Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 A trail permit is like anything else. It's only worth the price if you use it. If you buy a permit and don't get out on the trails , you could say that you wasted your money and it wasn't worth it . If you purchase a trail permit and ride the trails all winter it was money well spent. Just like buying a ATV or truck if it sits in your garage all year it was a waste of money reguardless what you paid for it IMO. I wouldn't believe anything on the OFSC website expecially there numbers. They are just like the government, mantipulate the numbers to make it look like whatever is going to benefit them that month or year.. Be sure to let us know when you expose these "manipulated" numbers, obviously you have proof to make such a claim Nutter you admitted on here that the numbers were merely a snapshot of what was really going on. So which is it? The number are real or fake? Which fence are you sitting on now? Snap shot - Manipulated, do they mean the same thing in your dictionary casue they don't in mine .... UTS I think you should consider getting of your fence cause it's falling down fast You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... See ya's on the trails ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 A trail permit is like anything else. It's only worth the price if you use it. If you buy a permit and don't get out on the trails , you could say that you wasted your money and it wasn't worth it . If you purchase a trail permit and ride the trails all winter it was money well spent. Just like buying a ATV or truck if it sits in your garage all year it was a waste of money reguardless what you paid for it IMO. I wouldn't believe anything on the OFSC website expecially there numbers. They are just like the government, mantipulate the numbers to make it look like whatever is going to benefit them that month or year.. Be sure to let us know when you expose these "manipulated" numbers, obviously you have proof to make such a claim Nutter you admitted on here that the numbers were merely a snapshot of what was really going on. So which is it? The number are real or fake? Which fence are you sitting on now? Snap shot - Manipulated, do they mean the same thing in your dictionary casue they don't in mine .... UTS I think you should consider getting of your fence cause it's falling down fast You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... See ya's on the trails ........ Nutter, Please dont mistake my words on here for personal vendetta's or insults. For you to leave here just because we disagree is silly. I admire the work you do and the dedication to the sport and believe that you are an asset. That being said, these discussions do nothing but good for the sport and right or wrong we all care about the sport. I'm married but does that mean we get along all the time? nope! Definitely not! But this does mean that we do care about the same things because if we dont care then we dont argue now do we? BTW- Im not looking to win, just looking to question, understand, learn and action. I believe these are all things necessary to evolve and advance in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... You have reminded me of an old joke: If you ask how to do X in Linux, you will never receive a response. If you say Linux sucks because it does not do X, you will receive hundreds of replies on how to do X. It is the nature of the internet that you throw out the most ridiculous statement in order to receive the intended reply. Someone stating misrepresentation of facts is the only reason these very interesting discussions got going in the first place. It is a shame to hear you are going to leave over the exact same thing that brought you here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 A trail permit is like anything else. It's only worth the price if you use it. If you buy a permit and don't get out on the trails , you could say that you wasted your money and it wasn't worth it . If you purchase a trail permit and ride the trails all winter it was money well spent. Just like buying a ATV or truck if it sits in your garage all year it was a waste of money reguardless what you paid for it IMO. I wouldn't believe anything on the OFSC website expecially there numbers. They are just like the government, mantipulate the numbers to make it look like whatever is going to benefit them that month or year.. Be sure to let us know when you expose these "manipulated" numbers, obviously you have proof to make such a claim Nutter you admitted on here that the numbers were merely a snapshot of what was really going on. So which is it? The number are real or fake? Which fence are you sitting on now? Snap shot - Manipulated, do they mean the same thing in your dictionary casue they don't in mine .... UTS I think you should consider getting of your fence cause it's falling down fast You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... See ya's on the trails ........ Nutter, Please dont mistake my words on here for personal vendetta's or insults. For you to leave here just because we disagree is silly. I admire the work you do and the dedication to the sport and believe that you are an asset. That being said, these discussions do nothing but good for the sport and right or wrong we all care about the sport. I'm married but does that mean we get along all the time? nope! Definitely not! But this does mean that we do care about the same things because if we dont care then we dont argue now do we? BTW- Im not looking to win, just looking to question, understand, learn and action. I believe these are all things necessary to evolve and advance in this world. UTS I enjoy coming on here and sharing my time, about my knowledge and opinions about trails, clubs, riding events and anything to do with the OFSC and sledding in general, whether they are agreed upon or not. But don't enjoy it when people twist what I say to further their own side of an argument, and I certainly don't like being chastised in a condescending manor about how you feel I hold myself higher than anyone else only because I share my point of view through the eyes of a volunteer, when we are talking about a volunteer run organization. It's kinda like when I'm out riding and I stop to check over a bridge I helped build, and some asshat stops and says, what a shitty bridge it should of been done this way or that way .... do I feel I should have to engage in conversation with him ? Not if he's going to keep discounting the opinion and explanation of why it was built the way it was, by me one of the bridge builders, over his own opinion when he did not help build that bridge. Fine if he feels his permit dollars are what put that bridge there, thats opinion that he's intitled to, but it doesn't mean I have to keep listening to him and explaining. (even if the lumber that built that bridge was donated by a club sponsor that I solicited). Till the snow flys .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 A trail permit is like anything else. It's only worth the price if you use it. If you buy a permit and don't get out on the trails , you could say that you wasted your money and it wasn't worth it . If you purchase a trail permit and ride the trails all winter it was money well spent. Just like buying a ATV or truck if it sits in your garage all year it was a waste of money reguardless what you paid for it IMO. I wouldn't believe anything on the OFSC website expecially there numbers. They are just like the government, mantipulate the numbers to make it look like whatever is going to benefit them that month or year.. Be sure to let us know when you expose these "manipulated" numbers, obviously you have proof to make such a claim Nutter you admitted on here that the numbers were merely a snapshot of what was really going on. So which is it? The number are real or fake? Which fence are you sitting on now? Snap shot - Manipulated, do they mean the same thing in your dictionary casue they don't in mine .... UTS I think you should consider getting of your fence cause it's falling down fast You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... See ya's on the trails ........ Nutter, Please dont mistake my words on here for personal vendetta's or insults. For you to leave here just because we disagree is silly. I admire the work you do and the dedication to the sport and believe that you are an asset. That being said, these discussions do nothing but good for the sport and right or wrong we all care about the sport. I'm married but does that mean we get along all the time? nope! Definitely not! But this does mean that we do care about the same things because if we dont care then we dont argue now do we? BTW- Im not looking to win, just looking to question, understand, learn and action. I believe these are all things necessary to evolve and advance in this world. UTS I enjoy coming on here and sharing my time, about my knowledge and opinions about trails, clubs, riding events and anything to do with the OFSC and sledding in general, whether they are agreed upon or not. But don't enjoy it when people twist what I say to further their own side of an argument, and I certainly don't like being chastised in a condescending manor about how you feel I hold myself higher than anyone else only because I share my point of view through the eyes of a volunteer, when we are talking about a volunteer run organization. It's kinda like when I'm out riding and I stop to check over a bridge I helped build, and some asshat stops and says, what a shitty bridge it should of been done this way or that way .... do I feel I should have to engage in conversation with him ? Not if he's going to keep discounting the opinion and explanation of why it was built the way it was, by me one of the bridge builders, over his own opinion when he did not help build that bridge. Till the snow flys .... Hey Nutter I have a couple of things to say First of all thank god that we are Canadian and can speak our mind ! It is what our ancestors fought and died for ! The OFSC is not always right . The opportunity to make a difference was likely at the AGM Thank you and all volunteers for believing and trying to do our best . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... You have reminded me of an old joke: If you ask how to do X in Linux, you will never receive a response. If you say Linux sucks because it does not do X, you will receive hundreds of replies on how to do X. It is the nature of the internet that you throw out the most ridiculous statement in order to receive the intended reply. Someone stating misrepresentation of facts is the only reason these very interesting discussions got going in the first place. It is a shame to hear you are going to leave over the exact same thing that brought you here in the first place. Not leaving the site, I'm just going to stop reply to threads with posts of this nature ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 A trail permit is like anything else. It's only worth the price if you use it. If you buy a permit and don't get out on the trails , you could say that you wasted your money and it wasn't worth it . If you purchase a trail permit and ride the trails all winter it was money well spent. Just like buying a ATV or truck if it sits in your garage all year it was a waste of money reguardless what you paid for it IMO. I wouldn't believe anything on the OFSC website expecially there numbers. They are just like the government, mantipulate the numbers to make it look like whatever is going to benefit them that month or year.. Be sure to let us know when you expose these "manipulated" numbers, obviously you have proof to make such a claim Nutter you admitted on here that the numbers were merely a snapshot of what was really going on. So which is it? The number are real or fake? Which fence are you sitting on now? Snap shot - Manipulated, do they mean the same thing in your dictionary casue they don't in mine .... UTS I think you should consider getting of your fence cause it's falling down fast You win UTS, I'll bow out just like Timberliner did, no reason for me to be here to tell OC readers the facts of the OFSC. Your speculation from your point of view (where ever that may come from) will have to be what OC readers here go by ... See ya's on the trails ........ Nutter, Please dont mistake my words on here for personal vendetta's or insults. For you to leave here just because we disagree is silly. I admire the work you do and the dedication to the sport and believe that you are an asset. That being said, these discussions do nothing but good for the sport and right or wrong we all care about the sport. I'm married but does that mean we get along all the time? nope! Definitely not! But this does mean that we do care about the same things because if we dont care then we dont argue now do we? BTW- Im not looking to win, just looking to question, understand, learn and action. I believe these are all things necessary to evolve and advance in this world. UTS I enjoy coming on here and sharing my time, about my knowledge and opinions about trails, clubs, riding events and anything to do with the OFSC and sledding in general, whether they are agreed upon or not. But don't enjoy it when people twist what I say to further their own side of an argument, and I certainly don't like being chastised in a condescending manor about how you feel I hold myself higher than anyone else only because I share my point of view through the eyes of a volunteer, when we are talking about a volunteer run organization. It's kinda like when I'm out riding and I stop to check over a bridge I helped build, and some asshat stops and says, what a shitty bridge it should of been done this way or that way .... do I feel I should have to engage in conversation with him ? Not if he's going to keep discounting the opinion and explanation of why it was built the way it was, by me one of the bridge builders, over his own opinion when he did not help build that bridge. Till the snow flys .... Hey Nutter I have a couple of things to say First of all thank god that we are Canadian and can speak our mind ! It is what our ancestors fought and died for ! The OFSC is not always right . The opportunity to make a difference was likely at the AGM Thank you and all volunteers for believing and trying to do our best . Spot on to the last three points Bill As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Agreed but OC does have it's limits of freedom of speech doesn't it ? Ever read my posts over on Freeedom sledder when I really get back up .... I even scare myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Agreed but OC does have it's limits of freedom of speech doesn't it ? As most parts of polite society do and should . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Agreed but OC does have it's limits of freedom of speech doesn't it ? Ever read my posts over on Freeedom sledder when I really get back up .... I even scare myself Not true about the banning! The only people who get banned are those that bash the OC...............and Rick's ex wife! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Agreed but OC does have it's limits of freedom of speech doesn't it ? Ever read my posts over on Freeedom sledder when I really get back up .... I even scare myself People express themselves here. The only bannings have been people attacking others in a malicious way. I agree, we are not freedom sledder, for that I am thankful. However we are not Dootalk either which has been accused of over moderation (From what I have read, I like Dootalk personally). I think if we all keep in mind that there are young sledders that read this site, and post accordingly, a good debate, even a heated good debate is welcomed and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 [ I find most of the ruts on or before hills, around corners and generally everywhere we would need extra throttle to negotiate an obstacle. Very rarely do we see straight stretches with large massive bumps. Now dont get me wrong I know that there are some idiots who spin their tracks mercilessly but I also know that a lot of people dont use momentum but throttle to get them over or around an obstacle. And lets face it, 50 km/hr on some trails is absolutely ridiculous. I guess it can be different in different areas. I fully understand getting around an obstacle a hill or ice. Time and time again it seems that so many love to come up to a bend or corner and hit the throttle so that the back end can slide out side ways and shoot up a pile of snow. I guess it makes them feel cool. I would fully support variable speed limits. There are spots where it is almost impossible to go above a crawl and others where it is flat smooth and straight ahead. There is one field outside of Coldwater where it is also quite wide. Having come off a lot of twisty turns people tend to go rather quickly. The ones I have issue with are the ones who just love to spin the track for the heck of it. Coming back from Wasaga there is a nice long trail that should be flat and smooth and straight. Every time we head out in the morning it is. Coming back in the afternoon... buy a back brace and or stand the whole trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Interesting comparison, teener...a different but equally valid way to compare permit "value." And UTS, if I recall correctly, Michigan has approximately the same number of (or slightly more) registered sleds as