on Sunday. There is the fuel consumption on the dash that I reset each time I fill up and it is for the most part close to accurate. I have a spreadsheet though where I record all the details. Date, km, litres and cost. From that it calculates a lot of other numbers. I have seen it as low as 10 to 11 per 100 on the highway in optimal circumstances (no hill and no wind) but that doesn't reflect overall reality. I seem to average out around 14 to 15 per 100 on a tank of gas. It's been creeping up toward the 16 mark but is due for a tuneup.

Yeah.  Not a lead foot either.  Most driving would be on the highway, so sounds like that's pretty good.  You said you've had it a while, no other issues?

[scottyr]

I was running out of kms on my F150s lease last year and used my wifes 2011 Grand Caravan with 3.6V6 to tow my 6x12 v-nose (with 3 dirt bikes and gear inside) to Calabogie and I was pleasantly surprised how well it towed.   I ran it in 5th gear (6 speed trans) and it was great at 110km/h along the 401.    

[02Sled]

44 minutes ago, Bucking Pig said:

Yeah.  Not a lead foot either.  Most driving would be on the highway, so sounds like that's pretty good.  You said you've had it a while, no other issues?

It's a 2011. Other then brakes and routine maintenance the only small problem was in the first year. Once on a rainy day I pulled out to pass and it coughed. It turns out it sucked some moist mist in when the turbo kicked in. I went to the dealer and they had gotten a service bulletin and fix for it. Never had a problem since. Oh and one bad tire that couldn't b properly balanced but that wasn't the vehicle. The dealer swapped out all 4 tires 

[Bucking Pig]

Thanks 02.

[Big Pussy]

2 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Looks like the Quality Inn at Liskeard

 

You are correct.  2009, the year we rode from there to Moosonee and back.  The Viper belonged to XTC500.  My fully laden T-Cat is still in the trailer.

 

BP

[Ultrafrozen]

2 hours ago, 02Sled said:

 

I'm NOT a lead foot and historically do a fair bit of stop and go city driving through the week then battle the cottage trek north on Friday then back on Sunday. There is the fuel consumption on the dash that I reset each time I fill up and it is for the most part close to accurate. I have a spreadsheet though where I record all the details. Date, km, litres and cost. From that it calculates a lot of other numbers. I have seen it as low as 10 to 11 per 100 on the highway in optimal circumstances (no hill and no wind) but that doesn't reflect overall reality. I seem to average out around 14 to 15 per 100 on a tank of gas. It's been creeping up toward the 16 mark but is due for a tuneup. Those are the real numbers which aren't quite as good as on the dash but close.

 

That's a full 4 door cab, 4 wheel drive with 6.5 box and a fiberglass cap. They tell me the newer ones with the aluminum body are doing even better.

 

The wife's 2011 Super crew 6.5ft box c/w rigid tonneau cover 3.5L EcoBoost averages 11.5 to 12.5km/100km highway with regular passing and 10 to 15km over the speed limit.  Best I got was 9.8L/100km highway drafting along with 401 traffic.  Towing the 29ft 7000 lb camper gets me 20 to 25L/100km depending on how aggressively I drive.  I got the extended warranty to 7 years/240k and so far had the typical timing chain wear issue but no turbo problems.  Timing chains were replaced under the standard warranty.

 

Oh and torque numbers are up around 420ft-lbs and hp at 365.  I think the 5.0 V8 makes 380 ft-lbs of torque and 360hp.

 

I think the 2017 3.5L EcoBoost will have higher HP and torque values.  Hopefully the timing chain issues were fixed after the 2011 version.

 

If you tow a lot, get a diesel.

[catinental couch]

Sorry to disagree on getting a deisel ultrfrozen. Unless you are using it for work and constantly working it hard, the maintenance costs will kill you. These tier 4 diesels are costly to run.

[02Sled]

1 hour ago, Ultrafrozen said:

 

The wife's 2011 Super crew 6.5ft box c/w rigid tonneau cover 3.5L EcoBoost averages 11.5 to 12.5km/100km highway with regular passing and 10 to 15km over the speed limit.  Best I got was 9.8L/100km highway drafting along with 401 traffic.  Towing the 29ft 7000 lb camper gets me 20 to 25L/100km depending on how aggressively I drive.  I got the extended warranty to 7 years/240k and so far had the typical timing chain wear issue but no turbo problems.  Timing chains were replaced under the standard warranty.

 

Oh and torque numbers are up around 420ft-lbs and hp at 365.  I think the 5.0 V8 makes 380 ft-lbs of torque and 360hp.

