Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign

[UsedtoSkidoo]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Hey Face, The Denali only comes with the 6.0 litre and with all-wheel drive at around 110 we only get about 18mpg.

The secret is staying at 110! :P

[Domino]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Are you talking average over a few tanks, or instant mileage while she's doing 95?

[blue er]

try not to buy from china now, I have been to walmart 3 or 4 times ma(chinamart) but even all canadian Zellers most things are made in china

Try to find fishing equipment made in north america gets a little tough for rods so far it's all-star and st.croix.

As for fuel mileage my seirra with the 4.8l v8 avarages 18 mpg overall 12 around town 20-22 on the highway but it stays home and I drive my hyndai back and forth to work

[Major_Malfunction]

try not to buy from china now, I have been to walmart 3 or 4 times ma(chinamart) but even all canadian Zellers most things are made in china

Try to find fishing equipment made in north america gets a little tough for rods so far it's all-star and st.croix.

As for fuel mileage my seirra with the 4.8l v8 avarages 18 mpg overall 12 around town 20-22 on the highway but it stays home and I drive my hyndai back and forth to work

Was trying to Convince the the wife i should get a used Goldwing to save on gas (do 60,000 plus km's year) but she checked into it and the damn Goldwing gets worse

gas mileage than my Hyundai ....shot that idea all to hell :curse:

[Doo Dad]

I agree with the sentiment but I don't like seeing it on bumpers. After all there are no Canadian auto manufacturers. You know when push comes to shove the "Big 3" US manufacturers will dump their Canadian plants in a heartbeat.

[skidooer]

After all there are no Canadian auto manufacturers.

There was one a few years ago that made electric cars. It may have gone out of business though. I haven't heard anything about it since.

[SkiDooStu]

Sorry, I get 10l/100km. That's roughly 23.5mpg....

And yes, I do have sympathy for people who are working on the line. The average Joe didn't instruct his union to negotiate the health benefits packages that made GM Ford and Chrysler non-competitive. It was the unions AND the companies that negotiated these things.

I'm thinking of the average Joe who is just doing the best job that he can telling his family they have to move to Alberta because the money's gone. And yes, if there's any line worker haters out there, there are many people who take their job very seriously. I get pretty upset when auto workers get painted with the same brush as bunch of lazy union f*cks.

Plus, the only reason the import auto makers were able to get an edge is because during the 80's and early 90's they made everything abroad where they didn't have to pay the wages and health costs that the big 3 did. That's much more money for R&D. What are we saying if we buy a car made somewhere where wages are ridiculously low and there are no health benefits? That's us saying that we're ok with that lifestyle and someday we will be comfortable living it.

Now dont' get me wrong, Toyota and Honda now manufacture in N.A., but this is after many years of producing abroad. GM produced the Aveo and The Optra through a South Korean company, Daewoo just to try to keep up with cars like the Hyundai accent. How do you remain competitive in a market like that??? Seriously guys before you bash NA cars, think of the history, think of the people who have had good high paying jobs in NA and if it's really a good thing to have the tax base erode by everyone's jobs going to the service industry ($11/hr tops).

[skidooer]

Plus, the only reason the import auto makers were able to get an edge is because during the 80's and early 90's they made everything abroad where they didn't have to pay the wages and health costs that the big 3 did.

But GM's biggest mistake was becoming a truck company instead of perusing the EV-1. Think of where that technology would be today with a major push behind it. Of course, back then, trucks kept the shareholders happier and that's all that really counts.

[Easy Rider]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Actually that's 27.17 mpg imperial (at 10.5 litres per 100km.)and that is on the highway, right? One of my counterparts has a 07 Denali 5.3 and he is getting 20.5 mpg imperial average overall, which is better than my 06 GMC pick-up with a 5.3 that I can squeeze 18.5 mpg out of if I drive like a little old lady......

[Canuck]

But GM's biggest mistake was becoming a truck company instead of perusing the EV-1.

My heart goes out to the employees impacted by this, in Oshawa. Hopefully, Ottawa and the province will come up with a solution (although, at times I wonder if $250 million to GM wouldn't be better spent by just giving the $250 million to the employees ..... )

As one person said, however, would you like to buy a GM product built in Oshawa this week? This month?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Actually that's 27.17 mpg imperial (at 10.5 litres per 100km.)and that is on the highway, right? One of my counterparts has a 07 Denali 5.3 and he is getting 20.5 mpg imperial average overall, which is better than my 06 GMC pick-up with a 5.3 that I can squeeze 18.5 mpg out of if I drive like a little old lady......

Those must be smaller Denali's or the Envoy equivalent. Cause our full size units only came with the 6.0 litre and their is no way in hell we see 20mpg. 18 sure!

[irREVerent]

But GM's biggest mistake was becoming a truck company instead of perusing the EV-1. Think of where that technology would be today with a major push behind it. Of course, back then, trucks kept the shareholders happier and that's all that really counts.

Exactly!!!...that, and the quarterly financial results, which in turn affects the share price (and let's not forget executive bonuses...) Not nearly enough attention paid to longer-term vision or strategic thinking, and too much focus on what earns the highest profit per vehicle RIGHT NOW.

