signfan Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Rode their trails today. Nothing limited about them. They're awesome. Mid season conditions for sure. Took off from Deep River just after noon hour today. Headed for Mattawa. A trail was great. Little chop here and there but not much. A112A from the A to Mattawa was a mogul field. Not sure why but that stretch always sucks. Gassed up in Mattawa around 3:30. Then headed north west out of town. Much better on this side of town. It was snowing good now. Took the new Mattawa trail (MA170). This is a gem. Unfortunately a good chunk of it was plowed, but with a couple inches of fresh snow didn't matter today. Followed it onto NB308 and A102Q back out to hwy 11 and the A trail. Some more plowed roads, but excellent with the new snow. Eventually hit unplowed trail and it was a 10 out of 10. I don't think I saw a bump between Mattawa and Hwy 11 at the A trail. Then headed north. A trail to Temagami had some bumps (7 out of 10). Gassed up at 6:30 and kept running for New Liskeard. Arrived in town at 10 pm. Late finish, but it was a late start today. All in I met three groomers between A102Q/A and New Liskeard so things will be better tomorrow. There is a lot less snow in New Liskeard in comparison to the North Bay area or north of the park. Still enough to make great trails, but it's thin up here. Back to the truck tomorrow. Do I double back where I know some groomers are running tonight, or jump over the border and come back down in la Belle province? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baylaker Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 I was kinda wondering about north Bay Area. Their trails were listed as yellow (limited) all through the melt last week, and then they received more snow. I was kinda wondering why they weren’t being listed green now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Not just based on conditions. could be signage, worried about the thaws, warm, storms, need checked and signed off by the club for other issues... etc. Ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 The NDSC trails were open and awesome on the 13th and 14th of this month before the rain/freeze/new snow of the 15th to the 17th. The only one we weren't on was NB308. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 Came back down the A trail today to A102Q. Then headed to Temiscaming and rode the Quebec side to Swisha before crossing back over. Most of it was awesome. The trail into Temiscaming was rough once I crossed that last river before getting to town. Another one that seems to get ignored. All in all great 2 days of riding. TQ 43 is certainly remote. 200 km of nothing but access roads, lakes and the odd cabin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 3 hours ago, skidooboy said: Not just based on conditions. could be signage, worried about the thaws, warm, storms, need checked and signed off by the club for other issues... etc. Ski Yeah maybe. They're really not doing the snowmobiling community any favors though. Sometimes I think the ITG would be better if it was just open or closed. Eliminate the limited which is interpreted so differently from area to area. Then again I'm in the camp that thinks they should show the grooming delay like New Brunswick does. I'm sure it's lawyers saying that can't happen, but sure would be nice to give folks the info they want. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F6 Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, signfan said: Yeah maybe. They're really not doing the snowmobiling community any favors though. Sometimes I think the ITG would be better if it was just open or closed. Eliminate the limited which is interpreted so differently from area to area. Then again I'm in the camp that thinks they should show the grooming delay like New Brunswick does. I'm sure it's lawyers saying that can't happen, but sure would be nice to give folks the info they want. 👍Thats how it should be. Open, closed and a groomer delay. Let the clubs/districts give conditions like qc does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 8 hours ago, Steve F6 said: 👍Thats how it should be. Open, closed and a groomer delay. Let the clubs/districts give conditions like qc does. If it was open and closed only then wouldn't there be many many more people riding closed trails and causing extra grief for enforcement and and additional danger for volunteers working on the trails. Quebec has 4 different trail ratings. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 No closed is closed. How can there be 2' of snow in north bay, trails groomed into the 9's and maybe one washout that causes the entire system to be yellow. Then in district 3 you get 6" of snow one groom and it all goes green despite the hazards. It makes no sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
