Available Trails: 0 km

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

Ofsc should email out the reports each season to permit holders and let them know exactly where the funds are going. Most organizations

do this. No I didn't ask. All they usually have is how many permits the club sold so far, by each permit type. I will have to go to the show and ask at OFSC booth. I bet they won't answer that either, since they won't have info available.

That's a great idea. The OFSC should spend on the snow money to send reports to people who aren't club members and do nothing in the way of volunteering in the organization. I'm sure the MTO wouldn't mind. Goodness knows they send a report to everyone who buys a license sticker on how they spend the money generated by same!

[Blake G]

Wouldn't cost much to publish more information on the OFSC website.

[revrnd]

Wouldn't cost much to publish more information on the OFSC website.

I guess buying a trail permit isn't like buying a share in a corporation. It doesn't matter if you own 1 share or a controlling interest, you get an annual report.

 

The OFSC info is probably online for the directors, governors & club presidents to access. How hard would it be to set it up that a permit buyer enter his permit number and have access to an actual report? Not the sanitized, "We sold 15% more permits this early bird season as compared to last year" columns in Go Snowmobiling.

 

I was involved @ the executive level in the late 80s/early 90s & as far as I'm concerned, things haven't changed when it comes to the perceived secrecy.

 

Google "imperial oil report" & this comes up:

 

http://www.imperialoil.ca/canada-english/about_investors_reports_aandq.aspx 

[02Sled]

I don't recall exactly where I have seen it but I know I have seen a representation many times of how the permit dollar is allocated. In particular lots of pie charts showing how much for insurance etc. I have also seen the breakdown in our clubs finances as to where money is spent and it is definitely never wasted. We always ensure good value for our money. Especially on the sleds we buy for trail patrol to ride  There are a lot of variables and a lot that happens whether there is snow or not. The groomers are all serviced and outstanding repairs from last season done. That eats into groomer operating. Some clubs may be lucky and have volunteers qualified to do the repairs, others simply don't have the expertise or those that do don't have enough time so they pay someone to do the job.

 

For the area clubs I know of there is never a "pot of gold" left over at the end of the season, lots of snow or little snow. There are always trail improvements pending available cash that the typical rider never realizes take place. If there's some cash left over perhaps it goes to getting a culvert put in and drainage created to avoid the volunteers being in thigh deep cold water draining a trail year after year. By the time the rider gets to it the trail is high and dry and a nice to ride.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

Wouldn't cost much to publish more information on the OFSC website.

I'm not sure publishing  all the expenditures on the website for everyone to see is a good idea. IMHO if you are interested in knowing, get out to a club meeting and find out firsthand. The more information you publish on a website gives interested individuals less  incentive to be directly involved with the clubs and districts IMHO.

[Doogirl69]

Ofsc should email out the reports each season to permit holders and let them know exactly where the funds are going. Most organizations

do this. No I didn't ask. All they usually have is how many permits the club sold so far, by each permit type. I will have to go to the show and ask at OFSC booth. I bet they won't answer that either, since they won't have info available.

 

When you buy a Big Mac at McDonald's do they send you their Annual Report? No

 

When you buy your Val tag do you get the MTO's Annual Report? No

 

Same thing here. A Permit is just a product sold like the burger.

 

Want more info, become a paid Club member, go to a meeting and the info is available. 

[revrnd]

When you buy a Big Mac at McDonald's do they send you their Annual Report? No

http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/content/mcd/investors/financial-information/annual-report.html

 

Took me 10 seconds to find this out.

 

If I'm available to go to the club's AGM, I'll ask about the club's & the OFSC's financials.

[grover_yyz]

When you buy a Big Mac at McDonald's do they send you their Annual Report? No

 

When you buy your Val tag do you get the MTO's Annual Report? No

 

Same thing here. A Permit is just a product sold like the burger.

 

Want more info, become a paid Club member, go to a meeting and the info is available. 

I thought that when I buy my permit and specify the club; I am a member of that club. If, what you say is correct then I didn't know this.

[02Sled]

http://www.aboutmcdonalds.com/content/mcd/investors/financial-information/annual-report.html

 

Took me 10 seconds to find this out.

