Bad News - Chapleau Club Shuts Down

[hi-mileage]

Chapleau Club calls it quit!! It is on their FB page.

[Reved]

Here is the letter

 

Jim Cook‎Chapleau Arctic Watershed Snowmobile Club
This letter is to inform the citizens of Chapleau that as of January 20th, 2015 the Chapleau Arctic Watershed Snowmobile (CAWS) Club, District 13, has voted unanimously to close our club. This is as a result of on-going and insurmountable challenges

The board members have quickly developed an appreciation of the challenges facing the club. These challenges include but are not limited to:

• Our trails are remote, cover distances in excess of 300 kilometers that are some of the most difficult swampy terrain in the district with the limited resources to do so;
• Up until recently, we had been operating with shoddy grooming equipment. Both of our experienced groomer operators quit last year;
• We do not have the industry base to support contract bidding. It is nearly impossible to get 3 quotes for anything. OFSC funding policies are prohibitive in this regard as they require 3 bids for any trail work;
• MNRF’s work permit process requires extensive up-front planning.
• We have very few volunteers who have the time or ability to do trail preparation, repair, inspection, maintenance, rerouting and planning;
• We do not have adequate funding to undertake the significant improvements that would be required to bring the current F trail up to standard; This would require a conservative estimate of $250,000.00 to repair our trails
• We have a reduced availability of fuel with closures of fueling stations along our trail systems which has resulted in a serious decline in snowmobile tourism.
• Our grooming runs are far too long. Operators have to go out on runs that are 12-14 hours in one direction. Our operators are working under uncomfortable, and sometimes dangerous, conditions.
• Many water crossings need to be installed, as we have at least 25 water crossing and water issues between Chapleau and Aubrey Falls where we have a hard time establishing the trail base due to flowing water (even in mid-winter). For a number of reasons, ad-hoc trail patching from year to year must end, as it is illegal in many cases according to MNRF regulations.
We submitted a proposal in the summer of 2014 to the Ontario Federation of Snowmobile Clubs as has been done year after year and the requested funding during a call for proposals and year over year we were denied. Along with the numerous areas of issues known last year we have several new major issues including a 45 foot washout on the Austin road that has severed the F trail.

Without the adequate financing to repair the trails members of CAWS will be unable to sustain this club. Out of respect to those who purchased snowmobile trail passes this year we did get out on the trails to try to make it work. However, based on the current trail conditions there aren’t enough volunteers or hours available to make it work. We have spent weekend after weekend in training and out on the trails. We have only been able to access less than 80 kilometers of our trail systems because of huge trail issues we have encountered with limited alternative access. Of the trails we have assessed the conditions beyond our local borders are very poor.

Algoma Snow Plan Affiliation, our district lead, has asked if we could continue to groom our local loops this season which would include the local, in town trails, and the Devon and Bordon Loops. We are in talks with the District to try to make this happen for those local trail pass owners and riders. We will keep you posted

[hi-mileage]

Thanks Reved.

[Wildman]

Wow, I hadn't heard anything and thought that was not a good sign. This is a huge loss. With any luck at all, maybe the d trail through halfway will reopen, although, who really knows the reality of that. Tragic.

[Wildbill]

very sad I feel for them that could not have been an easy decision 

[Canuck]

Thanks for the info hi-mileage and Reved.

 

Hope that local trails remain open for permit buyers in the community.

[Old Sledder]

Sad, I wonder if this may have any relevancy to other clubs who may have similar issues

[sledjunk]

Very sad! 

[14 snow]

IF anyone goes to their FB page, read the comments from Groomer Guy.  He calls them out on a few things....

 

Losing any club is always bad.  Fortunately I was able to ride their trails on better days.

[bbakernbay]

Many valid points set out by the club and some of these are quite similar to what other clubs are facing.

He rightly mentioned grant funding and MNR.

Our club has the money and expertise to make applications for grant funding and MNR Work Permits but most clubs don't.

The problem is you need to spend big $$ on hydrology, bridge design, foundation design before you can even make an application.

Then you need MNR Work Permit and this takes considerable time and effort.

Once you get that far then you need to get 3 Quotes which is difficult to get, even in our area of North Bay.

I have said the new MNR policy on requiring engineered bridges is going to bankrupt and/or close clubs.

