Yukon Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 and this is good how? I didnt say it was good, did I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Oh well, do the count and between 60-65% will vote in favour of this. This is most likely a done deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Oh well, do the count and between 60-65% will vote in favour of this. This is most likely a done deal. who did you count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 who did you count?Count all the clubs in grooming associations, the low volunteers clubs and most of the northern clubs......For them there will be not a big change or it becomes better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I can't see the bigger Clubs (ours included) becoming a Chapter unless I am missing something along the way. Â The big advantage would be that the District would write all of our cheques and keep the books as well. Â This would certainly be an advantage for the smaller Clubs. Â The big % of Online Sales has certainly reduced the Club's admin workload. Â Many of our Clubs in District 11 don't want exclusive Online Permits which is coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Another thing to force a vote on at AGM. As it was defeated last year for early sales, the reasons remain the same to vote against this one. We have a large number of permit buyers who do not have the computer skills, or more often do not want to risk their credit card information to the net.  Last year, we were promised a 'POS' (Point of Sale, not the other one) access for clubs to sell online but take the revenue directly from the customer. Last year, a couple of clubs had attempted something like this but the OFSC was in a flap about the address on the paying account not matching the actual owner. I see nothing mentioning this in the package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The Clubs are going to have to get together and vote to continue some form of local permit sales. The counter argument is that 3 and 7 day permits are exclusively online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 I heard that permits won't be sold on the trail either by Trail Patrol. Â So much for enforcement. Â Why buy a permit at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 So much for the motion that was passed last year asking for a $400 permit on the trail  Also, no mention of the transferable permit for OEM dealers after being passed last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I heard that permits won't be sold on the trail either by Trail Patrol. So much for enforcement. Why buy a permit at all? My neighbor did that with three sleds and rode mostly at night and during the week. He told me I was a fool for buying permits. It is the right thing to do as we all know. It. A few good winters have helped permit sales. I know there is a cost to print permits and then if they don't sell them, resources are wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The Province of Ontario has completely abandoned their responsibility to assist snowmobiling. Minuscule grants versus snowmobiling tax revenues, diminishing OPP presence on the trails, STOP program disintegrating and an embarrassing failure to follow through and now a revised Ambassador Trail Patrol program with absolutely no legislative changes to allow us to enforce the thieves who use our trails without buying a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 My neighbor did that with three sleds and rode mostly at night and during the week. He told me I was a fool for buying permits. It is the right thing to do as we all know. It. A few good winters have helped permit sales. I know there is a cost to print permits and then if they don't sell them, resources are wasted. If you are a landowner or you know your neighbours that are landowners  I hope you did something about him trespassing on the trail and the land! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The Province of Ontario has completely abandoned their responsibility to assist snowmobiling. Minuscule grants versus snowmobiling tax revenues, diminishing OPP presence on the trails, STOP program disintegrating and an embarrassing failure to follow through and now a revised Ambassador Trail Patrol program with absolutely no legislative changes to allow us to enforce the thieves who use our trails without buying a permit. Brian , you're comments can't be disputed. This province is in a serious mess and our sport is pretty low on their priority list. It looks like us snowmobilers and club members/volunteers have to fend for ourselves. What do you think of the val tag increase with OFSC keeping that money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I am somewhat on the opposite side of the fence on Val Tag. In principal, I do not see the justification in taking Val Tag revenues from those Snowmobilers who do not wish to access the OFSC Trail System. Possibly one could justify $5 for snowmobile safety education but even that is a stretch. ETR407 can take your licence away if you don't pay, red light cameras go against the vehicle owner, Province of Ontario jacks up motor vehicle registration prices September 1st with no justification but all those high paid bureaucrats can't figure out how our trail Patrol cannot issue a ticket like any City ByLaw Enforcement Officer to allow us to police our own trails when OPP doesn't have resources or will to do it. The ticket goes against the sled owner, no need to identify the operator, two Trail Patrollers taking proper notes and possibly a photograph should be sufficient evidence, just like a Parking Ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I am somewhat on the opposite side of the fence on Val Tag. In principal, I do not see the justification in taking Val Tag revenues from those Snowmobilers who do not wish to access the OFSC Trail System. Possibly one could justify $5 for snowmobile safety education but even that is a stretch. ETR407 can take your licence away if you don't pay, red light cameras go against the vehicle owner, Province of Ontario jacks up motor vehicle registration prices September 1st with no justification but all those high paid bureaucrats can't figure out how our trail Patrol cannot issue a ticket like any City ByLaw Enforcement Officer to allow us to police our own trails when OPP doesn't have resources or will to do it. The ticket goes against the sled owner, no need to identify the operator, two Trail Patrollers taking proper notes and possibly a photograph should be sufficient evidence, just like a Parking Ticket. Like I was saying, this province is pretty messed up, like someone said in a previous thread, the bureaucrats think if they need to go out of town they are going to Pickering. If there isn't any new revenue being generated then the costs have to be cut. I am sure about the val tag program but if the permit buyers don't pay more in the end then it is going to be real hard to turn it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Brian , you're comments can't be disputed. This province is in a serious mess and our sport is pretty low on their priority list. It looks like us snowmobilers and club members/volunteers have to fend for ourselves. What do you think of the val tag increase with OFSC keeping that money? I think that is pie in the sky. when we passed Framework for Control, we were supposed to be getting $15 Val Tag revenue. Now they are saying $30 but I doubt we will see anything. Just more hot air so that we will vote for their recommendations.  