PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 So 3 dealers sell 3/4 groomers each and its not good for them? No benefit from parts, service and warranty work? And you own a business? Most of the dealers are selling 3-4 groomers a year so how will this be better for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 6-8 new groomers per year amongst 5 or 6 manufacturers = zero bargains power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 6-8 new groomers per year amongst 5 or 6 manufacturers = zero bargains power Now if we wait 10 years and buy 60 units. Hmmmm. I know some clubs lease, I wonder how well that works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted April 1, 2014 Author Share Posted April 1, 2014 The OFSC needs a Groomer Purchasing person. This person would buy groomers in Bulk and get a discounted price. They can buy each type of groomer, Husky, 2 track tractor and 4 track tractor. Get rid of each Club "Specking" out their groomer at a huge cost. When a Club or District gets awarded a new groomer from the groomer replacement fund they get a choice of 3 units which were purchased at a "volume discount". Also before any Club gets a groomer they should have the opportunity to purchase a trade in from a Club that had very few hours rather than buying new. Why does everyone need a "new" groomer? There are plenty of demos and trade ins with huge savings. There is way too many groomers being bought at full retail and trade in's getting very little with Clubs having to continue using old groomers with 10,000+ hours. I bet that you can't find 5 groomers with 10,000 hours in Ontario. Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 So 3 dealers sell 3/4 groomers each and its not good for them? No benefit from parts, service and warranty work? And you own a business? Thanks for the personal shot. I have dealt with and know the Sop industrial and Ebert welding both very good businesses providing good service. They are not getting rich off of this industry. There was a time when they sold a pile of units and they very much sharpen their pencil for every deal. If a dealer cannot make a profit then they will not exist. First lets find funding to buy more units then lets talk bulk purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott S Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 A different twist we had looked at when reviewing options for our latest machine was a seasonal lease. It was very achievable but was outside the current procurement model. Looking at 4 track, agricultural conversions such as those from Soucy they can be fitted and removed in a fairly short time frame. Club owns track and blade kit and drag but lease power unit. Run a seasonal lease where the clubs can use the tractor units to groom and then they are leased for agriculture in the off season. We even considered the option of purchasing the unit and leasing out to known farmers for light duty work where they are in the same boat - can use an extra piece of equipment but not for very long. Outside of the box maybe, but other options are needed. Spending 200K on a machine that sits more than half the year is not good use of trail money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 A different twist we had looked at when reviewing options for our latest machine was a seasonal lease. It was very achievable but was outside the current procurement model. Looking at 4 track, agricultural conversions such as those from Soucy they can be fitted and removed in a fairly short time frame. Club owns track and blade kit and drag but lease power unit. Run a seasonal lease where the clubs can use the tractor units to groom and then they are leased for agriculture in the off season. We even considered the option of purchasing the unit and leasing out to known farmers for light duty work where they are in the same boat - can use an extra piece of equipment but not for very long. Outside of the box maybe, but other options are needed. Spending 200K on a machine that sits more than half the year is not good use of trail money. You may want to do some more research, it is not cheap to change tracks twice a year. My club has a soucey system, we looked at leasing, the only doable way was volunteer labour. 4 of us, experienced mechanics installed the tracks on a new Puma, 12hrs. Could we do it faster next time? A bit, but not much. Would I volunteer my time twice a year to do this, no. It is labour intensive, and they come back off the exact same way they went on, no short cuts and leaving them partially assembled, it is like a sequence puzzel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 My understanding is that the rubber tracks do not like icey hills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 My understanding is that the rubber tracks do not like icey hillsYour understanding is 100% correct. We have 1 hill we can not climb when it gets icey, it is steep, but nothing like more northerly districts. We have other hills that we climb no problem, and they rarely get icey. I got a call from an operator 1 night, he was on ice in a flat field and it would not move. It took quite a bit of messing around, but it finally made its way out. They are a neat unit, but imo, not real practical for the money. I get sick of greasing it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Your understanding is 100% correct. We have 1 hill we can not climb when it gets icey, it is steep, but nothing like more northerly districts. We have other hills that we climb no