bbakernbay Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Here's what we need for Freeloading Snowmobilers who operate on OFSC Trails without a valid Trail Permit. Rather than the Trail Patroller having to identify the Operator, which is impossible with a helmet & shield on, have the province institute the same system as they have done for Red Light Camera Infractions, namely it goes against the Vehicle owner. In Ontario, the fine goes against the owner of the vehicle. In B.C. for example, another person can be nominated to accept the ticket if they agree to do so. The MSVA would also need to be amended to give Trail Patrollers that authority along with the requisite training. That plus a minimum $600 fine should help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Here's what we need for Freeloading Snowmobilers who operate on OFSC Trails without a valid Trail Permit. Rather than the Trail Patroller having to identify the Operator, which is impossible with a helmet & shield on, have the province institute the same system as they have done for Red Light Camera Infractions, namely it goes against the Vehicle owner. In Ontario, the fine goes against the owner of the vehicle. In B.C. for example, another person can be nominated to accept the ticket if they agree to do so. The MSVA would also need to be amended to give Trail Patrollers that authority along with the requisite training. That plus a minimum $600 fine should help a lot. I agree...if I am the owner of s sled, I should be responsible to A- know who I am authorizing its use to, and B- it be properly permitted and have the correct valtag and registration. I don't want to get into the whole valtag issue but... Enforcement is part of the key. I believe STOP is becoming somewhat inconsistent across the Province and non existent in some areas, while in many areas Trail Patrol is alive and well. They are club based and have similar interests but a different mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Ya well here is one that will piss everyone off. Guy at work told me he got stopped by the OPP few weeks back and they didn't even look to see if he had a permit which he didn't. They checked reg and INS than sent him on his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 X2 - What a disgrace that is - What area was that in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 X2 - What a disgrace that is - What area was that in? Port Perry club I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha4ever Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Owners of the sled can be charged: as per MSVA of Ontario. Owner may be convicted 24. The owner of a motorized snow vehicle may be charged with and convicted of an offence under this Act or the regulations or any municipal by-law regulating, governing or prohibiting the operation of motorized snow vehicles, for which the driver of the motorized snow vehicle is subject to be charged unless, at the time of the offence, the motorized snow vehicle was in the possession of a person other than the owner without the owner’s consent and on conviction the owner is liable to the penalty prescribed for the offence. R.S.O. 1990, c. M.44, s. 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamaha4ever Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Sorry, one more thing. I was stopped just east of Midland on Wednesday afternoon by a female OPP officer all upset. Questioning if I had seen a purple Polaris a little while ago. Answer was yes, travelling pretty quick. Driver had failed to stop for her at trail side with fully marked cruiser and full light package on. His buddy did stop though and she had a lengthy chat with him and was able to get all the info she required for charges. Home visit I am sure. She was just checking for val tags and permits stating she knows the costs of running legal and she is trying to stop the freeloaders on our system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddszr600 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Cops around here couldnt care less if you had a permit or not, just want too catch people havin a beer or speeding, etc., their favorite was sitting in a shack with the lights off waiting for someone to come in with a beer. Maybe they have been educated a bit, but with the low snow years and the fact they only borrow sleds a couple times a year its hard to know, but a couple years ago someone had to explain to them what a permit was as they had no clue about it. Hopefully thats changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Port Perry club I believe. Somebody from that club needs to have a chat with the local OPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Somebody from that club needs to have a chat with the local OPP. Not sure if it's the OPP or DRs that patrol in Port Perry's area. I know in the summer the DRs patrol w/ ATVs. I don't know what the Bancroft & Ptbo OPP's take is on the permits. I've never been asked about the paperwork for the trail permit. Maybe if they can see the permit on the sled they leave it @ that. Back in our wardening days (the 90s) if we couldn't sell a person a permit we wrote down the registration number & a brief description of the sled. The info was supposedly passed on to the OPP to file trespassing charges. I don't recall ever hearing of anyone being fined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4mysled Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Cops have to do their job, some do it better than others. I got a ticket on Sat. in Eganville for not having a chin strap done up. My fault, I missed a loop. Typical OPP statement, we have a zero policy on helmut infractions. $110 ticket. But it was the attitude that got me. He asked me 3 times if I had been drinking. But yet I know of a lot of sleds with drivers leaving the races who had been drinking and nothing from the cops. I like to see them on the trails but go after the sledders doing 110 MPH and riding out of control, or the freeloaders, the impaired drivers etc. Work with us not against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Cops have to do their job, some do it better than others. I got a ticket on Sat. in Eganville for not having a chin strap done up. My fault, I missed a loop. Typical OPP statement, we have a zero policy on helmut infractions. $110 ticket. But it was the attitude that got me. He asked me 3 times if I had been drinking. But yet I know of a lot of sleds with drivers leaving the races who had been drinking and nothing from the cops. I like to see them on the trails but go after the sledders doing 110 MPH and riding out of control, or the freeloaders, the impaired drivers etc. Work with us not against us. The Chin Strap, really? That's BS. Some of them make themsleves a joke, others are actually police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flash 800 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 X2 - What a disgrace that