signfan Posted February 25, 2023 Author Share Posted February 25, 2023 Green or red. Show where the groomers have been, but only after the club calls the trail open. The second it is closed hide all grooming activity on that segment. It will give the riders what they want and will reduce volunteer workload having to complete updates as often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 some places in a few states (ie: far western UP mostly) michigan, wisconsin, minnesota, new hampshire, now have a groomer tracker ap, you can see where the groomer went and when it was there last. could help plan a trip. Ski https://www.groomertracker.com/clubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooboy Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, signfan said: Green or red. Show where the groomers have been, but only after the club calls the trail open. The second it is closed hide all grooming activity on that segment. It will give the riders what they want and will reduce volunteer workload having to complete updates as often. With Ontario (and the OFSC) fully petrified of liability... That aint gonna happen. Imagine someone believing an open trail means green, and it hasnt had a groom in days, weeks, or is the first groom, or has a washout or rough section or three, road running, logging ops etc... The complainers, will complain even more, than they do now. There should be 4 conditions... closed (closed means closed), red, maybe not groomed, packed, or signed well but, available, use extreme caution. yellow open, use caution, many areas of rough trail, issues, or signage... and green, mid season, conditions, signed, regularly groomed (and more than 2 groomer passes). I truly believe you need an independent person listing the trails and their conditions (not someone on the club, with a business directly linked to the condition and availability of said trail). We have all been to places that the trail was green, should be yellow, or red that should be yellow, or even green, and we have all been on those that should not be listed as open (and vise versa). there is the prestige of being the first to open, and last to close, and I have personally saw both to play out, as they shouldn't have been listed open at all, at the time. this, needs to stop. Open when it is safe, close when you have issues, you wouldn't run your own equipment down, without fear of hurting it. Again... everyone has a different view on what is acceptable to ride on. Ski 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 54 minutes ago, signfan said: No closed is closed. How can there be 2' of snow in north bay, trails groomed into the 9's and maybe one washout that causes the entire system to be yellow. Then in district 3 you get 6" of snow one groom and it all goes green despite the hazards. It makes no sense. Theoretically you are correct but since we already have riders who believe a trail permit gives them the right to ride any trail anytime, I believe that having only Red and Green trails would mean a dramatic increase in red riders. Maybe more education is needed for the club volunteers and groomer captains that make the call on the colour posted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 40 minutes ago, skidooboy said: There should be 4 conditions... closed (closed means closed), red, maybe not groomed, packed, or signed well but, available, use extreme caution. yellow open, use caution, many areas of rough trail, issues, or signage... and green, mid season, conditions, signed, regularly groomed (and more than 2 groomer passes). According to OFSC policy, club trails in Ontario are not to be opened in any colour until they have been inspected as to condition and signage by an appropriate individual from said club, signed off on by that individual and the signed paperwork sent to the district office. I believe this procedure has been in place for quite a number of years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve F6 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 13 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: If it was open and closed only then wouldn't there be many many more people riding closed trails and causing extra grief for enforcement and and additional danger for volunteers working on the trails. Quebec has 4 different trail ratings. I hear ya but i think those folks are colour blind anyway and will ride closed trails regardless of colour status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 17 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: Theoretically you are correct but since we already have riders who believe a trail permit gives them the right to ride any trail anytime, I believe that having only Red and Green trails would mean a dramatic increase in red riders. Maybe more education is needed for the club volunteers and groomer captains that make the call on the colour posted. Bang On! From.my personal experience and many years grooming, building trails, and doing signage/risk management. Yellow is way over used. Clubs I feel are worried about risk and I get that. When I list a trail as yellow, I think about a family who wants to go out for a ride, is it passable? Yellow keeps many riders away, and in many cases, I have ridden yellow thats green all day long.. Education is key... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Personally, I've never changed a ride plan because a trail was marked yellow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baylaker Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 I personally think the 3 colours is great. Obviously we need red, yellow needs to be there to warn everyone know there could be hazards such as washouts, low snow areas, rocks poking through, icy corners etc. green we all know as good or very good, but just because they’re green you still need to ride with caution. When the wife and I were up in Kearney last weekend, they were listed as yellow because they had a lot of rain and then the trail base turned to ice basically and then they received about 5” of snow right after. The trails IMO were green, they were the best trails I’ve ridden all season, but there was still the odd icy corner and rock poking through. Yellow is definitely needed. Clubs need to pay attention to the weather and current conditions, assess trails when needed and make good judgment calls. Im not 100% certain, but there was an accident in north bay this weekend and I believe it was on a yellow trail. I don’t know what happened. Accidents are going to happen on red yellow and green, but I would rather have somewhat of an idea on conditions before I go out for the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 I think that 4 colours has the potential of being more informative for would be trail users, but if we can't have agreement from club to club, on how to use the 3 colours, then is likely too much of a stretch. I doo like ski's idea of a 4th classification for trails that are passable, but not quite up to yellow standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 40 minutes ago, tricky said: I think that 4 colours has the potential of being more informative for would be trail users, but if we can't have agreement from club to club, on how to use the 3 colours, then is likely too much of a stretch. I doo like ski's idea of a 4th classification for trails that are passable, but not quite up to yellow standards. It's not a bad idea but as you mention "too much a stretch". Adding that classification and doing it properly would require club volunteers to patrol their trails a lot more often. In many if not most clubs, those who would have the time to do these extra patrols are older retired people that in many cases are already over volunteered and/or don't have the $ to pay for fuel and sled expenses to do so. Have you noticed the pictures of various club volunteers in front of the OFSC dog and pony show trailer. There's a lot of grey hair showing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Tim Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 I am happy to hear this as we were originally going to go to Timmins March 1, but now we are going to go to NBay, I love Timmins and the northern trails but I also like a 3 hr drive vs 7 hrs. More time on the sleds!!!! Planning some big km days, I have only been from NBay to Mattawa once in the past, planning doing NB to Stonecliffe, NB to New Liskeard and NB to Sudbury. Any recommendations on these plans?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Turbo Tim, are you wanting to stay in North Bay every night, or are you open to saddle bagging? Many people on here have a ton of experience in the area you are describing, but need to know more about your trip including how many days total and roughly how many km per day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Turbo Tim said: I am happy to hear this as we were originally going to go to Timmins March 1, but now we are going to go to NBay, I love Timmins and the northern trails but I also like a 3 hr drive vs 7 hrs. More time on the sleds!!!! Planning some big km days, I have only been from NBay to Mattawa once in the past, planning doing NB to Stonecliffe, NB to New Liskeard and NB to Sudbury. Any recommendations on these plans?? The Stonecliffe and Sudbury days aren't too bad at about 350 km depending on where you are staying in North Bay. The Liskeard day would be about 400 km.+ but has more fast sections. If you have been to Mattawa, you know the trails you will be on for the most part are not like the C trail north out of Timmins. On the Stonecliffe the only convenient place to fuel on the way is in Mattawa via A112A unless you go via Lake Nosbonsing and then you can get fuel at Big Moose Camp (follow black stakes off the Lake trail right to the pump). Where are you planning to stay in North Bay? Riding out to head north is a chore (IMO) if staying up on the Lakeshore. There is always more snow up over the hill on the north side of N.B. but the A112A and the A trail east have been pretty good the last while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Tim Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 3 hours ago, tricky said: Turbo Tim, are you wanting to stay in North Bay every night, or are you open to saddle bagging? Many people on here have a ton of experience in the area you are describing, but need to know more about your trip including how many days total and roughly how many km per day. We are staying at the BW in NBay and plan to come back every night, we are into 400km days, we are there Thurs to Sun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Tim Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said: The Stonecliffe and Sudbury days aren't too bad at about 350 km depending on where you are staying in North Bay. The Liskeard day would be about 400 km.+ but has more fast sections. If you have been to Mattawa, you know the trails you will be on for the most part are not like the C trail north out of Timmins. On the Stonecliffe the only convenient place to fuel on the way is in Mattawa via A112A unless you go via Lake Nosbonsing and then you can get fuel at Big Moose Camp (follow black stakes off the Lake trail right to the pump). Where are you planning to stay in North Bay? Riding out to head north is a chore (IMO) if staying up on the Lakeshore. There is always more snow up over the hill on the north side of N.B. but the A112A and the A trail east have been pretty good the last while. We are at the BW on Lakeshore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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