 

I think the 2017 3.5L EcoBoost will have higher HP and torque values.  Hopefully the timing chain issues were fixed after the 2011 version.

 

If you tow a lot, get a diesel.

I'm guessing you have the 355 rear end. I got the tow pkg with transmission cooler, integrated brake controller, hitch and 373 which has a slight impact on fuel consumption.  Is that calculated or off the readout on the dash

[revrnd]

15 hours ago, catinental couch said:

I see these light vehicles on the highways towing trailers that are either too big or too heavy all the time. IMHO it is like asking a Volkswagen to do the work of a Mack truck. It is neither safe nor recommended for long term reliability of your vehicle. Where do people think the saying " the tail wagging the dog" came from? Then people cry when they smoke the engine or transmission assuming they did have enough brakes to stop it. Nuff said.

I was going to mention that in my original post, as that was a frequent comment.

 

Just over 10 years ago I saw an incident on the 400 north of Hwy. 9. It was midday during the week, w/ some snow accumulation on the road & it was snowing. I was southbound when I came across a full size GM pickup towing a 2 place enclosed trailer facing south on the northbound side of the median. I have no idea what had happened, but I imagine it was scary.

 

This incident happened a few years later. I was thru there soon after & there is a downhill grade @ this location.

 

https://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/2008/06/28/hamilton_girls_recovering_after_virginia_crash_claims_family.html

 

Was there ever a Dakota packaged as a "Durango"? I'm thinking it was a Durango towing a travel trailer not a 5er.

[revrnd]

13 hours ago, Big Pussy said:

I own a 2006 2WD Dodge Dakota 3.7L with 4 speed OD, 3.55 axle w/sure grip differential and drum rear brakes..  I pull a 2 place Toy Carrier 10ft tilt aluminum trailer with 2 heavy sleds.  When on the road, the transmission is in tow/haul which locks out OD but lets the torque converter lock.  With this axle at 100KPH, the engine revs 2600 rpm.  The box of the truck is FULL of jacks, spare trailer wheels, tools, jerry cans of gas, shovel, etc.  I have done countless trips to Cochran, Timmins, New Liskeard, North Bay, Parry Sound, etc.  The rig is on the road every weekend that there is snow in the south since I can't ride from my door.  As a big bonus, I don't need any CVOR, or yearly inspections although my gear is as mechanically sound as it gets.  It usually uses gas at the rate of 16 L/100KM pulling that load.  You know there is a trailer behind.  You don't do any quick moves. Yes I use mirror extensions when going any distance.  I don't have to clean all the snow off to open the hatch.   And I did not mortgage my first born to buy it either.  I don't tow more that 110 K/hr and that is pushing it for this rig.

 

BP

 

BP, that's probably not a horrible load for your rig, but would you even think of towing 4 place w/ it?

[revrnd]

3 hours ago, catinental couch said:

Sorry to disagree on getting a deisel ultrfrozen. Unless you are using it for work and constantly working it hard, the maintenance costs will kill you. These tier 4 diesels are costly to run.

X2

 

Back in the 90s about a year before I went back to a full size p/u, I priced out 1 for S&G. When we had gone thru the options the salesman asked me if I had considered going w/ the diesel. I said not really. He then asked me if it was a company truck because of me ordering the clearance lights & snow plow prep. I said no. I said I probably didn't put enough klicks on in a year. When I told him I put on around 25,000 a year he said that wouldn't be enough to justify it (this was back when diesel was cheaper by a good margin). I told him him I didn't tow anything either. He said that was another strike. He asked me how long I was planning to keep it & when I said 6 years, he said I'd be wasting my money on it big time.

 

On the maintenance side, my 6 L takes 6 liters of oil during a change while my brother's D'max uses 10. I'm pretty sure there's a water separator that is a regular swap too, plus the "cow pee" DEF you have to add. Doesn't the DPF regen' send your fuel mileage into the toilet as well?

 

There are probably a lot of diesel 3/4s on the road that were strictly bought for that extra badge on the hood or fender & not the actual intended use.

 

 

 

 

[slomo]

A couple of things to throw in

-for those with the Ford EcoBlow motors that wish to disable the engine noise consistently being sent to the stereo system (among other changes) there is 3rd party software available:

 

http://forscan.org/download.html

 

and a good 'how to' section on it here:

http://www.f150forum.com/f118/forscan-software-enable-disable-features-your-truck-348987/

 

And anyone even remotely contemplating the purchase of a Honda Ridgeline might want to do some research on their V6 engine - despite losing a colossal class action lawsuit from owners who are discouraged that the 'shut the cylinders down when coasting' system seems to ruin engines due to continuous oil flow to cylinders and spark plug fowling - Honda has made no effort to improve the engines, even no longer allowing the driver to shut the system off as in the past.