We are building a 80' long snowmobile bridge (not groomer) and the approved cost is $95,000, yikes, and we pay 10% plus design costs up front before we even know whether we might even get funding approved.

The Club never mentioned lack of Volunteers but that is a problem for most clubs.

Also an issue in far north is locals not buying Trail Permits but that is relatively minor in the scope of what they are facing.

This is very likely going to be repeated elsewhere over the next few years.

It is not really OFSC's fault, it is the new reality.

Is there a solution, not likely in my opinion.

[Nunz]

Not good news sad to see them folding, We had a great time last year on that loop...Sure hope they can work things out somehow.

[bbakernbay]

Yea, stayed at Valentine's B&B a few years ago, very enjoyable.

 

The Big get Bigger and the Small get Smaller unfortunately and that doesn't work well for many northern snowmobile clubs.

 

The long distances, terrible terrain and minimal population/jobs all contribute to a serious decline.

[slomo]

IMO the largest problem is not being able to start to get things done to turn the situation around. Where to go? Who can be approached to get the ball rolling? In what central place can ideas be discussed and be acted upon? Frankly, I have no idea.

 

-The OFSC or someone has to convince the Ontario government that the trail system is worth sustaining - using Quebec's system as a model minjus the insurance. There has been little effort in this direction from the OFSC as far as I can see. No public relations has taken place to let the general population know that the sled trails bring money to their areas and often provide a place for other past times to flourish.

 

-There is strength in numbers - more partnerships with other trail type users have to be undertaken. ATV's and skiiers are a couple of possibilities but if you consider the 75 kilometer volunteer run / government supported West Coast Trail on Vancouver Island attracts hundreds of multi - day hikers, the rugged northern Ontario would have the same type of appeal.

 

 

-There must be a few retired professional engineers with their P. Eng. credentials still in force that might be hired on a part time basis (or convinced to volunteer their time) to help planning and design planning?

 

-Where are the local members of provincial and federal goverments in these areas? Are they being lobbied for some support- in particular in the area of enabling the MNR to work in concert with snowmobile and ATV trails, much as they do with the provincial parks - maybe a special section of the MNR exclusively involved with developing a permanent sled and ATV system.

 

-Wood chips - environmentally friendly and inexpensive - use them to build up trails to a more permanent basis for year round use.  I'm sure there's some government program providing students with summer work (revrnd can come out of retirement to get this going having some experience with the Junior Rangers?) that could build all weather trails in a matter of a few summer.

 

-Maybe next year's Annual General Meeting of the OFSC, those folks that are going might consider some broader planning or in fact a turn around strategy to save the system - particularly the north.

[AkronOrange]

It's all about resources!  Most here know my position on these topics.  I have been fortunate enough to ride in all of these areas and many that no longer exist.  Until the MNR and OFSC make a significant change in funding this will continue to happen, and this is where the snow is!  There has to be enough volunteer support to keep the system alive.  It was the demise of District 16.  Those areas more populated suffer from the weekend warrior idiots out to get from point A to point B in as little time as possible with no regard for the safety of themselves or others on the train, not to mention destroying the trail while they're at it.  It will be the demise of the trails in cottage country.  How many injuries and/or deaths do you think it will take before all of us are bad people?

[revrnd]

The MTO controls the trail permit system.

 

The Ministry of Tourism promotes the sport.

 

The MNR throws up road blocks @ every turn.

 

I read elsewhere about the MNR taking out a Bailey bridge near Baysville (for unknown reasons) I became concerned about the same type of bridge that Paudash had installed 2 winters ago on E107 to cross Eels creek. I think the MNR just makes things up on the fly.

[Wildman]

The MTO controls the trail permit system.

 

The Ministry of Tourism promotes the sport.

 

The MNR throws up road blocks @ every turn.

 

I read elsewhere about the MNR taking out a Bailey bridge near Baysville (for unknown reasons) I became concerned about the same type of bridge that Paudash had installed 2 winters ago on E107 to cross Eels creek. I think the MNR just makes things up on the fly.

that mto deal chaps my backside, it is club members money not the mto's, yet we have to follow their gay rules. The federation is getting the short end of the stick on this deal, way to many stipulations on the funds we raise, imo it makes for slow/bad business. And after seeing the results of the ISMA finacial impact study, the government ministries should be kissing our hinies for the revenue volunteers provide. The government reeps the lions share out of this whole deal and provides nothing but grief, and I will rant about this again at some point.

