revrnd Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I dropped by the OFSC office to pick up the district 16 & 17 maps that I didn't get @ the show. There is a 2011 map for Dist' 17, but unfortunately only a 8 1/2 x 11 colour "mapette" for Dist' 16. I was speaking w/ Jeff of the OFSC & he was saying that even though this version of the map shows D109A between Hemlo & Hillsport, it is closed. The online interactive trail guide doesn't show D109A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I dropped by the OFSC office to pick up the district 16 & 17 maps that I didn't get @ the show. There is a 2011 map for Dist' 17, but unfortunately only a 8 1/2 x 11 colour "mapette" for Dist' 16. I was speaking w/ Jeff of the OFSC & he was saying that even though this version of the map shows D109A between Hemlo & Hillsport, it is closed. The online interactive trail guide doesn't show D109A. There was a similar thread started about this here: The A107A will also not be open this season. We will as always be riding into Longlac to stay at Klotz Lake Camp. we're either going to find a place in town to keep the sleds and get a ride to Klotz or pay a couple of locals to break trail for us. Seems that the "touring" riding is becoming a thing of the past. I see the trails closing and think how fortunate I am that I was able to ride some of these great areas. Stay safe, have a great season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
700renegade Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've told more than one person that I think this is about the last year of the big loops up there in northern Ontario. You take the mills out of Dub / White River / SRF / Foleyet / Chapleau / etc and eventually the trails will cease to exist. It's too bad I never recorded a detailed GPS log of that A107A route for example. That would be a hoot to retrace that after a big snowfall even if it weren't officially there anymore. Does anyone have the latest on D109A, Manitowadge and Nipigon areas? A buddy wanted to ride around Superior again this year and I told him to forget it due to the T.Bay - Nipigon problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 About the biggest issue with wanting to run an old route is that if it has much of any trail that goes into the bush on a tight trail - you really can git turned around due to snow/ice-laden sapplings. Any true dead-fall isn't usually quite as bad as long as it isn't too big and is close to the ground. At least the first guy can make it over. Here is a favorite pic that shows how the sapplings are bowed into the trail after a heavy snow. This is on the D trail on the hydroline somewhere near Halfway Haven back in Dec '99. Also - we have been turned around due to down sapplings on the trail between Manitouwadge and Marathon many yrs ago where it dives into the trees for just a bit. We figgered that we could fight our way through as the length of that section was not long, but without chain saws it would have taken us all day with just hatchets. Same west of Gravel River on our way to Nippigon many yrs ago as well. Also spent much time going around large trees knocked down by the heavy wet snow in spring of '08 on the Domtar, which is a major artery for trucks and quite wide. However - the fishermen behind us had a much easier time navigating their way to the lakes. Glad we could "Take one for the team". Now don't think for a minute that means that I don't wonder into untracked snow enymore! Just a note for those of you who don't, and those of you who have plans and don't like to amend them as you go. Think Snow Eh! Ox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 I don't think the A107A would be that bad as most of the time it's running on the pipeline cut. Is this an easement on Crown Land? I could see where TOP D would be a different story w/ the VERY rugged terrain it goes thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ox Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Yeah - most of that run is on the pipeline. If the signs are still up it should be easy to follow most of the way. I know that A jumps around a bit, I don't recall if 107A does or not. ??? Either way - there are short sections here/there that likely go into the bush in spots. I kant seperate 107A and A in my memmory as they are all on the pipeline. I would just hate to know that someone was breaking trail through there and not counting on an impassable section. But it's most always near the hwy, so I guess you could bugger out to 11 and run that for a klick or two around a problem section. Also - the HWY shirley offers a great deal of security in case of dissaster. Sometimes it is off the hwy far enough to be a major feat to hike to in deep snow. (maybe a klick at times?) Also keep in mind of the extra fuel needed to "break trail". When we doo this we have about 20 gallons each! I know one crew that did not account for this and almost lost life or limb in some cold temps. They were all very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Akron, You cheer for Ontario sledding like Canadians cheered for Hockey in Buffalo (the press misconstrued our presence as only cheering for Canada. We were there to cheer for all teams (Who else 'filled' the seats for Czech vs. Finland?). Akron (from the U.S.) is a booster of sledding in Northern Ontario and is trying to open our eyes to a resource (carefully planned and maintained trails) we are about to lose. Anyhow, that's my roundabout way of saying thanks for opening my eyes to the issue up