SalemRene Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 With more and more trails closing each year from people riding on closed trails, damaging crops in fields etc. Has anyone or any club actually every successfully caught/ got a trespassing conviction for any of these individuals? When landowners sign there agreement with the clubs, the clubs then have the authority to act as a agent on there behalf. I know some police detachments are more proactive than others but what can be done to curb this bad trend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Impossible and impractical. There are still many riders out there who dont use the internet you know and sometimes your out on a big tour and run into rough patches. I met dues in Gogama who had ridden up from Kentucky once. How the heck could they possibly not ride some red if the conditions had changed mid trip or they got lost or they rode through a no net connection area or??? I dont ride with any phone or net access for instance and I know many others who dont either. The list goes on and on and its best to give people benefit of the doubt here imo that they are not maliciously abusing trails, more likely caught out in a bad spot. No one wants to ride dirt. Without net access it would be impossible to know when a zone is red unless its marked on the trails in real time. Conditions can change from yellow to red in hours pending weather. There are wayyyyyy too many variables in place to prevent any red trail use entirely but Im not out seeing abuses you mention either so theres that. I really only get out when its all green and conditions and timing are ideal. Cant see policing that being a good thing. Whats with all this police stuff lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atventure Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 What about the red trails that run on Crown Land and the clubs require packing to be done in the early season before they can send the groomers out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SalemRene Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 I can totally appreciate multi day circumstances, I’m more speaking of the guys riding on winter wheat with 1” or 2 “ ticking off farmers. I think the whole police thing lately is we are loosing trails and it’s a problem that’s not going away. Areas like Durham where there is so much road running now because landowners are done. There has to be something people can do to protect the interconnected trail system. I think this is more of a southern Ontario’s clubs problem then the north. Crown land, multi day trips isn’t what I am inquiring about...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Red is Red. It is the riders responsibility to know whats open and whats closed. If a club wanted people with sleds to pack trail for them they can advertise that on websites or FB. If I go to ride in Quebec it is my responsibility to know if the trails I'm going to ride are open or closed. Trail patrol can lay a Trespassing charge but there is a lot of time and cost involved to get a conviction. It seems that even the police don't really want to lay a Trespass charge from what I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperG Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 5 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Red is Red. It is the riders responsibility to know whats open and whats closed. If a club wanted people with sleds to pack trail for them they can advertise that on websites or FB. If I go to ride in Quebec it is my responsibility to know if the trails I'm going to ride are open or closed. Trail patrol can lay a Trespassing charge but there is a lot of time and cost involved to get a conviction. It seems that even the police don't really want to lay a Trespass charge from what I hear. thats the problem is when you lay trespass notification and give to the police, depending on the officer but most cases the officer doesnt want to waste their time with the trespass charge and wont pursue. Thats why we gotta get the govt to make the changes in the msva and bills 100 to allow Trail Patrol to be able to enforce the laws on our own trails like they do successfully and safely in quebec! As for clubs advertising packing on closed trails, clubs have to be careful as this could be a grey area that in the event of an accident the club could be held liable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Voyant Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 In my experience, support from our local OPP with respect to laying tresspass charges has been non-existent. Not worth the effort for the size of the fine we were told. Not as big of an issue as in the south. That's not to say that the OPP didn't deal with the problem spots themselves with a little stop and chat. I was, however, successful in obtaining charges on two seperate occasions for No Permit. (Young Frequent Flyers) Curious if anyone has used the OPP Citizen Self Reporting to try and a lay a Mischief-Damage to Property charge? Would this be applicable to a crop damage situation? Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 43 minutes ago, SuperG said: thats the problem is when you lay trespass notification and give to the police, depending on the officer but most cases the officer doesnt want to waste their time with the trespass charge and wont pursue. Thats why we gotta get the govt to make the changes in the msva and bills 100 to allow Trail Patrol to be able to enforce the laws on our own trails like they do successfully and safely in quebec! As for clubs advertising packing on closed trails, clubs have to be careful as this could be a grey area that in the event of an accident the club could be held liable. Absolutely correct, it works exceedingly well in Quebec, Trail Patrol fills in the information on infraction(s) and delivers to QPP who review and mail out the Tickets. What could be easier than that plus fines are sufficiently high to be a deterrent. Why the OFSC can’t convince provincial government to implement this change is beyond me, especially with Ford Conservative government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperG Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 50 minutes ago, Claire Voyant said: In my experience, support from our local OPP with respect to laying tresspass charges has been non-existent. Not worth the effort for the size of the fine we were told. Not as big of an issue as in the south. That's not to say that the OPP didn't deal with the problem spots themselves with a little stop and chat. I was, however, successful in obtaining charges on two seperate occasions for No Permit. (Young Frequent Flyers) Curious if anyone has used the OPP Citizen Self Reporting to try and a lay a Mischief-Damage to Property charge? Would this be applicable to a crop damage situation? Discuss. This is definitely worth looking into! 52 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: Absolutely correct, it works exceedingly well in Quebec, Trail Patrol fills in the information on infraction(s) and delivers to QPP who review and mail out the Tickets. What could be easier than that plus fines are sufficiently high to be a deterrent. Why the OFSC can’t convince provincial government to implement this change is beyond me, especially with Ford Conservative government. The ofsc wont do anything! ive sent various emails to the big exec director and to look at how well this works in quebec and bring it here to bring fourth to the legislature to make the changes as the opp wont support anything outside of them for enforcement. the more patrollers we get together to broach the ofsc on this the more traction we will get. ive also brought up why is the rider experience committee overlooking changes to OUR program when it should be a committee of active trail patrollers overlooking changes to OUR program. and big shock NOTHING on this, just the same ole same. yes some state some safety concerns with the odd rogue sledder when trying to do enforcement but i believe it we are getting more rogue sledders since the demise of stop program and that more and more of them know this as well that TP are mostly just walmart greeters now and less opp on our trails so that only PROMOTES that type of behaviour as they know they can get away with it and the opp mostly is to blame for this. the quebec TP dont have as many of these safety issues as many know they have the powers to enforce their trails and have the backing of both the federation and provincial police so word gets around and thus through that and more presence on their trails deters that kind of behaviour. ofsc should seriously look into this so those majority of patrollers that want the powers to enforce our trails can and those that dont want to dont have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Packing closed trails saved them from the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 OPP are patrolling the railbed at Markdale today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crow Posted January 27, 2019 Share Posted January 27, 2019 Met the OPP twice yesterday on the trail on sleds. Once when I was installing a map board at an intersection in the morning, and again later in the afternoon when I went for a short run. Had a chat with them. Told me in the morning that they had charged 3 riders for no permits. Glad to see them out there on sleds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 13 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: OPP are patrolling the railbed at Markdale today. Quick. Check their helmet straps. I think they are speeding don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baylaker Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 4:31 PM, zoso said: Packing closed trails saved them from the rain. Awesome tune! That just got my day started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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