 

If I'm available to go to the club's AGM, I'll ask about the club's & the OFSC's financials.

 

The McDonalds annual report doesn't tell you how much it costs to make a Big Mac. The level of detail some are looking for regarding spending of permit money isn't in the Annual Report to Shareholders from a business. There are distributions from the OFSC based on permit sales to the districts / clubs and then they spend money from  that distribution as necessary to operate, whether that be fixing a trail that has been rutted up from off road vehicles, replacing signs that have been stolen, trail improvements etc. That level of detail is available from the club.

[02Sled]

I thought that when I buy my permit and specify the club; I am a member of that club. If, what you say is correct then I didn't know this.

 

I have heard that some clubs charge some sort of small fee but that is only a rumour. I know ours doesn't.

[sledjunk]

I thought that when I buy my permit and specify the club; I am a member of that club. If, what you say is correct then I didn't know this.

That depends on each club's bylaws regarding membership.  Either way, as a permit buyer, you are a Class C (IIRC) member of the OFSC, which according to their bylaws, entitles you to access the trails and the member benefits associated with the permit.  That is all!

[revrnd]

That depends on each club's bylaws regarding membership.  Either way, as a permit buyer, you are a Class C (IIRC) member of the OFSC, which according to their bylaws, entitles you to access the trails and the member benefits associated with the permit.  That is all!

I guess you aren't entitled to knowing the secret hand shake then?

[Viperules700]

I have heard that some clubs charge some sort of small fee but that is only a rumour. I know ours doesn't.

Some clubs here in the south (ones with club houses) usually charge a 10 dollar family membership fee.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

I have heard that some clubs charge some sort of small fee but that is only a rumour. I know ours doesn't.

Does that mean that everyone who selects your club on the permit application is automatically a club member?

[02Sled]

Does that mean that everyone who selects your club on the permit application is automatically a club member?

 

For us it does. We don't have a club membership fee. Then of course we have the "core" members. Those who participate actively in the operation of the club. If you bought a permit and designated our club we thank you for the support and welcome you as a member of the club. Designating your permit $'s to our club is the way you chose to participate in the operation of the club. You simply may not have time available to volunteer.

[Blake G]

The OFSC web site provides a generic financial summary that  may be sufficient to meet the general interest needs of most sledders:

 

 http://www.ofsc.on.ca/experience/rider-cafe

 

 

 

Elsewhere on the OFSC site is the statement of purpose. "Our decision-making processes are accountable, transparent, inclusive, timely, provincial in perspective, and respectful of local interests and priorities."

 

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE

 

The Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs (OFSC) is a volunteer led not for profit association that provides the voice for organized snowmobiling in the Province of Ontario.

 

Our MISSION is to:

Provide leadership to member organizations in our commitment to enable exceptional snowmobile trails and rider experiences throughout the province.

 

Our VISION is that:

Snowmobiling is recognized and celebrated as Ontario’s premier winter recreation and tourism experience.

As a provincial federation, the OFSC succeeds when our members succeed. Consequently, we strive to fully understand and consistently meet the needs and expectations of all our various members.

 

Our decision-making processes are accountable, transparent, inclusive, timely, provincial in perspective, and respectful of local interests and priorities.

 

This accountability and transparency is intended for the benefit of "member organizations" which are the clubs, not individual permit buyers.

 

I guess it is up to each club to determine the degree to which they want to be accountable and transparent to individual permit buyers.

 

Now that the Equalization system allocates most of the permit money to wherever it is most needed for grooming, sledders seeking more financial transparency have the option of "buying where they see accountability" rather than buying where they ride.

 

Are there clubs that make financial transparency a priority? For example, do any clubs freely share their financial information with their permit buyers, by email or web site perhaps?

[Nutter]

For us it does. We don't have a club membership fee. Then of course we have the "core" members. Those who participate actively in the operation of the club. If you bought a permit and designated our club we thank you for the support and welcome you as a member of the club. Designating your permit $'s to our club is the way you chose to participate in the operation of the club. You simply may not have time available to volunteer.