there. Time for sledders to make some serious decisions about how to fund trails, and the REAL cost if we lost those trails. Think I'm going to keep investing in 'current' sleds, when those trails close? No - I'll buy a Classic permit for one sled and ride from my cottage to my friend's cottage, and back. Why would I need a state of the art machine for 6 weeks of southern Ontario sledding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 8, 2011 Author Share Posted January 8, 2011 Ox, we had to jump onto 11 east of Klotz lake to get around a creek that hadn't frozen & didn't offer a good way to cross. We knew about the issue so we were prepared (Thanks to the posts here on OC). The truckers that went by must've thought were were insane as we were somewhere between Longlac & Pagwa. I had driven thru there back in the 90s & that part of the province is "The Middle of Nowhere". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Akron, You cheer for Ontario sledding like Canadians cheered for Hockey in Buffalo (the press misconstrued our presence as only cheering for Canada. We were there to cheer for all teams (Who else 'filled' the seats for Czech vs. Finland?). Akron (from the U.S.) is a booster of sledding in Northern Ontario and is trying to open our eyes to a resource (carefully planned and maintained trails) we are about to lose. Anyhow, that's my roundabout way of saying thanks for opening my eyes to the issue up there. Time for sledders to make some serious decisions about how to fund trails, and the REAL cost if we lost those trails. Think I'm going to keep investing in 'current' sleds, when those trails close? No - I'll buy a Classic permit for one sled and ride from my cottage to my friend's cottage, and back. Why would I need a state of the art machine for 6 weeks of southern Ontario sledding? Canuck, Thanks for the kind words. I truly enjoy the sport and all of the people I meet. Sometimes I might cause a bit of trouble, but it is because I care about the trails. It's true I have a bias for the north, I like to root for the underdog (not in Canada - Russia hockey games), the businesses in the north don't want us to visit - they need for us to visit. As was mentioned in another thread, jobs in the north have left the area, it's not that these people don't want to help, they can't, or they've left. I think it's up to the rest of us (if I my be so bold) to help anyway we can. Anytime a trail closes reduces our ability to help and in a small way encourages locals to leave. To answer the question from another post in this thread: The A107A runs the pipeline and crosses the highway several times along the way. There were not too many OFSC signs on the trail as I recall, but there were some stakes marking the way. The trail never runs too far off the highway but a 1 click hike through deep snow in -30 could be a problem. If memory serves correct, it about 90 miles from Klotz to Calstock. Please post if you're going to break trail. Hope to see some of you on the trail soon. Have a safe season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 There were not too many OFSC signs on the trail as I recall, but there were some stakes marking the way. The trail never runs too far off the highway but a 1 click hike through deep snow in -30 could be a problem. The morning we ran TOP D from the M'wadge turnoff to White River it was snowing. It had been a while since the trail was groomed, so it was hard to follow. We got stuck once, but didn't have to take any detours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Akron, You cheer for Ontario sledding like Canadians cheered for Hockey in Buffalo (the press misconstrued our presence as only cheering for Canada. We were there to cheer for all teams (Who else 'filled' the seats for Czech vs. Finland?). Akron (from the U.S.) is a booster of sledding in Northern Ontario and is trying to open our eyes to a resource (carefully planned and maintained trails) we are about to lose. Anyhow, that's my roundabout way of saying thanks for opening my eyes to the issue up there. Time for sledders to make some serious decisions about how to fund trails, and the REAL cost if we lost those trails. Think I'm going to keep investing in 'current' sleds, when those trails close? No - I'll buy a Classic permit for one sled and ride from my cottage to my friend's cottage, and back. Why would I need a state of the art machine for 6 weeks of southern Ontario sledding? I'm glad to see you are seeing the big picture, we can only hope that more do. Some people think they know,but they really don't and they post misconceptions on their lack of real life experiences. We can only hope the matrix will change and help these areas,as they are just as vital as any other area is to the existence of the O.F.S.