is - What area was that in? This very thing just happened to me at the mr gas on the highway. We were gassing up and he pulls in on his cruiser and starts asking for paperwork and plainly said he could care less about the permit just wanted ownership and insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 We were stopped outside of Pembroke yesterday by the OPP. They made a point of looking for Val Tag, Numbers AND PERMIT. Took them a couple of minutes to find Moosifer's on his Chrome Red windshield No problems or attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Cops have to do their job, some do it better than others. I got a ticket on Sat. in Eganville for not having a chin strap done up. My fault, I missed a loop. Typical OPP statement, we have a zero policy on helmut infractions. $110 ticket. But it was the attitude that got me. He asked me 3 times if I had been drinking. But yet I know of a lot of sleds with drivers leaving the races who had been drinking and nothing from the cops. I like to see them on the trails but go after the sledders doing 110 MPH and riding out of control, or the freeloaders, the impaired drivers etc. Work with us not against us. Had same happen in Sudbury area....Permits/Val tags and chin straps all they were looking for......check your straps if u ride with them loose,they may come undo and u may not know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Here's what we need for Freeloading Snowmobilers who operate on OFSC Trails without a valid Trail Permit. Rather than the Trail Patroller having to identify the Operator, which is impossible with a helmet & shield on, have the province institute the same system as they have done for Red Light Camera Infractions, namely it goes against the Vehicle owner. In Ontario, the fine goes against the owner of the vehicle. In B.C. for example, another person can be nominated to accept the ticket if they agree to do so. The MSVA would also need to be amended to give Trail Patrollers that authority along with the requisite training. That plus a minimum $600 fine should help a lot. I agree bb...but some clubs are running thin on bodies and trail patrol would have to go thru alot of BS if they were given the power to hand out fines....IMO we need the OPP/local police etc starting at the BIG SHOW as the palace calls it with 1000 dollar min fine...get it posted in all the mags etc and radio etc and they will be scared to ride.....they will have 2 options buy permit or stay home....once a few get 1000dollar fines the word will get around......bad news travels fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Ya well here is one that will piss everyone off. Guy at work told me he got stopped by the OPP few weeks back and they didn't even look to see if he had a permit which he didn't. They checked reg and INS than sent him on his way. We were stopped by OPP near Port Severn and one guy in our group had bought the permit but forgot it at home. The police just checked for license stickers and waved us through, not even insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The Chin Strap, really? That's BS. Some of them make themsleves a joke, others are actually police. Yup for sure, we have a city cop that goes after trailers, and makes a killing on so called unsafe loads. He stopped me once, sled tied at 4 points will new straps, he asked me if I figured it was safe. I said Yes, he asked me what gives me the right to say that? Told him the card in my wallet from the Ministry of Trades that says I'm a qualified industrial rigger. He face went a little red and he let me go... One of those moments I wish I had on video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucking Pig Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Yup for sure, we have a city cop that goes after trailers, and makes a killing on so called unsafe loads. He stopped me once, sled tied at 4 points will new straps, he asked me if I figured it was safe. I said Yes, he asked me what gives me the right to say that? Told him the card in my wallet from the Ministry of Trades that says I'm a qualified industrial rigger. He face went a little red and he let me go... One of those moments I wish I had on video I just love it when that happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 I agree that $1,000 Minimum Fine may just be the quickest and easiest way to get started next year. trail Permits may cost less but don't get caught on the Trail without one or else you're $1,000 poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I here every excuse you could possibly imagine. The season is nearing the end in our part of the country but people have the permit in their pocket. - I have a new windshield on order... I'm waiting for it to come - I'm thinking of buying a new sled and want to put it on that sled if I buy it - It's too cold to put it on even though it is a relatively nice and warm day - This is the first time I have been on a trail so I didn't think I needed one - I just bought the sled. How come the MTO didn't tell me I needed a trail permit when I transferred ownership. (His friend he was riding with knew he needed one) - I'm using the trail to get to my cottage. He is on the trail in Six Mile Lake Park and his cottage is near Swift Rapids on the Severn River. $1000.00 and a few people charged and convicted will sure change the attitude quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I agree that $1,000 Minimum Fine may just be the quickest and easiest way to get started next year. trail Permits may cost less but don't get caught on the Trail without one or else you're $1,000 poorer. That would really help. Ofsc needs to allow 3 and 7 day permits to be printed off at home. With the barcode technology, trail patrol can scan them and verify they are legit and in date. Then there will be no excuse for not riding without a permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 That would really help. Ofsc needs to allow 3 and 7 day permits to be printed off at home. With the barcode technology, trail patrol can scan them and verify they are legit and in date. Then there will be no excuse for not riding without a permit. where is the money going to come from for those hand held scanners? People object to having to slow down as the trail permits are checked. How do you think they would respond to actually having to come to a full stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 where is the money going to come from for those hand held scanners? People object to having to slow down as the trail permits are checked. How do you think they would respond to actually having to come to a full stop? Any smart phone can do the scan with an app. Most people have them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 most volounteers Trail patrollers are old and sure not so smart phone app savy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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