 

 

 

How do you ever get a legal quorum at meetings if anyone who buys a Baxter Snowriders permit is a club member ? you guys sell quite a few permits now.

 

Under Ontario corp law you must have over 50% of your membership present to meet a legal quorum. I don't understand how clubs that classify permit buyers as members can have legal votes at meetings when just getting 20 or 30 people to show up at a meeting is like pulling teeth ? 

[sledjunk]

That legislation is not yet in effect and therefore the clubs existing bylaws stand and can specify a quorum.  That is part of the new NFP legislation,

[Yukon]

How do you ever get a legal quorum at meetings if anyone who buys a Baxter Snowriders permit is a club member ? you guys sell quite a few permits now.

Under Ontario corp law you must have over 50% of your membership present to meet a legal quorum. I don't understand how clubs that classify permit buyers as members can have legal votes at meetings when just getting 20 or 30 people to show up at a meeting is like pulling teeth ?

Our club exec and directors hold the vote which is in our bylaws. Club members who bought a permit from BSR are welcome to attend meetings and participate in the process and operations/direction as a member...

You have the right for your voice to be heard....

If you want to know more, buy a permit from us and attend a meeting.. Its that simple....

Have a nice day! :p

[bbakernbay]

Same here with North Bay Snowmobilers Club.

Every Permit Buyer is a Club Member.

Our AGM is tomorrow evening, I expect under 20 'Members' to attend, one-half of which will be existing Directors.

The new legislation, if it ever materializes, will require some major changes in how Clubs are structured.

We haven't amended our ByLaws until more information is received from Ontario government.

[Viperules700]

I'm not sure publishing  all the expenditures on the website for everyone to see is a good idea. IMHO if you are interested in knowing, get out to a club meeting and find out firsthand. The more information you publish on a website gives interested individuals less  incentive to be directly involved with the clubs and districts IMHO.

The bottom line OFSC is a not for profit organization. We should be able to see opening and closing balances, list of how much was spent each year, ie groomers, fuel, insurance, etc. We need to educate permit buyers and future permit holders, proving their hard earned permit money is being spent wisely. I am hearing lots of people here in the south are not going to buy this fall. So some education about how permit dollars were actually spent, might change people's minds when they are sitting on the fence about buying yearly. The black box needs to disappear.

[andreyboater]

_{Thank you for sharing well done. I have luck this winter and caught first snow spike February 15th for our 7 days RAP tour.}  

[bbakernbay]

The bottom line OFSC is a not for profit organization. We should be able to see opening and closing balances, list of how much was spent each year, ie groomers, fuel, insurance, etc. We need to educate permit buyers and future permit holders, proving their hard earned permit money is being spent wisely. I am hearing lots of people here in the south are not going to buy this fall. So some education about how permit dollars were actually spent, might change people's minds when they are sitting on the fence about buying yearly. The black box needs to disappear.

Many people say that but how many are really willing to park a $15,000 sled and forego a $30 or $80 discount on their permit.

How much financial info do people need to know? Groomer and drag $350,000, replacement steel bridges at $100,000, huge fuel bills, replacement parts that are scary, especially grousers, on and on it goes.

If Freeloaders increase and enforcement declines, which it already has, then the viability of the sport may be threatened.

[PISTON LAKE CRUISER]

The bottom line OFSC is a not for profit organization. We should be able to see opening and closing balances, list of how much was spent each year, ie groomers, fuel, insurance, etc. We need to educate permit buyers and future permit holders, proving their hard earned permit money is being spent wisely. I am hearing lots of people here in the south are not going to buy this fall. So some education about how permit dollars were actually spent, might change people's minds when they are sitting on the fence about buying yearly. The black box needs to disappear.

I take it that by your use of the word WE that you are going to become involved in a club or association so that you have the correct and proper information to use while you "educate permit buyers".  You wouldn't want to be giving wrong information to those permit buyers.

[Viperules700]

I take it that by your use of the word WE that you are going to become involved in a club or association so that you have the correct and proper information to use while you "educate

permit buyers". You wouldn't want to be giving

wrong information to those permit buyers.

I will be getting involved with a club for this up coming sledding season. Maybe even make it out to a few groomer association meetings as well.