Nith Valley Sledder Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 most are not challenging it. Most people can't afford to challenge the ticket. The cost to get a lawyer, travel to the jurisdiction, time off work makes the cost/benefit balance against you. Especially if you stand little chance of winning. The cops know what they are doing and likely have their butts well covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuyuna Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 If the speed limit is 50 and unlike the roads where the fine changes relative to 10 over, 15 over, 20 over etc. the fine is the same whether you ar 30 over or 70 over on the trail and you were the judge would you really care? If they were doing 75 in a 50 or 90 in a 50. Over is over. The fine is the same. Yup. not Freedom Sledder... No freedom here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskywizard Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 The speed limit is 50. Yes, it does not matter if you are doing 51 or 101, the fact remains that the Crown has to demonstrate exact proof of what speed you are going. "Over 50" does not cut it. Most don't get this because they are "fish in the barrel" and will find it easier to pay then fight exploitation when they see it. They don't realize that most cops in most jurisdictions aren't going after speeders. They are mainly enforcing insurance, licensing and trail permits. There is no such thing as 'exact'. Radar is not exact. That's why aircraft, and VASCAR and pacing are all used. Speeding is termed an "absolute liability offense". Most moving violations are like this. All the cop has to do is convince the JP that you were over the limit, by any amount at all. If he (the cop) testifies that he witnessed 2 sleds travelling at - let's say 80 - in a 50 zone, and verified that speed with a calibrated radar, both sledders will be convicted. You might get a reduced fine, but you will be convicted. There are few defenses that will work here. The defense of necessity might work, if you were speeding to save your life. You just have to show the JP that you were speeding home to dinner, and that if you are late again, your wife would kill you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 On March 7 we were stopped by 2 cops at the 700 and c130d, looked at the tags and numbers and waved us by. We were only doing 70 because we know that they are always on raillines doing radar so we take it easy. On the 3rd we were in Huntsville on the 88 in town we were pulled over by a cruiser, he felt the need to run our names. We were doing absolutely nothing wrong, maybe he though we had something to hide. I find this way more offensive than being pulled over for speeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 On the 3rd we were in Huntsville on the 88 in town we were pulled over by a cruiser, he felt the need to run our names. We were doing absolutely nothing wrong, maybe he though we had something to hide. holy crap, really ??!! Sorry, I don't want that to sound like I don't believe you, I believe you. But I can't believe what would possess him to do that !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 holy crap, really ??!! Sorry, I don't want that to sound like I don't believe you, I believe you. But I can't believe what would possess him to do that !! I felt like I was a teenager in Durham Region again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I felt like I was a teenager in Durham Region again remember durham cops having a 4 door 340 dart as a shadow car,they would roll into my hood every now & then.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I felt like I was a teenager in Durham Region again The flashlight through the fogged up windows into the back seat ?? tsk, tsk ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 They say that they caught two nsleds at the same time same speed with one gun ?I doubt it and the judge will too fact is police can charge you for speeding without a radar gun, they have training to judge by eye if you are going over the limity and can testify in court to it. The one sled on radar will not be a defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The flashlight through the fogged up windows into the back seat ?? tsk, tsk ! How do you know about this type of thing, STG? With which detachment were you employed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 How do you know about this type of thing, STG? With which detachment were you employed? I ran the mosquito fogger during the all nighter at the Muskoka Drive-In. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Was that from inside the car or outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dufftom Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I ran the mosquito fogger during the all nighter at the Muskoka Drive-In. That's not durham region.Windows do not fog up in durham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiagaraKev Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Update .... Ok all...I just spoke with Ontario Court of Justice in Parry Sound , for the ticket I received , if i wanted to fight it I ( our a representative ) would have to appear in court in Parry Sound. No phones calls etc etc . So... I'm paying the 110.00 and will be avoiding the area next season . ( sorry Sprucedale ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Update .... Ok all...I just spoke with Ontario Court of Justice in Parry Sound , for the ticket I received , if i wanted to fight it I ( our a representative ) would have to appear in court in Parry Sound. No phones calls etc etc . So... I'm paying the 110.00 and will be avoiding the area next season . ( sorry Sprucedale ) The cops that gave you the ticket are the S.A.V.E. team they are based out of North Bay better avoid there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b-bry Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 The cops that gave you the ticket are the S.A.V.E. team they are based out of North Bay better avoid there too. The have a website in case anyone wanted to get to know them better. On the topic of trail speed limits - the Ontario Snowmobile Act limits trail speeds to 50Kph with this exception: Municipality may prescribe different rate of speed (2) The council of a municipality may by by-law prescribe, (a) a lower rate of speed for motorized snow vehicles upon any highway or part thereof under its jurisdiction; and a higher or lower rate of speed for motorized snow vehicles upon a trail, public park or exhibition ground under its jurisdiction, than is prescribed in subsection (1). R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 14 (2). Based on this, a municipality could change the Seguin trail speed limit if it were motivated to do so. How about 60 kph or 70 kph? Would the OFSC support something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiagaraKev Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 WB I sense some attitude in your comment about North bay . From talking with other sledders..that Seguin radar " trap" seems to be a sore spot for many . I realize I was over the 50kmh limit..I get that ...