Doogirl69 Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Just wandering, who pays for enforcement on the privately owned 407 highway? The owner of the 407. They pay the OPP for the cop and car per hour just like a bar hires cops as bouncers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 IMO Why pay on the spot, go ahead and get charged. Unless it's a cop who ask for ID there is nothing that can be done. Can TP ask for your ID? If it get to court good luck IDing the person and the fine will be reduced anyway. Thats my take anyway. TP can ask you for anything they want, you have the right to refuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 My understanding is the TP must be able to ID the person in court. Owner can deny he was there. say cheese, take a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 say cheese, take a picture Careful with that one... I did some looking searching on that one. You can legally take anyone's picture outdoors however if they ask you to deleted it you must. This is also why places with video surveillance has to post signs about it, to make anything they record useful in court. As well it's illegal to take pictures of someone's vehicle license plate in Ontario. Now I'm sure both those don't apply if your doing it for evidence in a crime, but is trespassing a hard enought crime to warrant the OK for a picture. The way the courts seem to work sometimes, it wouldn't surprise me is a freeloader didn't realize this and try to flip it back in court to beat a charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Careful with that one... I did some looking searching on that one. You can legally take anyone's picture outdoors however if they ask you to deleted it you must. This is also why places with video surveillance has to post signs about it, to make anything they record useful in court. As well it's illegal to take pictures of someone's vehicle license plate in Ontario. Now I'm sure both those don't apply if your doing it for evidence in a crime, but is trespassing a hard enought crime to warrant the OK for a picture. The way the courts seem to work sometimes, it wouldn't surprise me is a freeloader didn't realize this and try to flip it back in court to beat a charge. They admitted my photograph of the guys license numbers in court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bsledding Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Careful with that one... I did some looking searching on that one. You can legally take anyone's picture outdoors however if they ask you to deleted it you must. This is also why places with video surveillance has to post signs about it, to make anything they record useful in court. As well it's illegal to take pictures of someone's vehicle license plate in Ontario. Now I'm sure both those don't apply if your doing it for evidence in a crime, but is trespassing a hard enought crime to warrant the OK for a picture. The way the courts seem to work sometimes, it wouldn't surprise me is a freeloader didn't realize this and try to flip it back in court to beat a charge. Add wording to the Assumption of Risk signs that are located near each trail head, and any other related literature. "Your photo may be taken by TP or OFSC trail enforcement officers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Add wording to the Assumption of Risk signs that are located near each trail head, and any other related literature. "Your photo may be taken by TP or OFSC trail enforcement officers? not needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 2, 2014 Share Posted November 2, 2014 Careful with that one... I did some looking searching on that one. You can legally take anyone's picture outdoors however if they ask you to deleted it you must. This is also why places with video surveillance has to post signs about it, to make anything they record useful in court. As well it's illegal to take pictures of someone's vehicle license plate in Ontario. Now I'm sure both those don't apply if your doing it for evidence in a crime, but is trespassing a hard enought crime to warrant the OK for a picture. The way the courts seem to work sometimes, it wouldn't surprise me is a freeloader didn't realize this and try to flip it back in court to beat a charge. can you find the law that this pertains to?? I have yet to find what you just wrote to be true I found I can access your past 3yr driving record for a fee But other than that I found nothing about taking picture of your license plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 We were told at our district meeting that the province would be changing the set fines for no permits for the 2016 season to $400.00 Much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 They admitted my photograph of the guys license numbers in courtYa sorry I may have mixed up what I was reading there, now that I looked at it again. It says for publishing photos, must be why Google Street View has to fuzz out all the plates on cars. I'll look for the posting surveillance one again. Because I have video cameras that watch my backyard as we have had an issues in the area with people stealing patio furniture and destroying fences and other things. And we had to post signs warning people about the cameras to make the videos legal in court should I ever need them. Some of the laws out there protect the criminal. Ever wonder why stores leave lights on at night? It's because if someone breaks in and get hurt, the owner of that store can be held responsible for it. Same as how a drunk can run off a trail at night on his seld and the family gets millions from the OFSC insurance plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Just wandering, who pays for enforcement on the privately owned 407 highway? You do, with each offense for which you are convicted. With respect to regular motor vehicle traffic enforcement on Ontario's roads, the enforcement pays for itself. The OPP enforces the Provincial Offenses Act violations and the convictions result in fines that return to the province. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You do, with each offense for which you are convicted. With respect to regular motor vehicle traffic enforcement on Ontario's roads, the enforcement pays for itself. The OPP enforces the Provincial Offenses Act violations and the convictions result in fines that return to the province. You know when I first read this I automatically called BS... But after thinking about, you might actually be right. Did a Google search but came up empty handed. However some quick math tells me it actually very believable. Average OPP makes around $85000 a year. Figure that becomes around $120,000 to pay benefits as well. Patrol car is sold by Dodge to them at almost zero profit but I've seen stories where the outfited cost is around $30,000, and they last 3-5 years. So say $10,000 a year to pay for the car and maybe another $10,000 in fuel and maintenance. So that's $140,000 a year. 125km/h will cost you $150, so if you work that math on a 20 day work month. That's less than 4 tickets a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 You know when I first read this I