Ontario, for a trail system which is, according to teener's numbers above, only a fraction of the size of OFSC's. Thus our sled density on an overall system basis is far less crowded, which is one key indicator that we are better off, despite the big difference in permit price. Of course, that's only IMHO. what you are not taking into consideration for the numbers, is Michigan is also home for riders from,Indiana,Wisconsin,Ohio,Western New York,Western Pennylvania,Illinois and even West Virginia,they have all been pushed north due to the snow belt moving north. I ride in the U.P. on a mon and see more sleds then Dorset on a busy Sat.Fact is I never rode the trails on the weekends,period.Boondock only.But this economic down turn has created ghost towns,,, What do you know about about the Mi trail system anyways in the past I knew that when the trail got ruff you were on one,,,, and was time to bail,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 The ones I have issue with are the ones who just love to spin the track for the heck of it. Coming back from Wasaga there is a nice long trail that should be flat and smooth and straight. Every time we head out in the morning it is. Coming back in the afternoon... buy a back brace and or stand the whole trip. Or buy a SKi-doo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. your numbers are a bit off,,,,,30 deep is a bad mon,,, I remember a guy on here waiting an hour for gas in Grand Marais,,,and was lucky to get it before they ran out,,,,but that has oh so changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Slow down, use common sense, and if everyone bought a permit that has a sled the costs would go down. Michigan requires all sleds to have a sticker,,,unless,,,Snowmobiles are exempt from the Trail Permit Sticker if they are: Operated exclusively on lands owned or under the control of the owner, used entirely in a safety education program conducted by a certified snowmobile safety instructor, exclusively operated in a special event of limited duration which is conducted according to a prearranged schedule under a permit from the governmental unit having proper jurisdiction or a snowmobile used solely for transportation on the frozen surface of public waters for the purpose of ice fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! STG, I trust you've duly noted my discipline and restraint in not taking Mossy's cue on this subject... The therapy has finally helped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! STG, I trust you've duly noted my discipline and restraint in not taking Mossy's cue on this subject... The therapy has finally helped... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see how long that lasts. :P :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! STG, I trust you've duly noted my discipline and restraint in not taking Mossy's cue on this subject... The therapy has finally helped... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see how long that lasts. :P :P At least until the medication wears off... :poke: [NICE!...that's the thanks I get for behaving myself???...] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! STG, I trust you've duly noted my discipline and restraint in not taking Mossy's cue on this subject... The therapy has finally helped... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see how long that lasts. :P :P At least until the medication wears off... :poke: [NICE!...that's the thanks I get for behaving myself???...] Ok, ok, I'll tell the midgets they have to wear soft spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. You obviously haven't been on the trail behind the SlowTouringGuy. 30 is nothing; a meshugener like me you've never followed ! ISLAGIATT!!!!!!!!!! STG, I trust you've duly noted my discipline and restraint in not taking Mossy's cue on this subject... The therapy has finally helped... Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see how long that lasts. :P :P At least until the medication wears off... :poke: [NICE!...that's the thanks I get for behaving myself???...] Ok, ok, I'll tell the midgets they have to wear soft spikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariof7 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 From what I've heard about US trails, you can be lined up 30 deep at a stop sign - so many sledders out on weekends.Our trails are 'busy' if we we're stuck between a couple of groups. Imagine pulling up to a stop sign with all those sleds waiting to get through. ______________________ As for 'price of permit', still the best bang for the buck. your numbers are a bit off,,,,,30 deep is a bad mon,,, I remember a guy on here waiting an hour for gas in Grand Marais,,,and was lucky to get it before they ran out,,,,but that has oh so changed. I was thinking the very samething, oh what a wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ontariof7 Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 As for speaking of our minds part, if I did that here I'd be banned in seconds I doubt it, this isn't Dootalk Agreed but OC does have it's limits of freedom of speech doesn't it ? Ever read my posts over on Freeedom sledder when I really get back up .... I even scare myself People express themselves here. The only bannings have been people attacking others in a malicious way. I agree, we are not freedom sledder, for that I am thankful. However we are not Dootalk either which has been accused of over moderation (From what I have read, I like Dootalk personally). I think if we all keep in mind that there are young sledders that read this site, and post accordingly, a good debate, even a heated good debate is welcomed and informative. And here I read; " people expose themselves here" my bad, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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