problem, and they rarely get icey. I got a call from an operator 1 night, he was on ice in a flat field and it would not move. It took quite a bit of messing around, but it finally made its way out. They are a neat unit, but imo, not real practical for the money. I get sick of greasing it too. ok thanks the Tucker (with SSSC redisign)and the Prinoth are working well here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 ok thanks the Tucker (with SSSC redisign)and the Prinoth are working well hereCleats on the tucker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Cleats on the tucker? Yes and it climbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 We have the carbide picks welded on our Tucker cleats so we can climb AD north of The Portage/ONR/Highway 63 The Tucker has been a very expensive machine for our Club over the past 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 We have the carbide picks welded on our Tucker cleats so we can climb AD north of The Portage/ONR/Highway 63 The Tucker has been a very expensive machine for our Club over the past 7 years. after the redesign the prinoth actually cost more to operate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 My understanding is that the rubber tracks do not like icey hills It's not like you have any hills in your area that can get icy.... dang there are some hills out behind the Jolly Roger that come close to giving you a nose bleed. I would hate to be trying to get up or down them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowchopper Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 after the redesign the prinoth actually cost more to operate The Almaguin club has two Prinoth Huskys. Why do they cost more to operate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 The Almaguin club has two Prinoth Huskys. Why do they cost more to operate? they really are excellent my point was that we may have a handle on the Tucker issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoonerF8 Posted April 5, 2014 Share Posted April 5, 2014 Do we not already have an informal forum? In our district we have mostly Sur-Trac groomers with a few BRs and 1 Tucker , Prinoth and Trail Boss. We all talk @ district meetings or amongst the clubs with the same units. Ideas are shared, typical problems are itentified and solutions shared. We share info on best deals from suppliers, inventory of parts if needed for emergancy repairs etc. We also talk with other groomer operators we meet while riding in other areas for feedback on their particular equipment pro or con. Having this info availible in an online forum would definately be an asset for all but I do not think this should be an OFSC initiative. As far as buying groomers through one purchsing entity I do not agree. How many new units were purchased in the last 2 years? The manufactures have a captive market and do not move enough inventory to offer any "volume" discounts. Terrain varies greatly in Ontario and if we are not able to spec out our equipment to suite are we really making the best choice and possibly ending up with a comprimise that may be more of a haedache than any cost saving could offset. Scott Boon BDSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Wild Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 There is a grooming talk message board here: http://www.snowgroominglinks.com/ RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 There is a grooming talk message board here: http://www.snowgroominglinks.com/ RW link does not work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Wild Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The site is Koz's Snowmobiling Links . Try Google or this http://s8.zetaboards.com/snowgroomingtalk/index/ RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white dragon Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 The site is Koz's Snowmobiling Links . Try Google or this http://s8.zetaboards.com/snowgroomingtalk/index/ RW no one using the canadian forum...that may change now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reved Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I'm sure Dom would be more then happy to set a sub forum if there is a need and if something needs to be private there is the PM system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 That is what I recommend. I have changed my mind, let's not think that OFSC would get it done, Dom could set it up right here on OC. Set it up by Groomer Manufacturers to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PISTON LAKE CRUISER Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 My only concern with setting it up on OC is that I believe the content could not be restricted to only people directly involved with the groomers. IMHO the forum would need to be restricted to groomer operators, groomer repair people, mechanics, groomer manufacturers and groomer dealers. Not sure how OC could police that. I have read and asked for info. on a couple of vehicle forums in the past. It seems in those cases that alot of the contributed comments are from people who quite obviously do not have alot of mechanical know how but think they do. There is alot of reading that is a waste of time in some of those forums. To be a valuable resource, the groomer forum would have to contain reliable, concise to the point information so that the participants needing/ requesting information don't get sent down the wrong trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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