bbakernbay Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 By virtue of the registration number, you can verify the owner. Now you just have to prove that the sled was on the trail and where. A timestamped photo of the GPS screen and the sled should be pretty solid evidence This is incorrect according to our local OPP Snowmobile Officer. Trail Patroller needs to be able to positively identify the Operator of the snowmobile. Sled Reg Number doesn't do anything. He said he phoned the two owners to let them know they were reported but he couldn't lay charges without a positive physical ID. These two guys wouldn't take helmets off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Interesting This is incorrect according to our local OPP Snowmobile Officer.Trail Patroller needs to be able to positively identify the Operator of the snowmobile. Sled Reg Number doesn't do anything.He said he phoned the two owners to let them know they were reported but he couldn't lay charges without a positive physical ID.These two guys wouldn't take helmets off. Sometimes, I wish that the officers would actually READ the acts and maybe TRY to help us out. Of course, this would assume that the higher levels are truly interested in partnering with the OFSC and the clubs. :angry-smiley-005: Trespass to Property Act Motor vehicles and motorized snow vehicles11. Where an offence under this Act is committed by means of a motor vehicle, as defined in the Highway Traffic Act, orby means of a motorized snow vehicle, as defined in the Motorized Snow Vehicles Act, the driver of the motor vehicle ormotorized snow vehicle is liable to the fine provided under this Act and, where the driver is not the owner, the owner of the motor vehicle or motorized snow vehicle is liable to the fine provided under this Act unless the driver is convicted of theoffence or, at the time the offence was committed, the motor vehicle or motorized snow vehicle was in the possession of a person other than the owner without the owner’s consent. 2000, c. 30, s. 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm not talking about Trespass Act, I'm concerned about Motorized Snow Vehicle Act and the matter of operating on OFSC trails without a valid Trail Permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Owner may be convicted 24. The owner of a motorized snow vehicle may be charged with and convicted of an offence under this Act or the regulations or any municipal by-law regulating, governing or prohibiting the operation of motorized snow vehicles, for which the driver of the motorized snow vehicle is subject to be charged unless, at the time of the offence, the motorized snow vehicle was in the possession of a person other than the owner without the owner’s consent and on conviction the owner is liable to the penalty prescribed for the offence. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm not talking about Trespass Act, I'm concerned about Motorized Snow Vehicle Act and the matter of operating on OFSC trails without a valid Trail Permit. If they don't have a permit and are on private property then owner can be nailed. That's good news for the south where there is more private property a little more difficult in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If they don't have a permit and are on private property then owner can be nailed. That's good news for the south where there is more private property a little more difficult in the north. How so? OFSC prescribed trail, no permit, charge either driver or owner. Sadly this is where Trail Patrol doesn't have the authority to "demand " driver licence, hench "drive on!" Take the pic, submit it to the OPP Liason Officer and see what happens. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I wonder how many Trail Patrollers have laid this charge in the last 5 years. My guess would be a single digit number, including zero. Does anyone know of any charges and convictions without Police or STOP involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 We did exactly what you suggested including photos of sled and Reg Number. location, date and time. Our very experienced OPP Snowmobile Officer said sorry, without us being able to positively identify the Operators in Court, he would not lay Charge, which I can fully understand. He said he followed up with both on telephone which we appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Brian. Trail Patrollers do not lay charges, they can't. Its up to the OPP officers to file the charge and call the Patrol as a witness. Sorry but maybe the officer, with upmost respect, should re-read the act, or fall back on the TPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 What was his error? We couldn't identify the Operators as he required us to do and which I agree with him. They were on crown Land, not private property. I know TP's can't lay charges for MVSA, that is my point. The Ontario government needs to amend the MVSA in whatever way necessary to ensure the Freeloaders don't become more frequent than presently exists. The present system is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 He should have been able to charge the owner as that is traceable through the reg # Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 He should have been able to charge the owner as that is traceable through the reg # Exactly.... they sometimes don't know every little part of the act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I repeat, they were on Crown Land, not private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 IIRC, on the back of the Notice of Trespass, it states something to the effect that trails on crown land are covered and the OFSC club is considered an agent for the Crown. I don't have the form handy so I can't quote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 That is something I have never heard mentioned before. If you are able to find that please post or PM me and I will forward to our OPP Snowmobile Officer. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Sounds like a very broken way of doing things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 OPP will not charge on crown land here. Its why we always set up on private land! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Has your Trail Patrollers laid Trespass Charges? Did they pay the fine or go to Court to dispute the charge? What was the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 How much is generated by fines? Double it, triple it; will it make enough of a difference to matter? Is it just about feeling because we got them now? I know that some who use the trails use them for working/surviving purposes, I say let them. If you're a rebel, weekend warrior; throw the book at them if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 How much is generated by fines? Double it, triple it; will it make enough of a difference to matter? Is it just about feeling because we got them now? I know that some who use the trails use them for working/surviving purposes, I say let them. If you're a rebel, weekend warrior; throw the book at them if you can. That's not how the justice system was designed to works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I repeat, they were on Crown Land, not private property. We have a section of trail on crown land. Special permission was required with no other motorized vehicles allowed. Our club are to act as agents for the crown and you must have a valid trail permit to access. Gates open and closed at beginning and end of season. We also have a lease agreement to have a Bailey bridge in place. Thankfully at a very resonable cost..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 We have a section of trail on crown land. Special permission was required with no other motorized vehicles allowed. Our club are to act as agents for the crown and you must have a valid trail permit to access. Gates open and closed at beginning and end of season. We also have a lease agreement to have a Bailey bridge in place. Thankfully at a very resonable cost..... Do you have a LUP for crown land Yukon? We don't have any crown land but every piece of municipal property we cross we have LUP's and the MSVA is enforceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowCanuck Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 On a slightly different track, I suspect that a good percentage of those without permits also don't have any current registration or active insurance?.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Do you have a LUP for crown land Yukon? We don't have any crown land but every piece of municipal property we cross we have LUP's and the MSVA is enforceable. Yes for the parcel of land and the bailey bridge. We have to gate the entrances and barricade the bridge in the off season. Take pictures with time stamp and send to MNR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Do you have a LUP for crown land Yukon? We don't have any crown land but every piece of municipal property we cross we have LUP's and the MSVA is enforceable. We too have crown land lup's and we have successfully prosecuted trail passes on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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