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowberg Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Akron Orange and I ride together all over Northern Ontario, in fact I don't think there is a trail up there that we haven't ridden. I hear every word he has said, unfortunately, OFSC has not Every year die hard sledders have been sending the same message to them "Funding needs to change" . It sure is depressing to know that OFSC has the ability to make a difference but refuse to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainX Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Akron Orange and I ride together all over Northern Ontario, in fact I don't think there is a trail up there that we haven't ridden. I hear every word he has said, unfortunately, OFSC has not Every year die hard sledders have been sending the same message to them "Funding needs to change" . It sure is depressing to know that OFSC has the ability to make a difference but refuse to listen. Hmmm. Harsh. I disagree personally. There is more information available to dispute the story presented. However, not looking for an arguement. Have a great sledding season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Hmmm. Harsh. I disagree personally. There is more information available to dispute the story presented. However, not looking for an arguement. Have a great sledding season. Not looking for an argument either, I am interested in hearing the other side of the story. My position is, and always has been to maintain the system, keep it in tact. I do not profess to have the solution, I do think that trail funding and responsibilitits need to be dynamic like the trails and the economies are within the province. Have a safe season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowberg Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hmmm. Harsh. I disagree personally. There is more information available to dispute the story presented. However, not looking for an argument. Have a great sledding season. RainX, I would be thrilled if you can supply me the information that no one else has, discussion not an argument! Help me and others like me understand why rural areas should not get additional funding to help keep the trails we have, the equipment upgraded, maintenance, and grooming expenses funded, over and above the highly populated areas of southern Ontario. Lets be realistic, most of the northern clubs don't/can't sell enough permits to support these ever increasing expenses on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 RainX, I would be thrilled if you can supply me the information that no one else has, discussion not an argument! Help me and others like me understand why rural areas should not get additional funding to help keep the trails we have, the equipment upgraded, maintenance, and grooming expenses funded, over and above the highly populated areas of southern Ontario. Lets be realistic, most of the northern clubs don't/can't sell enough permits to support these ever increasing expenses on their own. Then perhaps they need to do a little trail rationalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainX Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 RainX, I would be thrilled if you can supply me the information that no one else has, discussion not an argument! Help me and others like me understand why rural areas should not get additional funding to help keep the trails we have, the equipment upgraded, maintenance, and grooming expenses funded, over and above the highly populated areas of southern Ontario. Lets be realistic, most of the northern clubs don't/can't sell enough permits to support these ever increasing expenses on their own. It would be best for the D16 representatives to explain their position, not someone who is not involved in their District or club meetings. I will say that I am all for a Provincial trail network. I will also say that as the OFSC is a user pay organization, it does not mean that everyone can afford to have what they want. Realastic does not preclude a trail system should be in place for a handfull of folks who use it - that is not self sustaining. Again, I am very familiar with the riding areas you frequent a couple of times a year, and I am sure the local economy thanks you. I am also familiar with other great (yes, better even) rural areas of the Province where they do more with the same or less money. That too is reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 It would be best for the D16 representatives to explain their position, not someone who is not involved in their District or club meetings. I will say that I am all for a Provincial trail network. I will also say that as the OFSC is a user pay organization, it does not mean that everyone can afford to have what they want. Realastic does not preclude a trail system should be in place for a handfull of folks who use it - that is not self sustaining. Again, I am very familiar with the riding areas you frequent a couple of times a year, and I am sure the local economy thanks you. I am also familiar with other great (yes, better even) rural areas of the Province where they do more with the same or less money. That too is reality. I do understand and, agree to some extent. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", I get it. I do think this is a bit different, let's take the old A107A trail, about 100 miles of trail that is very difficult to groom; could the Hearst club help, could D'Ville help, could OFSC help a little? I don't know, that's why I think the funding needs to be dynamic. It's too bad when each one of us only looks out for ourselves and don't truly realize the big picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainX Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I do understand and, agree to some extent. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few", I get it. I do think this is a bit different, let's take the old A107A trail, about 100 miles of trail that is very difficult to groom; could the Hearst club help, could D'Ville help, could OFSC help a little? I don't know, that's why I think the funding needs to be dynamic. It's too bad when each one of us only looks out for ourselves and don't truly realize the big picture. The big picture is keeping trails open for less than 100 trail permitted sleds per year to use? I don't know, but I do know user pay does not support it. FYI - Hearst did look after half of the A107A. The problem was not the Hearst....