Did you notice that the Actual AGM portion has been shortened to 2 hours? After the speech from the throne (President's Report) and the Chair's Opening Remarks, I suspect we will have barely an hour for the business. How much time do you think there will be for discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonCalling Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 It looks like I'm a little late entering into this discussion.  I will continue to follow this one too.  FYI, last season all of District 5 became a grooming association, with funds flowing to and from the district.  It is still in its infancy, but has showed great success already in many avenues, the greatest being access to a larger amount of funds, and the district footing the bill for all groomer repairs with an approved purchase order of course.  Like I said there is way more to it, but in a nut shell it has already proven successful.  Much of what is in the groomer report and the more on the snow proposal has already been discussed with the next step being to look for more efficiencies in grooming in all areas.  Needless to say before it was adopted the program was met with a lot of skepticism, doubt, concerns etc etc etc.  Some still exists as tweaks are still being required, but as I said earlier, simply put it has been successful overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think that is pie in the sky. when we passed Framework for Control, we were supposed to be getting $15 Val Tag revenue. Now they are saying $30 but I doubt we will see anything. Just more hot air so that we will vote for their recommendations.  Did you notice that the Actual AGM portion has been shortened to 2 hours? After the speech from the throne (President's Report) and the Chair's Opening Remarks, I suspect we will have barely an hour for the business. How much time do you think there will be for discussion? Yup I noticed that too. It is pretty short to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 While I commend your success, I see the main difference is that you and your partner clubs had a choice to proceed down that path. I do not see that choice in this proposal. I object to the plan being forced upon us, and if I read the agenda correctly there is very little time to discuss these very important items. From what I gleaned from the report, there are a lot of areas that are not very well defined yet.  As a corporate (club) representative, I do not think that I can vote for half baked ideas. This plan must be fleshed out, showing where the money is coming from for the major capital expenditures. To say that we will save $X because we will have a newer fleet of groomers only makes sense AFTER we actually have all of teh groomers withing the 5 year age. While there will be some savings where the groomers are replaced, the other older units will still continue to need repair money to keep functioning. And to reduce the size of the fleet is premature while the older units are still required to back up the other older units.  To spring this significant a change on the clubs with only a couple of months notice is arrogant and not well thought out. And, unless I hear something a LOT more defined in the district meeting, I would think it is irresponsible for teh clubs to approve this direction without some well defined constraints. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 With regards to the permit sales I was under the understanding that the MTO agreement was for the sales of permits to be only thru one selling entity or something like that. The passing of permits through to vendors and more than one club level was not really to be allowed?  Correct me if I am wrong or explain you're understanding of the agreement please. This is the reason that the permits will be only available online is what I am thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 With regards to the permit sales I was under the understanding that the MTO agreement was for the sales of permits to be only thru one selling entity or something like that. The passing of permits through to vendors and more than one club level was not really to be allowed?  Correct me if I am wrong or explain you're understanding of the agreement please. This is the reason that the permits will be only available online is what I am thinking. no the mto has allowed us to operate as we are for over ten years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 If you are a landowner or you know your neighbours that are landowners I hope you did something about him trespassing on the trail and the land! I tried my best but he was very stubborn guy. He moved about 5 years ago, so no more issues now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 It looks like I'm a little late entering into this discussion. I will continue to follow this one too. FYI, last season all of District 5 became a grooming association, with funds flowing to and from the district. It is still in its infancy, but has showed great success already in many avenues, the greatest being access to a larger amount of funds, and the district footing the bill for all groomer repairs with an approved purchase order of course. Like I said there is way more to it, but in a nut shell it has already proven successful. Much of what is in the groomer report and the more on the snow proposal has already been discussed with the next step being to look for more efficiencies in grooming in all areas. Needless to say before it was adopted the program was met with a lot of skepticism, doubt, concerns etc etc etc. Some still exists as tweaks are still being required, but as I said earlier, simply put it has been successful overall. London I am trying to validate the success of D-5. Pg 13 of the EQ process has the 4 yr avg actual expenses as well as last years actual expenses. What it's telling me is that D-5's actual 4 yr avg expenses for trail, groomer and admin was $724,829. Last year the actual expenses were $873,678. The presenters at our District meeting made the statement that last year was very close to the 4 yr avg in terms of trails and grooming hrs. If that's the case why the $150k increase in expenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I tried my best but he was very stubborn guy. He moved about 5 years ago, so no more issues now. Post 85 let's a person  believe this all happened last winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I think that is pie in the sky. when we passed Framework for Control, we were supposed to be getting $15 Val Tag revenue. Now they are saying $30 but I doubt we will see anything. Just more hot air so that we will vote for their recommendations.  Did you notice that the Actual AGM portion has been shortened to 2 hours? After the speech from the throne (President's Report) and the Chair's Opening Remarks, I suspect we will have barely an hour for the business. How much time do you think there will be for discussion?  There should be as much time as is required to work through the decisions.... After all that is the whole purpose of the AGM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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