(as a matter of fact if I had to sled all day with a max of 50 kmh I would not be taking part in the sport ) What bugs me is , I nor my buddy were riding in a reckless manor...we were on the right side of the trail ..in line..yes a little quick ...all my paperwork was up to date ...insurance..ownerships, trail permits yet the cop was a jerk... Funny now that I think of it ...didn't even ask if we had been drinking and that trail runs right from Sprucedale Hilton ... Anyway .....the ticket has been paid...I may still sled that way but probably not. I will continue ( like everyone else with an OFSC trail permit ) to exceed the 50kmh limit ( when I deem safe to do so) and if I am caught and given another ticket ...I just hope the officer has some sort of a pleasant personality ...makes all the difference in the world ( to me ). Cheers all...sled safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Here's a rail line in D9 which the speed limit has been reduced I guess by the municipality to slow riders down , I personally think doing 20km is alittle slow on a rail line as I have exceeded it on occasion . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiagaraKev Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 probably complaints from residents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 WB I sense some attitude in your comment about North bay . From talking with other sledders..that Seguin radar " trap" seems to be a sore spot for many . I realize I was over the 50kmh limit..I get that ...(as a matter of fact if I had to sled all day with a max of 50 kmh I would not be taking part in the sport ) What bugs me is , I nor my buddy were riding in a reckless manor...we were on the right side of the trail ..in line..yes a little quick ...all my paperwork was up to date ...insurance..ownerships, trail permits yet the cop was a jerk... Funny now that I think of it ...didn't even ask if we had been drinking and that trail runs right from Sprucedale Hilton ... Anyway .....the ticket has been paid...I may still sled that way but probably not. I will continue ( like everyone else with an OFSC trail permit ) to exceed the 50kmh limit ( when I deem safe to do so) and if I am caught and given another ticket ...I just hope the officer has some sort of a pleasant personality ...makes all the difference in the world ( to me ). Cheers all...sled safe NiagaraKev, most of us go over the limit at times, and nobody likes getting a ticket. So far I've not had the misfortune of a ticket, but when it happens I will pay it and carry on. Quite frankly I hope I am going quite fast, and not 55 kph when it happens. LOL The fact that the police officer you encountered near Sprucedale was less than diplomatic should not be a reflection of the Sprucedale area trails or businesses, in my opinion, because they have no control over the actions of the provincial police. I suspect it is unfortunate and disappointing for the struggling local area businesses, when authorities from elsewhere cause dissatisfaction on the part of visiting sledders like you and me. From what I've seen, the local businesses and clubs have been doing everything possible to cater to our needs. I understand you may be in the Gravenhurst and Bracebridge area this weekend, so I want to make sure you know that the OPP is notorious for checking sleds and handing out tickets on the D trail around Bracebridge. As a Snowcrest supporter, I wish it wasn't so, but it is out of our control. Happy trails, and it would be great to see you around the area this weekend! Maybe keep us posted on your Gravenhurst thread. Blake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 probably complaints from residents... Considering the proximity to the homes you are probably right. I wonder if it goes back up once you are clear of the homes. Slowing down sure beats the alternative of perhaps having the trail closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I ride the Seguin just about everytime I ride, my cottage is up there and Kirks Shell is where I fuel up, pretty much daily. I ride there alot. I'm almost always "north" of 50K ... sometimes considerably north, yet I've never been ticketed. Yes, Ive been stopped and talked to but to date it hasn't cost me. I can see both sides here. This trail HAS to be patrolled because there are those in our sport who ride beyond reasonable and have, and will continue to, hurt themselves and others. You dont have to go off this site to read evidence of that, and Ive personally witness the carnage .... Maybe some officers use this patrolling opportunity to grab cash, but I know a few of these guys and the ones I know are there to promote safe and respectful use of the trails. That includes the purchasing of permits, insurance, and of course, safe operation. I'd say that a high percentage of these guys are "good guys". Increased police or STOP patrols and radar may cause some to rethink their preferred riding location, but accidents, injuries or a death ... and the damning press that accompanies such events, would certainly be more damaging to the sport. On the flip side, although I wasn't there and dont know what transpired, I really feel for you and your buddy NiagaraKev. I've always been under the impression that the ticket would only apply to the lead sled. Ive never heard of the second or any other sled in the group getting ticketed (for the same offence). In fact, when I ride with my buddies, we always have an agreement that the group would split the leaders ticket. Gonna have to re-think this now. Space out more? ... flash the brake to warn those behind? This guy must have really been an azz, or for some reason, took a disliking to you. Maybe he was showing off for a new partner? Maybe he WAS the new guy trying to impress the senior officer? Either way, 2 tickets? That's just wrong, and it's too bad there wasn't a cost effective way to challenge the charge(s). (I smell a side business here for you WildBill, the snowmobilers division of X_Copper!). BTW ... raising the Sequin (rail sections) to 70? I'm all for it. Ive been behind those doing 50k and it seems SO SLOW... Respectfully ... MD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I got a warning in Phelpston in February for going 47 in a 20. I didn't notice the posted 20 signs. I was lucky because he was almost friendly, but still made his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiagaraKev Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks Blake.... I guess I was just venting ... Will be up at Hart of Muskoka Saturday morning and heading from there...will be with the girlfriend so the likelihood of a speeding ticket is low .. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NiagaraKev Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 Thanks for the input Mike ... I will get over it .. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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