Yukon Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 14SNOW -I was just on Snowcrest #5, it was in very poor condition, not even a pre-season run with the small groomer. I have supported Snowcrest for 11 years, yet after last year I had no choice but to buy from Snowbombers....Snowcrest should join back into the MSR....since Anthony Janssen left as the "tail boss"....the club has gone to crap...sorry but true. Just my comments.... Leaving the MSR was the choice of the club itself , and was voted on . Had you been still involved with the club and made a motion at the AGM perhaps your voice could have been heard . Having said that the MSR is a grooming association , they have know say what so ever on how a club is run or organized , it's the volunteers/members within those clubs . Take Hill and Gully riders for example , one of the better clubs in District 7 thay have never been a part of the MSR and very rarely do you here a complaint from anyone . It all comes down to management which is our club Executives and positions to make the changes / decisions for club members . In my opinion , Grooming associations have their Pros and Cons just like any other association . Snowcrest Riders made the decision to go independant and IMO have made a great step , with the full support of district 7 . Other clubs may follow suit , that is upto a vote to decide . My opinion only ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nappy99 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Nappy99Thank you for your past support. You are entitled to your opinion and choice of where to purchase your permit. I too have been a permit buyer for years from Snowcrest, they are my home club. I decided to get involved with the club directly because I wanted to see changes. A new board was elected 18 months ago and changes are happening and will continue to happen in months and years to come. Yes, I agree there have been some negative changes such as trail closure and re-routes to roads but in some cases these are unavoidable. In the cases of land owners, you could have a trail for years and a simple "conflict" creates a closure. Now on to your comment on trail #5. Trail 5 is still closed therefore you are trespassing. Since you were a supporter and have obviously ridden the trails you should be aware then that trail 5 has lots of water... and swamps that must freeze before we can safely access the trail and even consider sending a groomer down it. We all know that we have not had ideal ice building conditions. Once the weather cooperates and we officially open our trails come back for a ride. I understand what is required to operate a groomer...my point is that Snowcrest should re-join the MSR, last year Snowcrest's main groomer broke, and no other local clubs helped (and they could have groomed for Snowcrest), only because Snowcrest is not part of the MSR...my point is that since the past club exec's left, and AJ is gone, the club on its own (without MSR support) is going downhill. Snowcrest is also my local club, enough said, time will tell if they can get their act together. As far as trespassing.....someone needs to checkout the trails and remove all the fallen debris...since Snowcrest will not do it, someone has too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater466 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 How do you know they won't do it? Are we living in a vaccum here? We have had several windstorms heavy snow a big thaw, lack of consistant cold without a heavy blanket of snow on top, and now a lack of snow after the melt. Not exactly ideal conditions. I agree that clubs can do a better job sometimes utilizing the volunteers they have (ie: some clubs won't/dont use the cottagers that volunteer) or some that like to keep it within some clique. But unless you are willing to step up and volunteer without the bagage (looking to offer criticisim without stepping up to help where/when it is needed with an avoidence of all the political/backstabbing bullshit). The early arrival of winter stoked our desire to get out there. Unfotunatelly we had our typical late December/Early Jan thaw and everything was taken back to square one. Hopefully with the cold temps everything can firm up and with some snow more trails can open in the coming weeks. I can't stand people who criticize just beacuse they purchased a trail pass. If everyone volunteered a few hours each year we be in great shape. But we are part of the "me" generation who feels they are entitled to have everyone else do everything for them and they should ride perfect table-top trails all the time. I realize for the most part I am speaking to the converted here as many of the members on here volunteer countless hours to maintaining the trails we ride. I salute you and offer whatever assistance you require. You will never hear a complaint from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater466 Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Craig Nicholson had an excellent article in the recent edition of the Go Snowmobiling Magazine explaining some clubs reluctance to waste permit dollars grooming early December snow that never seems to last beyond New Year. Dollars spent early and lost to thaw are for the most part wasted dollars. Some clubs with rail line concentrate on those trails as the base usually remain after the thaw and they are for the most part high and dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 i think for myself I'm just happy to ride. so what if it's not perfect conditions at lest I'm out there. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Nappy99Thank you for your past support. You are entitled to your opinion and choice of where to purchase your permit. I too have been a permit buyer for years from Snowcrest, they are my home club. I decided to get involved with the club directly because I wanted to see changes. A new board was elected 18 months ago and changes are happening and will continue to happen in months and years to come. Yes, I agree there have been some negative changes such as trail closure and re-routes to roads but in some cases these are unavoidable. In the cases of land owners, you could have a trail for years and a simple "conflict" creates a closure. Now on to your comment on trail #5. Trail 5 is still closed therefore you are trespassing. Since you were a supporter and have obviously ridden the trails you should be aware then that trail 5 has lots of water... and swamps that must freeze before we can safely access the trail and even consider sending a groomer down it. We all know that we have not had ideal ice building conditions. Once the weather cooperates and we officially open our trails come back for a ride. I understand what is required to operate a groomer...my point is that Snowcrest should re-join the MSR, last year Snowcrest's main groomer broke, and no other local clubs helped (and they could have groomed for Snowcrest), only because Snowcrest is not part of the MSR...my point is that since the past club exec's left, and AJ is gone, the club on its own (without MSR support) is going downhill. Snowcrest is also my local club, enough said, time will tell if they can get their act together. As far as trespassing.....someone needs to checkout the trails and remove all the fallen debris...since Snowcrest will not do it, someone has too. Who is it that you think made you god? Did you call the club office and offer assistance? Did you make sure that there was not another reason for the trail being closed? How many trails do you think can be covered in a few days? I have spent a couple of days clearing trails for Snowcrest and I don't live in the area, nor do I have a cottage there. Its people like you that make volunteering and thankless job and will be the destruction of organized snowmobiling in Ontario. So stop being and ass and start helping (within the organization), or shut up! :curse: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 the ofsc say kearney and sprucedale closed but they were open yesterday.not all trails. but they were open on a limited bases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Whoa !! Lighten up on Nappy99 ! The man has an opinion. We/you can disagree with his opinion but stop making personal comments about him. Some of his facts are correct. And maybe he doesn't know how much the club is changing so his perception is incorrect. Or not. I'm pretty sure I was a member of Snowcrest before there was an OFSC. The once proud organization that previously won Club of the Year is a shadow of its former self. NOT because of the current administration. The current administration appears to be trying to make change. And improve the club. But there is no doubt that it's been run into the ground. Landowner disputes have not been the result of the typical problems but because of the club's previous executive. Miles and miles of trails have been lost or just simply closed down. NO interest in grooming anywhere east of Gravenhurst. In the MSR, out of the MSR. Join with ASA, leave the ASA. Independence was not a decision following sober deliberation but one of arrogance. I left Snowcrest a few years ago. I buy 5 permits a year (and have sometimes bought 6) and all that went to the MSR because that's the district I ride in the most. This year, I've seen some changes. Some new blood and some interest in making it a club for snowmobiling again. I also think that not supporting the club through permit purchases or not helping out is cutting my nose off to spite my face. So, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping this club can get back on track. I hope the new administration will be able to turn it around. I hope we can reopen some lost trails. I hope they groom the TOP trails this year. The indications I have is they want to. I sure hope they can. Guys, before you rip Nappy99 a "new one", understand what it has been like these past 10 years. He's not out of line with his opinion on what has gone on. I truly hope he is wrong about what will happen this year and years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonut Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Well, me and the boys spent the past three days brushing and packing and filling holes on the 9, 10 and 12. Unbelievable number of down trees. In some places, we didn't move 20 feet between tree removals. Still several areas of moving water but they are starting to solidify. A couple more weeks and we should be on groomed trails I would think. Now we need more snow. Hard to believe but we actually do need more snow in the bush to fill low lying areas. Now, local report. Pine lake has 10 inches of layered ice with a solid 4" of blue. Deer and pigeon lakes are very similiar. Sleds are using Muskoka Bay at Gravenhurst. Lake muskoka is frozen over but unsafe as of this am unless you happen to be crazy. on a side note, we drove ( by truck) up to near Sprucedale to visit Mike D and Mrs.S saturday. North west of Huntsville has tons of snow and not one groomer has been out so ease up on Snow crest nappy. They are far from alone in not having trails groomed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskoka Man Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Doonut I havent seen your trailer at the cottage ,are you in a different spot this year , I will drop in when the gravenhurst bay is safe , thanks for your work on the trails it will make them come together faster when we get some more snow MM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nappy99 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks Slow Touring guy, my point has always been that Snowcrest should join the MSR, because on their own they have proven they just can't get it together, and as a result of their internal BS....we pay the price as sledders, it is NOT FAIR TO PERMIT HOLDERS, remember, a large part of your permit dollar goes to the OFSC, and you should expect the