automatically called BS... But after thinking about, you might actually be right. Did a Google search but came up empty handed. However some quick math tells me it actually very believable. Average OPP makes around $85000 a year. Figure that becomes around $120,000 to pay benefits as well. Patrol car is sold by Dodge to them at almost zero profit but I've seen stories where the outfited cost is around $30,000, and they last 3-5 years. So say $10,000 a year to pay for the car and maybe another $10,000 in fuel and maintenance. So that's $140,000 a year. 125km/h will cost you $150, so if you work that math on a 20 day work month. That's less than 4 tickets a day. And there is not a car for every officer. The cars are used for more than one shift per day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You know when I first read this I automatically called BS... But after thinking about, you might actually be right. Did a Google search but came up empty handed. However some quick math tells me it actually very believable. Average OPP makes around $85000 a year. Figure that becomes around $120,000 to pay benefits as well. Patrol car is sold by Dodge to them at almost zero profit but I've seen stories where the outfited cost is around $30,000, and they last 3-5 years. So say $10,000 a year to pay for the car and maybe another $10,000 in fuel and maintenance. So that's $140,000 a year. 125km/h will cost you $150, so if you work that math on a 20 day work month. That's less than 4 tickets a day. where do you get $35,000 a yr to pay benefits???????? God I love when people make stuff up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Benefits for government employees vacation, medical, life insurance, pension, WCB, EiI and sick leave is 35-40% of base salary. Pension for firefighters and police for 2015 is 9% for pay up to $52,000 and 15.8% thereafter, equally paid by employer and employee. Average of 5-6 weeks vacation is another 10-12% minimum. Sick leave is also huge, especially for those paid out unused sick days at retirement but still looking at minimum of 3 weeks per year or another 5%. Need I go on, 35% is probably low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Still missing the point that fines are a huge money maker for the province. They collect them and the municipalities pay the policing costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 You know when I first read this I automatically called BS... But after thinking about, you might actually be right. Did a Google search but came up empty handed. However some quick math tells me it actually very believable. Average OPP makes around $85000 a year. Figure that becomes around $120,000 to pay benefits as well. Patrol car is sold by Dodge to them at almost zero profit but I've seen stories where the outfited cost is around $30,000, and they last 3-5 years. So say $10,000 a year to pay for the car and maybe another $10,000 in fuel and maintenance. So that's $140,000 a year. 125km/h will cost you $150, so if you work that math on a 20 day work month. That's less than 4 tickets a day. And don't forget the Victim Fine Surcharge. It tacks on an extra 20% for all POA offenses. It's supposed to go to victims and be revenue neutral, but like fuel taxes it just disappears. Not every cop issues enough tickets to pay for himself - not by a long shot - but the ones that are assigned to the highways, particularly the OPP Highway Rangers, easily pay for themselves plus some overhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 where do you get $35,000 a yr to pay benefits???????? God I love when people make stuff up For a municipal employee and OMERS pension, I too would have used $35k as the benefit value. It might not be dead on but it will be close enough for Dave's quick calculation.It's that big benefit package that makes companies and municipalities prefer to use existing employees on overtime, or contractors, for peaking work. OT and contractors look expensive but are cheaper overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Benefits for government employees vacation, medical, life insurance, pension, WCB, EiI and sick leave is 35-40% of base salary. Pension for firefighters and police for 2015 is 9% for pay up to $52,000 and 15.8% thereafter, equally paid by employer and employee. Average of 5-6 weeks vacation is another 10-12% minimum. Sick leave is also huge, especially for those paid out unused sick days at retirement but still looking at minimum of 3 weeks per year or another 5%. Need I go on, 35% is probably low. BS You are basing on the fact that every benefit is used to the full extent every single year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 where do you get $35,000 a yr to pay benefits???????? God I love when people make stuff up I add 50% to the salary for the actual cost of an employee. Employers have to pay into EI, CPP, Health, and benefits that you actually see. Paying someone $12 an hour is not where it ends... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 FB you just don't want to believe the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 where do you get $35,000 a yr to pay benefits???????? God I love when people make stuff up I said it was quick math..The human thing to say would have been, your 10k for benefits slows a little low, but even when corrected that's still less than 5 tickets a day... God I hate it when trolls nit pick and miss the real point... Haters will hate I guess. Still missing the point that fines are a huge money maker for the province. They collect them and the municipalities pay the policing costs. Bingo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 I add 50% to the salary for the actual cost of an employee. Employers have to pay into EI, CPP, Health, and benefits that you actually see. Paying someone $12 an hour is not where it ends... No it where they start using food banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I had to check to see what topic we were on. One and probably the best cost free is "Friends don't ride with friends who don't have a trail permit" Peer pressure. We hear they ride early , mid week to avoid stops but they eventually show up a "buddies garage" or a clubhouse or similar sled related git together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I said it was quick math..The human thing to say would have been, your 10k for benefits slows a little low, but even when corrected that's still less than 5 tickets a day... God I hate it when trolls nit pick and miss the real point... Haters will hate I guess. Bingo.. You are the one that is trolling Dweese , so don't be calling me a troll when it was you who went off topic with missinformation about the cost of a cop's salary BTW thanks for the personal attack and deflection The big problem here when fines are handed out by LEO who patrol the OFSC trails is NONE of the $$$$ goes back to the OFSC, thus the way some areas do it instead of fining people they give them X amount of days to get a permit thus the oFSC gets the much needed $$$ from said freeloader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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