I think what is going on with GM in Oshawa (and more generally) right now is nothing short of sickening...but IMHO, it is way more about years of corporate greed and short-sightedness (and that applies to all of the "Big Three"), than it is about foreign competition.

Rant over...LOL

[Domino]

... if I drive like a little old lady......

And you do :poke:

[SkiDooStu]

But GM's biggest mistake was becoming a truck company instead of perusing the EV-1. Think of where that technology would be today with a major push behind it. Of course, back then, trucks kept the shareholders happier and that's all that really counts.

Exactly!!!...that, and the quarterly financial results, which in turn affects the share price (and let's not forget executive bonuses...) Not nearly enough attention paid to longer-term vision or strategic thinking, and too much focus on what earns the highest profit per vehicle RIGHT NOW.

I think what is going on with GM in Oshawa (and more generally) right now is nothing short of sickening...but IMHO, it is way more about years of corporate greed and short-sightedness (and that applies to all of the "Big Three"), than it is about foreign competition.

Rant over...LOL

I don't buy the conspiracy theories on the EV-1. I just think gas was so cheap that nobody would have been willing to pay the extra for the electric...

[skidooer]

I don't buy the conspiracy theories on the EV-1. I just think gas was so cheap that nobody would have been willing to pay the extra for the electric...

The only strange thing about the EV1 story is why did GM destroy all of them?

I believe there is no doubt that the EV1 would have been bad for business in the short term. GM designed some nice trucks and made good money building them. They probably would have sold relatively little electric cars in the same period.

But you didn't have to be Kreskin to see that the truck market wouldn't last forever... and now here we are. The twelve years of innovation on the EV1 would have put GM in a stellar position today. But instead they have nothing but gas guzzling trucks that nobody wants anymore.

They gambled and they lost. That's business I guess. Although it's unfortunate for all of those who are losing their jobs over it.

[Easy Rider]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Actually that's 27.17 mpg imperial (at 10.5 litres per 100km.)and that is on the highway, right? One of my counterparts has a 07 Denali 5.3 and he is getting 20.5 mpg imperial average overall, which is better than my 06 GMC pick-up with a 5.3 that I can squeeze 18.5 mpg out of if I drive like a little old lady......

Those must be smaller Denali's or the Envoy equivalent. Cause our full size units only came with the 6.0 litre and their is no way in hell we see 20mpg. 18 sure!

You're right, I called him and it is a 6 litre, he swears he gets 20.5 mpg, but he is mostly highway driving??? Still better than my P/U....

Called one of the wholesalers we use and asked for a price on a 07 Escalade EXT, which I had priced brand new in the fall of 06. The selling price back then was $76K from the dealer. I can buy one now, equivalent options with 10 to 15,000 km for between $35 and $40K. That is wholesale price to our dealership, so add a couple of thousand for retail....

Pretty expensive driving for 10 to 15,000km.

[Easy Rider]

... if I drive like a little old lady......

And you do :poke:

And what is THAT supposed to mean??

[Domino]

... if I drive like a little old lady......

And you do :poke:

And what is THAT supposed to mean??

For a while there I thought you were going to stop for a pee break, and it was only a 10 minute ride! :poke: :P

[SkiDooStu]

I don't buy the conspiracy theories on the EV-1. I just think gas was so cheap that nobody would have been willing to pay the extra for the electric...

The only strange thing about the EV1 story is why did GM destroy all of them?

I believe there is no doubt that the EV1 would have been bad for business in the short term. GM designed some nice trucks and made good money building them. They probably would have sold relatively little electric cars in the same period.

But you didn't have to be Kreskin to see that the truck market wouldn't last forever... and now here we are. The twelve years of innovation on the EV1 would have put GM in a stellar position today. But instead they have nothing but gas guzzling trucks that nobody wants anymore.

They gambled and they lost. That's business I guess. Although it's unfortunate for all of those who are losing their jobs over it.

Yes, I agree with you there. The Volt is supposed to get 150mpg, but its' going to cost $40,000 at first. I think I'm going to buy a Ford Focus next. I really like the 2008 model and it gets really nice mileage. I can't bring myself to buy a Honda or Toyota, even though they are manufactured here. I know that's terrible but I guess I've just liked domestic products so long....

[UsedtoSkidoo]

My 4.3L Sonoma gets about 25-27mpg depending on temperature changes (ya it's TBI, not MPI. haha)... Anyway it's been a fantastic truck but I'd like something with a full size bed and extended cab. We'll see how oil prices plane out. Apparently speculation makes up about $30 of the price of a barrel right now so you never know

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

Is that in miles per Imperial Gallon??? The 4.3 is good, but not that good in my experience.

My 4runner V6 gets 21mpg U.S. or 25mpg Imperial

or 11.2L/100km

And of course this depends on speed

Mother Nature has an 07 Denali with the 5.3 and she gets 28mpg with the cruise set at 95kph( or 10.5kpl????????) Still like full size north american metal

Actually that's 27.17 mpg imperial (at 10.5 litres per 100km.)and that is on the highway, right? One of my counterparts has a 07 Denali 5.3 and he is getting 20.5 mpg imperial average overall, which is better than my 06 GMC pick-up with a 5.3 that I can squeeze 18.5 mpg out of if I drive like a little old lady......