main trails groomed (like the D trail). This is not a free service, we pay for it and expect if all the MSR has good trails, Snowcrest should also have a good trail at the same time. Ten years ago, Snowcrest had the best early season trails, so it is possible. And before anyone breaks my but about this, look at the club's financials, they have money in the bank and make money....so hire some guys in town for $15/hour if you can't get free labour. Spend a few thousand on pre-season work like other clubs. We all pay for the service, and the club has sufficient funds to pay for a better product..period. Why do we put up with this ? Like I said, If they were part of the MSR, there would be a better product for us to ride on, no doubt. The only problem here is the club is actually a business, being run by non business people with their own agenda's...and is why I will no longer support the club. The bottomline here, unless we as sledders push Snowcrest to provide us a product like the MSR, nothing will change. They make money, (and have money) yet they provide sub-standard service, the fact that these other guys support that tells me they have sniffed too many 2 stroke fumes. Remember, snowmobiling is a business, and a very expensive one, you expect the best from your sled.....so expect the best from your club, you pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Well, me and the boys spent the past three days brushing and packing and filling holes on the 9, 10 and 12. Unbelievable number of down trees. In some places, we didn't move 20 feet between tree removals.Still several areas of moving water but they are starting to solidify. A couple more weeks and we should be on groomed trails I would think. Now we need more snow. Hard to believe but we actually do need more snow in the bush to fill low lying areas. Now, local report. Pine lake has 10 inches of layered ice with a solid 4" of blue. Deer and pigeon lakes are very similiar. Sleds are using Muskoka Bay at Gravenhurst. Lake muskoka is frozen over but unsafe as of this am unless you happen to be crazy. on a side note, we drove ( by truck) up to near Sprucedale to visit Mike D and Mrs.S saturday. North west of Huntsville has tons of snow and not one groomer has been out so ease up on Snow crest nappy. They are far from alone in not having trails groomed yet. This is the thing I'm talking about. More people now getting involved with Snowcrest again. Doonut, 14Snow, etc, etc. It gives me hope. But Domino, you've got to have some context here - which I hope you were able to grab from my previous post. Nappy99 knows what has happened. Your recent involvement, albeit welcome, does not carry history and has, perhaps, resulted in your thin skin. He is not wrong in history. I hope he is wrong on the future. East of Gravenhurst: Lost Trail 5 from 8 south to 3 - previous executive B trail through Bug Hollow - previous executive D trail ! 3 kilometres of dry ashphalt ?? !!! Trail 2 from Westview along M6, Benzinger Road, across Kahshe to Bell Road and out to 3 Mile Black River Road out to Victoria Falls Victoria Falls to connection with the HCSC Trail 3 loop from Black River Road back north to "B" are some. And that is without talking about the lack of grooming east of Gravenhurst !! Nappy99 has a perspective. I hope it will be changed by the results of this year's executive commitment to improving our trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 All I see here is guy bitching without knowing, he was once involved but isn't now?? Obviously he has absolutly no idea of the chalenges the new members have and are goning through, to put sleds on groomed trails. If he is still unhappy with the current state of things (as he mentioned in his first post) why not man up and help change it, as the people he's slandering are doing. Is there an ignore asshats feature here ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Is there an ignore asshats feature here ?? Yes, but that would block posts from the Admins and most of the moderators. :P :P :P :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Is there an ignore asshats feature here ?? Yes, but that would block posts from the Admins and most of the moderators. :P :P :P :P Peeeeeeerfeeeeeeeeect... we're all wound a little too tight right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much politics SHUT UP AND RIDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 snow Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Nappy99Thank you for your past support. You are entitled to your opinion and choice of where to purchase your permit. I too have been a permit buyer for years from Snowcrest, they are my home club. I decided to get involved with the club directly because I wanted to see changes. A new board was elected 18 months ago and changes are happening and will continue to happen in months and years to come. Yes, I agree there have been some negative changes such as trail closure and re-routes to roads but in some cases these are unavoidable. In the cases of land owners, you could have a trail for years and a simple "conflict" creates a closure. Now on to your comment on trail #5. Trail 5 is still closed therefore you are trespassing. Since you were a supporter and have obviously ridden the trails you should be aware then that trail 5 has lots of water... and swamps that must freeze before we can safely access the trail and even consider sending a groomer down it. We all know that we have not had ideal ice building conditions. Once the weather cooperates and we officially open our trails come back for a ride. I understand what is required to operate a groomer...my point is that Snowcrest should re-join the MSR, last year Snowcrest's main groomer broke, and no other local clubs helped (and they could have groomed for Snowcrest), only because Snowcrest is not part of the MSR...my point is that since the past club exec's left, and AJ is gone, the club on its own (without MSR support) is