[Wildbill]

Somehow the quebec system needs to be adapted here 

[Wildbill]

that mto deal chaps my backside, it is club members money not the mto's, yet we have to follow their gay rules. The federation is getting the short end of the stick on this deal, way to many stipulations on the funds we raise, imo it makes for slow/bad business. And after seeing the results of the ISMA finacial impact study, the government ministries should be kissing our hinies for the revenue volunteers provide. The government reeps the lions share out of this whole deal and provides nothing but grief, and I will rant about this again at some point.

Can I nominate you for pres?

[sledjunk]

AO

 

I understand and support your desire for the northern trails to survive.

 

However, I do not understand your constant rants about the 'southern' riders.  This is where we live and work and volunteer to build trails.  We cannot live and work here and be expected to volunteer to build trails hours away.  If the local people near the northern trails cannot, or will not build the trails, what do you propose as a solution?  Should we pay contractors to build those trails while the rest of the province has to has to volunter if they want trails to ride close to home?

 

Where should the money come from?  Provincial coffers?  Raise the permit prices?  To what level?  Some constructive ideas without bashing the sledders who do not live, or in many cases even ride the northern trails would be helpful.

[Wildman]

Somehow the quebec system needs to be adapted here

while I agree with you Bill, the Quebec federation is in the federal governments back pocket and I doubt there is enough room for us, and their provincial government probably supports their efforts more than ours supports us. Our volunteers have given so much to build and maintain our system, its like the governments know we won't watch it sink, they can reep the benefits and put very little in.

[Wildbill]

while I agree with you Bill, the Quebec federation is in the federal governments back pocket and I doubt there is enough room for us, and their provincial government probably supports their efforts more than ours supports us. Our volunteers have given so much to build and maintain our system, its like the governments know we won't watch itcsink, they can reep the benefits and put very little in.

maybe if we threaten to seperate?

[Wildman]

Lol

[Sneaks]

Sad to hear.  I'm still pretty new to the sport, but want to see it maintained and thrive, rather than news like this.  Buddy always took me out once/twice a year, and I've followed/wanted snowmobiles for many years but last year was my first time owning a snowmobile, and picked up a second this year (both classics, it's all I can afford to dedicate to the sport but I like my 95/98 poo's) and my 13YO son got his license along with my riding buddy's eldest this year (and I have 3 others kids/he has 4 just waiting in the wings as they reach 12+.)  I just hope we can collectively come together and solve this so that there are still places to ride for years to come and maintain and increase the sport we all enjoy for future generations, and at an attainable price for sustainability.

 

whatever people say, whatever people don't like about the current system, it's hard to argue with the fact that we have the #1 interlinked snowmobile trail system in the WORLD, right here in Ontario, Canada, and that every year this highway system appears and disappears existing for just 1-4m, all at the hands of countless volunteer hours.  That is a feat of amazement in of itself.  Let's work to keep it that way.  I hope I can help and one day ride the trails all over the province, including the far north that I have yet to experience, rather then have the clubs melt away like the highways we ride on come spring.

[Wildman]

Can I nominate you for pres?

you can but I will decline, maybe in my 90th year when I retire

[bbakernbay]

The MTO is certainly not the problem except with respect to needed changes to MSVA and possibly the Val Tag although I am not convinced that this really has merit.

The OFSC gets every cent from the Trail Permits and we decide where and how we want to spend it.

OFSC through FFC has delegated most of the trail responsibilities and funding to the Districts and Clubs.

They still control Groomer Replacement funding centrally as well as significant control over outside funding such as TDF and NTC and that is probably okay.

MNR policies are very costly to snowmobiling.

Ministry of Tourism has a mandate to promote tourism so their $$$ come with strings attached to promote tourism.

The Federal contribution to snowmobiling in Ontario is a pittance compared to Quebec.

I gave some examples to our MP who is a Conservative and never heard anything in response.

Unfortunately Northern Ontario has almost zero influence at Queens Park.

The Province needs to step up but won't or can't because of the huge provincial debt and also the optics of assisting Snowmobilers.

I really fel sorry for those Volunteers who have put their heart and soul into their trails and to see it go away must be heartbreaking.