[catinental couch]

Revrnd, not only are you correct in your above statements but in the new diesels,a PCV and EGR removal and cleaning/replacement is required every 100,000 km. it can cost $3,000.00-$5,000.00 depending on the engine and how you drive. City driving and idling causes the most damage.

[catinental couch]

Slomo, I have many customers with the Honda 3.5 V6 and the only problem they gave in the first 300,000 km of their lives was EGR plugging which in some cases necessitated the removal of the EGR  valve and the intake manifold for cleaning.

On coasting down hill, if the oil pressure was shut down, the engine most certainly would grenade. For many years the programming was to turn off the injectors but leave ignition functional on coast down. Therefore no spark plug fouling. The EGR was also exercised on high vacuum situations and lean burn to keep the EGR system as clean as possible.

EGR plugging will cause detonation from excessive combustion temperatures but the owner would have to be deaf and forceful to drive in that condition to the point of engine destruction.

[catinental couch]

Me thinks the media reported erroneously and maliciously to sensationalize this news report.

[Big Pussy]

8 hours ago, revrnd said:

BP, that's probably not a horrible load for your rig, but would you even think of towing 4 place w/ it?

 

The load is pretty high faster than 100 kph.  The stability comes from all the gear I carry in the box giving the truck more mass.  I would never tow a larger dual axle trailer both because the 3.7L engine is too small and the truck is too light.  It is what it is and I bought it for this application.  I hope Dodge soon makes a replacement.  It has 106,00 km and is oiled every year.  I will keep it as long as I can.

 

BP

[catinental couch]

My youngest daughter just bought a new F150 four door,5.5 foot box 4X4 with a hard tonneau cover. It has the trailer tow package with the 5.0l Coyote engine. The only reason she got the trailer tow package is because that is what the dealer had in stock. She couldn't back up a trailer if her life depended on it. She only uses it like a car. She was complaining that most of the trucks she liked had Eco-boost engines and I wouldn't let her buy one. She has a digital right foot like a cop: either idling or full throttle. She will be keeping this thing fo at least 12 years. The Coyote should have greater longevity.

[revrnd]

18 hours ago, ZR SLEDHEAD said:

All too often you see a trailer being hauled by a vehicle that has no business being hooked to it. Sure everything is fine on the clean and sunny day with calm winds. Fast forward to that grizzly snowing n blowing night, usually first one into the ditch.

 

I think my brother's truck prior to his 1st Dmax was a 6 L 3/4 ton. He towed his 5er for 1 season w/ it. Ptbo to Algonquin PP & a few campgrounds around southern Ontario it was OK. I asked him how the tow went down to Cedar Point in Ohio. He said the truck would tow it across I-90, but he wouldn't do it on a regular basis. The 6 L was pretty much maxxed out w/ the loaded trailer @ interstate speeds. Later that year he got the diesel.

[Ultrafrozen]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎28 at 10:03 PM, 02Sled said:

I'm guessing you have the 355 rear end. I got the tow pkg with transmission cooler, integrated brake controller, hitch and 373 which has a slight impact on fuel consumption.  Is that calculated or off the readout on the dash

3.73 rear end with MAX tow package.  11,200 lbs towing capacity with 17,100 lbs GCWR if I remember the numbers right.  This lets me tow all I ever need with a comfortable performance factor.  Highway cruising speed up here (90+15 km/hr) allows about 1700 RPM which happens to be where the engine already puts out 90% of peak torque.

 

The fuel economy ratings are based on the on-board computer with 3/4 full tank fill-ups/resets typically.  I calculated for about a year and a half and quit because the computer was always dead-on.  In town driving by the wife and kids results in much higher numbers.  I routinely see from 15 to 20L/100km.  The remote starter is probably the worst thing invented for fuel economy numbers.

[Ultrafrozen]

On ‎2016‎-‎12‎-‎28 at 9:13 PM, catinental couch said:

Sorry to disagree on getting a deisel ultrfrozen. Unless you are using it for work and constantly working it hard, the maintenance costs will kill you. These tier 4 diesels are costly to run.

 

I agree 100% for normal use.  But like I mentioned, "If you tow a lot, get a diesel."  Nothing beats all the torque developed by a diesel, you just pay a little more for it.

 

We have been eliminating diesels from our fleet over the past five years and we have our own automotive maintenance dept so you would think the higher cost of maintenance would not be as critical but it adds up.  We reserve the diesels for towing the tool trailers and transports.