going downhill. Snowcrest is also my local club, enough said, time will tell if they can get their act together. As far as trespassing.....someone needs to checkout the trails and remove all the fallen debris...since Snowcrest will not do it, someone has too. Your facts are incorrect regarding last year. Our main groomer did not break. It was our smaller groomer for smaller trails. This being said, this problem is rectified. The trails that should have been maintained by this last year suffered as a result. This is no secret. It is pretty hard to keep up the trails with a sled and a drag... The tractors could not access all areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 snow Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks Slow Touring guy, my point has always been that Snowcrest should join the MSR, because on their own they have proven they just can't get it together, and as a result of their internal BS....we pay the price as sledders, it is NOT FAIR TO PERMIT HOLDERS, remember, a large part of your permit dollar goes to the OFSC, and you should expect the main trails groomed (like the D trail). This is not a free service, we pay for it and expect if all the MSR has good trails, Snowcrest should also have a good trail at the same time. Ten years ago, Snowcrest had the best early season trails, so it is possible. And before anyone breaks my but about this, look at the club's financials, they have money in the bank and make money....so hire some guys in town for $15/hour if you can't get free labour. Spend a few thousand on pre-season work like other clubs. We all pay for the service, and the club has sufficient funds to pay for a better product..period. Why do we put up with this ? Like I said, If they were part of the MSR, there would be a better product for us to ride on, no doubt. The only problem here is the club is actually a business, being run by non business people with their own agenda's...and is why I will no longer support the club. The bottomline here, unless we as sledders push Snowcrest to provide us a product like the MSR, nothing will change. They make money, (and have money) yet they provide sub-standard service, the fact that these other guys support that tells me they have sniffed too many 2 stroke fumes. Remember, snowmobiling is a business, and a very expensive one, you expect the best from your sled.....so expect the best from your club, you pay for it. As STG has said, many of the issues have resulted from PAST executive. The current 18mth old executive can not simply erase all old legacy issue that Nappy99 you MUST be aware of. As for the MSR, again you must know the history and I will simply say that whether or not we are part of the MSR will not help the water on our trails freeze, bring enough snow to cover our Muskoka granite etc. You are entitled to your opinion. As many have noted, the new executive is taking the club in the right direction and trying to clear up the legacy mess left behind. Many others have or are giving Snowcrest a chance. If your choice is buy your permit from the MSR, that is fine. We are all entitled to our opinions and decisions. I would like to see this arguing stopped and let the thread get back to what it was intended for. Trail condition updates. If you would like to discuss any of your points further I'd be happy to discuss. You can also PM me or call our office, you may be surprised in what you hear. See you on the trails soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This is turning into a pissing contest . SHUT UP AND RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I really don't see it as a pissing contest at all. But I agree that it would be nice to just get out and ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 This is turning into a pissing contest . SHUT UP AND RIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are correct, Nappy 99 is pissing in the wind! STG is correct, but Nappy 99 is not. They are two different topics. Snowcrest should not join MSR! And trespassing is trespassing! I would personally support the club issuing a trespass summons for Nappy 99. Three work crews were out this weekend for Snowcrest and many of the trails cannot be opened because of lack of snow and /or freezing. Any trail that is ridable has been open limited. This is amazing effort for this club. Nappy 99 was not part of any work crew on closed trails. MSR does not get trails magically ready! So joining MSR would do nothing for Nappy 99's complaints. As a volunteer, I will tell you that seeing this crap form Nappy 99 makes me want to give up on helping out, because it is obviously unappreciated. I paid for my trail permit too, and the OFSC is not a business, if it was your trail permit would be $1200 a year. Then everyone would be paid to prepare trails and they would be done faster. Wait! No they wouldn't, they still need more snow and freezing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonut Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Doonut I havent seen your trailer at the cottage ,are you in a different spot this year , I will drop in when the gravenhurst bay is safe , thanks for your work on the trails it will make them come together faster when we get some more snow MM Hi Dave. We moved in New Years eve. Will be up every weekend from now till melt down. I'll even be riding again soon id MXZX121 replaces the piston I lost yesterday morning quickly enough. OHHH TODDDDDDDDDD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I'll even be riding again soon id MXZX121 replaces the piston I lost yesterday morning quickly enough. OUCH ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Is that a ski-doo????????? That sucks DN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonut Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Yep, must have been doing 5mph when it happened too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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