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Then perhaps they need to do a little trail rationalization. What trail rationalization? In most cases, there is... I mean, WAS only the TOP trail thruogh most of our district. Thanks, Akron Orange and Snowberg for trying to help the North's cause. I hope we still have trails for you guys to use! BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronOrange Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 The big picture is keeping trails open for less than 100 trail permitted sleds per year to use? I don't know, but I do know user pay does not support it. FYI - Hearst did look after half of the A107A. The problem was not the Hearst....... Give me a little credit; I know that Hearst maintained the trail to the Pagwa Bridge. I also know that most of the challenges with the A107A are in the District 16 portion, Peanut Creek for example has always been a challenge. I also know that the A107A reroute 2 years ago eliminated some of the hazards. Do you think that Hearst might have been able to groom to Klotz Lake? I'll go a step further; do you think that a plan could have been put in place where groomer operators were changed at Pagwa? The groomers are now equipped with GPS so arrival at Pagwa would be known. I know that the proprietors at Klotz open their facility to those helping with trail maintenance. All of this added responsibility should not fall solely on the Hearst club, that's where the OFSC comes in. That is what I mean by "dynamic". BTW - the same could be true of the D109 Ride Safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowberg Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hmmm. Harsh. I disagree personally. There is more information available to dispute the story presented. However, not looking for an arguement. Have a great sledding season. It would be best for the D16 representatives to explain their position, not someone who is not involved in their District or club meetings. I will say that I am all for a Provincial trail network. I will also say that as the OFSC is a user pay organization, it does not mean that everyone can afford to have what they want. Realastic does not preclude a trail system should be in place for a handfull of folks who use it - that is not self sustaining. Again, I am very familiar with the riding areas you frequent a couple of times a year, and I am sure the local economy thanks you. I am also familiar with other great (yes, better even) rural areas of the Province where they do more with the same or less money. That too is reality. Well RainX our "couple times a year" adds up to about 3,400 km and we have talked to some of the "D16 representatives to explain their position" which brings me back to my original "harsh" statement "It sure is depressing to know that OFSC has the ability to make a difference but refuses to listen" so I would say we have a general idea of the plight before the many volunteers who work so hard and their clubs get much less than they should. I was really hoping you would be able to justify your disagreement for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 It's too bad that D109A was closed. There had been a lot of work done to the trail north of Manitouwadge. South of town, the trail appeared to be on mostly unused logging & mining roads. Was it not the OFSC in fact that proposed the TOP trail system across the province using "local" trails. My 1st trip north was in 2000 & there was a multitude of touring riders. At the time, the economy of northern Ontario had not suffered due to the US softwood quotas and/or the conomic downturn. Now w/ reduced or non-existant volunteers to maintain the trails & few "local" permit buyers (if there ever was a large number), the OFSC will have to take a hard look @ the TOP trail network in northern Ontario. However, if loops are not maintained, touring sledders will avoid locations that are on a dead end trail. Resulting in less traffic & fewer paying visitors (a vicious circle). It wasn't my intention to stir things up w/ my intial post, but @ least we've all been able to express our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 What trail rationalization? In most cases, there is... I mean, WAS only the TOP trail thruogh most of our district. Thanks, Akron Orange and Snowberg for trying to help the North's cause. I hope we still have trails for you guys to use! BP Its when you need to justify the existance of certain trails because you don't have enough paying riders to keep them open. Such as what is happening in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Its when you need to justify the existance of certain trails because you don't have enough paying riders to keep them open. Such as what is happening in the north. I think that's what this whole thread is about, isn't it? District 16, or large chunks of it are closed. My point was that it's hard to rationalize (i.e. downsize) your trails if the club only has one... The TOP trail. On a positive note. Had an awesome 90 mile ride in mostly untouched powder on the local logging roads, Pipeline, Hydro Line and old rail line today. Sweet! First major run this year, and it felt good! Happy Trails (or lack thereof)! BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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