[catinental couch]

I agree UF. The torque generated by the diesel cannot be argued but the use must be justified. My wife manages a school bus branch and they have gone from diesel to 80% gasoline V10 Ford engines factory converted to high pressure injected propane power. The drivers all notice the decrease in power and they need to fuel up more often but they run quieter and put out better heat to the heaters/defrosters. The overall fuel costs are down and the maintenance costs are way down.

By the way, are your remote starters OEM or aftermarket? The only remote starters that I have found worth owning are OEM. Too many various and serious problems related to the aftermarket ones.

[Ultrafrozen]

18 minutes ago, catinental couch said:

By the way, are your remote starters OEM or aftermarket? The only remote starters that I have found worth owning are OEM. Too many various and serious problems related to the aftermarket ones.

 

OEM remote starter.  I saved a boatload of cash on this truck by buying it as a demo with 2000 km on it.  The salesperson had ordered it for himself exactly as I wanted complete with Ford remote starter, four keys, rubber mats, etc.  The only thing missing was the tailgate step.

 

My BIL was the local resource for aftermarket remote starters for years but has stopped doing it because of all the integrated safety systems in newer cars and limited support from the manufacturer.  Too many modules/ relays/ dooflickys to keep in stock I think.

 

[02Sled]

I agree about the fuel consumption and the remote starter but I really like having it. My office window looked out at the parking lot and I could see my truck. I would remote start the truck summer or winter to either pre-cool or pre-heat. Similar for leaving home. I didn't have it run for long though. About the same length of time as perhaps a couple of stoplights.

[irREVerent]

On 12/28/2016 at 8:51 AM, ArcticCrusher said:

I tow a two place with my Rubicon,   still far below the 3500lb rating.   I have extended mirror I attach if any distance is required,  but really it's short haul.  Not sure I would trust a Ridgeline for towing as I remember them plagued with tranny issues. 

I drove a Honda Ridgeline for 5 years, and really liked it for everything except towing.  Very carlike in its handling and comfort, independent rear suspension, easy to park, tons of space in the cab for 5 people and their stuff (better than many fullsize pickups), and several neat features including the dual action tailgate, weatherproof trunk under the bed...other manufacturers please copy!  And contrary to your comment above ArcticCrusher, the drivetrain (including the tranny) was typical Honda, reliable as a brick...it came with a factory-installed tranny cooler and towing package, and never gave me a bit of trouble.  (It was the Honda vans that had the transmission issues, not the Ridgelines.)  The 3.5L V6 provided lots of pep (when not towing), but I will say the fuel mileage was mediocre at best.

 

Our sled trailer at the time was a tandem 5 ft. X 20 ft. E & J (with electric brakes), which weighed about 1,400 lbs empty, so by the time both sleds were on board, plus some gear and the spare tire, it weighed around 2,700 lbs loaded...just over half the Ridgeline's tow rating of 5,000 lbs.  Even towing that relatively light weight, the Ridgeline would be working hard at times, especially in hilly country, and on the flat going into even a light headwind.  And the fuel mileage would be bad when towing...typically 21 or 22L/100 kms...which meant frequent stops to refill on a long trailer trip, because the tank was not nearly as big as a fullsize pickup.  So, we eventually bit the bullet and traded it on a lightly-used Chevy Avalanche, which we really enjoy. Versatile, comfortable, and a great tow vehicle for the sleds and boat.  Despite the fact it weighs about a thousand pounds more than the Ridgeline, it tows much better, with typical towing fuel mileage in the 18L/100 km range (unless towing into a really strong headwind), typical highway mileage (when not towing) of 11-13L/100 kms, and in-town mileage in the 14-15L/100 km range. 

[revrnd]

2 hours ago, Ultrafrozen said:

 

OEM remote starter.  I saved a boatload of cash on this truck by buying it as a demo with 2000 km on it.  The salesperson had ordered it for himself exactly as I wanted complete with Ford remote starter, four keys, rubber mats, etc.  The only thing missing was the tailgate step.

 

My BIL was the local resource for aftermarket remote starters for years but has stopped doing it because of all the integrated safety systems in newer cars and limited support from the manufacturer.  Too many modules/ relays/ dooflickys to keep in stock I think.

 

My new truck & the previous trucks have/had the OEM starter. In the past I'd heard of "issues" concerning aftermarket kits, so stayed away from them.

 

Since I'm not commuting, the remote isn't used on a daily basis in the winter. The previous truck wouldn't turn on the AC when started, so I never used it in the summer.