DaveTess Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Well as some of you know Tess and I are new to sledding and went out again this weekend. Started in the Everett area up to Glencairn to Signhampton, stopped for lunch, up to Osler Bluffs and back across "B" to Stayner to Glencairn back to Alliston. About 8 hours and 160km's. Your probably wondering why the title above. In todays enviroment in regards to "Drinking and Driving, Sledding, Boating" whatever we were shocked at the blantent disregard for the law. At lunch we were in the reasturant and a gentlement driving solo came in just behind us. We were there one hour and this guy has 4 beesr, yes 4. Thats's one every 15 minutes then jumps on his sled as we left and off he goes. Holy Cow cant believe my eyes! We stopped at two large maps along the trail for directions and low and behold there's sitting on the ground at one was two fresh empty beer cans and at the other three empty bottles. Are we that stupid as a group that we think we cant hurt anybody just because it's a sled? Or are we thinking it'll never happen to us. We were stund. After reading the Montreal Gazette thias evening with another 5 deaths this past weekend , they have 16 deaths already in Quebec this season, some alcohol related and here in Ontario we've had our share of alcohol stupid sledding deaths. Why is this? Have Tess and I been living in cave and this is the norm in sledding or is it that 5 to 10 percent of idiots that just don't get it or give a dam? Ride where ever, in whatever state and whatever speed, and piss on eveyone else. It's to bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bark Biter Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Some just do not give a heck about themselves or others out there that is for sure. I just hope not to become a statistic some day due to someone elses carelessness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Believe it or not it has improved . Some just do not get the message though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo Doo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No kidding, i notice more than a few guys doing this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Some people can't live with out their beer, which is sad. I don't ride with anyone who can't wait until the ride is over for the day before we break out the beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecarnell Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The only thing that will change is more OPP on the trails doing spot checks and handing out tickets. Eventually they will get the point, unfortunately. Biggest worry is these guys not staying on their side of the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If you can't wait until the end of the day, there's a definate problem. When we're up north on our trips, the sleds are parked, the "luggage" in the room & we'll have a couple when we're checking the sleds over. Usually chatting w/ other sledders as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 There are a few bad apples. I wouldn't say it is the norm at all. Last year the police stopped hundreds of sledders outside of our clubhouse and didn't find one sledder over the limit. It is getting better with the tougher drinking and driving regulations. I see more people drinking and riding on the weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It is still a huge issue. How many sledders do you see go into a restaurant that is licensed, and knock back a few beers with lunch? I see it all the time. I see empties tossed in the snow. You stop to talk to guys and somebody reeks of booze. The only way the message will get out is higher enforcement and there isn't the manpower to do that on the trails. There are a few bad apples. I wouldn't say it is the norm at all. Last year the police stopped hundreds of sledders outside of our clubhouse and didn't find one sledder over the limit. It is getting better with the tougher drinking and driving regulations. I see more people drinking and riding on the weekends. Not picking on your comment..you mention not one over the limit..but how many had at least one beer or alcoholic beverage? A lot of the time a spotcheck set up to check papers, insurance, registration, passes is not designed to screen for alcohol. That officer may not even be a breath-tech. If they were to find somebody impaired they would have to call a breath-tech to attend and administer a screening test. I would bet that unless it is obvious...the guy with one beer in his belly will roll on through. Case in point. I stopped for gas on Saturday and was talking to some sledders about the trails. They indicated the OPP were parked at a side-road where a trail crosses. The fellow I spoke with was saying all they were doing was checking valtags and permits and if everything was in order, they did not even step close to your sled. There is no way an officer would even smell a beer on you in that situation. I think it is still a bigger problem than what people want to admit to. Save the beverages until the end of the day. To Dave and Tess: The majority of sledders are great people out to enjoy the sport. They are courteous and helpful. There are still quite a few who are not getting the drinking and driving message. Enjoy the sport and hope you have a safe fun Winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackher Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree with WB It IS getting better. But I must say that while 4 beers for a stop over lunch is excessive. havin one maybe two over the course of a nice lunch is not irresponsible drinking at all. I must say that in this day and age of government intervention we as a society are starting to lose our sense of morality, mortatlity and respect. There is nothing wrong with having a beer with lunch. the