Those must be smaller Denali's or the Envoy equivalent. Cause our full size units only came with the 6.0 litre and their is no way in hell we see 20mpg. 18 sure!

You're right, I called him and it is a 6 litre, he swears he gets 20.5 mpg, but he is mostly highway driving??? Still better than my P/U....

Called one of the wholesalers we use and asked for a price on a 07 Escalade EXT, which I had priced brand new in the fall of 06. The selling price back then was $76K from the dealer. I can buy one now, equivalent options with 10 to 15,000 km for between $35 and $40K. That is wholesale price to our dealership, so add a couple of thousand for retail....

Pretty expensive driving for 10 to 15,000km.

Yep!............The H2's are even worse!

[smokeater466]

I do not necessarily lay all the blame at the "excessive cost of wages and benefits" earned by the North American auto worker as the cause of GM's demise. We should as a society want to see more people earning higher wages as the trickle down effect to the economy benefits us all whether we are selling widgits or working as a telemarketer. GM has brought upon itself it's current plight by it's corporate arrogance.

For far too many years they failed to adjust to the changing market (for example: the shift to smaller more fuel efficient autos) and failed to deal with serious quality issues. All the while they failed to back-up their vehicles with decent warranties (Chrysler fixed their electronic transmition problems after several years too many replaced tranmissions with the 7/115 warranty - GM 3yrs/60,000)

The fact of the matter is they did not care. They sold the largest amount of autos because a generation of north americans always went back and bought a GM. For how long did they have gasket issues? (head gasket, intake manifold gasket). They first blamed it on the antifreeze , that the switch to the dextron coolant was the fix - it wasn't. They had this problem with their 4 cyl, 6cyl and their 8's. The reason they did not care is that they backed their cars with the crappiest warranties going. These problems dated back for over 20 years. They did not care it was cheaper not to to address the problem.

I was a die hard GM man I've owned Impalas, Luminas, Subirds, Sierra pickups, Montana Vans and I will never own another GM again in my lifetime. The cars are disposable, they barely last 5 years and do not even come close to matching Japenese Quality. I'll pay a little more up front to be able to be trouble free for much longer.

I understand that we are seeing a shift from being an manufacturing economy to becoming dependant to other countries to supply us with our goods (ie" a world economy). We are seeing the erosion of good paying manufacturing jobs. Replaced with low paying retail jobs. Many people having to work several jobs in order to make ends meet.

What classifies as a domestic car nowadays ? The Honda made in Alliston? The Toyota made in Cambridge? The Chrysler made in Mexico cause they scaled back production in Brampton? or the Ford and GM made in Mexico or the US because they have scaled back production in Oshawa and Oakville?

[LuvMyViper]

Hey everyone.. My china boycott is a week old now and it is very interesting... I need new running shoes, can't find anything not made in china, stopped going to my favorite restraunt for Thia soup (noddles from China), I want to buy a blender which are all from china.. It just goes on and on.....

It won't be long before we are all slaves to the rich and powerful, imo......

[Lep]

Hey everyone.. My china boycott is a week old now and it is very interesting... I need new running shoes, can't find anything not made in china, stopped going to my favorite restraunt for Thia soup (noddles from China), I want to buy a blender which are all from china.. It just goes on and on.....

It won't be long before we are all slaves to the rich and powerful, imo......

Ricky try New Balance they do have factory's oversea's but are one of the last in NA.

BTW......I will say it again the damage is already done.

[whits-end]

OK............Hands up everyone who holds shares or a mutual fund containing shares in a domestic corporation!

Yes, corporate arrogance and greed is at least partly to blame, but who would invest in a losing company because they are "doing the right thing?"

Most of us need to shoulder some of the blame for our own arrogance and greed.

[revrnd]

I really feel bad for those buggers in Oshawa right now. People can criticize line workers all they want but these are real people with mortgages and families to worry about...

You cant seriously be defending those guys in Oshawa can you? Yes I have empathy for them but you reap what you sew. The union's have done a wonderful job of pricing our (decidedly unwanted gas guzzling vehicles) out of the market.

I wonder how many of the sledders in the Oshawa complex won't be buying a new sled this winter or taking an touring trip?

My brother & I bought 3 sleds last winter. If we had to do it this year we'd probably hang onto the sleds a while longer. We also did 7 days of touring in northern Ontario & Quebec. We''l have to see how things are before we decide on how we spend our trip.

Maybe if GM's management had the foresight to build a small or mid-sized truck in Oshawa, this wouldn't be happening.

I hope some of the union bashers on here or other websites don't work in manufacturing jobs as they too are vulnerable to moving to Mexico.

Finally some of us know what has been happening to the forestry industry in northern Ontario. If the mill in D'ville was to permanently close, I wonder how long it would take for the town to vanish?