common person that normally consumes a beverage or two throughout the week is not going to be impaired (now after several that all changes yes). But I am really tired hearing about how one is too much and all this "zero tollerance" malarchy. Do people drink too much yes, will they stop no, not till they are dead. should we try to help them slow down and become more responsible yes...should all this be at the expense of a free society built on personal moral decision making no. I must ask have did you say something to the server that perhaps they have had enough? I know it is not the "easy" thing to do or not the non-confrontational thing to do. And before anyone go and barks at me for saying these things...I too have been affected by a drunk driver. I was hit point blank in my own driveway by a drunk fool that destroyed my truck, trailer and gate I could not walk for almost 2 months and this jerk did not have a valid drivers license for nearly 5 years (all drinking related offenses). where was zero torellerance then huh, and better yet the son of a bitch got jack...off on a technicality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Dave youve been living in a cave. It is Waaaaay better than it once was, but its the bush, and its not illegal yet to have a drink as long as your blood alcohol is under .05 (which for most is 2-3 drinks in 1-2hrs) 4 in an hour will put most over the legal limit, is excessive & uncommon IMO. My family and friends would do picnics all thetime out in the woods, beer, wine, a sniff of something finer maybe.. Nobody got tanked as everyone was a respectable professional. Drinking isnt illegal as I mentioned above but thanks to MADD and other similar organizations people have this idea that anyone whos got alcohol in their system is automatically at risk and a criminal. Leaving the empty on the trail is worse than have A beer IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 One or two beers isn't the problem. It is the guy who knocks back three..four ..or more. Many of the restaurants we like to haunt as sledders don't make much money on the guy who orders a diet coke with his $9.99 banquet burger for lunch. They make the money on the groups of guys who come in and have a few beers or drinks with that lunch. A bigger problem are the guys who go out and ice fish all day, swill a beer or two and hour, but then over the course of a full day on the ice, come in loaded! I know..I used to do that years ago. I learned. I was caught in a wicked snowstorm on a back lake. Almost got lost coming home and I know for sure that if something happened, I was done for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackher Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 One or two beers isn't the problem. It is the guy who knocks back three..four ..or more. Many of the restaurants we like to haunt as sledders don't make much money on the guy who orders a diet coke with his $9.99 banquet burger for lunch. They make the money on the groups of guys who come in and have a few beers or drinks with that lunch. True, so in lieu of safety the rest. jepordizes the industry the people and the riders...I say hold the resto responsible...after they are the ones with the "smart serve" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree with you but there are many out there who are adamant that it is socially acceptable to drink and drive a seld. There is one individual who is so passionate on some of the forums about it who believes 6 over lunch is nothing. He also believes that since there is less traffic than on a highway it is also just fine. We had lunch in Sprucedale on Saturday and Maple Valley Sunday. It never ceases to amaze me the quantity of beer that is consumed by some of these people over lunch then they hop on their sleds. As for Fred's comment regarding the officer being a breath-tech. I don't believe they have to be. My understanding is that they run the road/trail side breathalyzer and then if you are over there they take you to the station where they have to administer the test within two hours of your being stopped. If the OPP set up checks down the trail on either side of some of these watering holes they may drive home the point. I know word would spread quickly but if they set up at say 1:30 in the afternoon. Anyone leaving who had too much would be done for sure. Open the face shield on the helmet, look at the eyes and take a whiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not all officers are actually trained in breathalyzers. If not, you have to get a tech to the scene. In the city it is more common to have trained staff, but it doesn't always happen out in the middle of nowhere. Then there is the issue of having a properly calibrated unit. Many don't realize that it is not uncommon for an alert device nowhere to be found. They are few in number, and have to be maintained tightly. One of the biggest driving forces in reducing this activity is going to be peer pressure. If one member of a group steps up and tells somebody else in the sledding group that they have had enough, and take his key. They will send the biggest message at the grass roots level. That is what happened in the four wheeled world. Kids these days are more alert and responsible to drinking and driving than ever before. The 40-55 year olds remain the same or worse, when it comes to sledding, boating, ATV ing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 One of the biggest driving forces in reducing this activity is going to be peer pressure. If one member of a group steps up and tells somebody else in the sledding group that they have had enough, and take his key. They will send the biggest message at the grass roots level. That is what happened in the four wheeled world. Kids these days are more alert and responsible to drinking and driving than ever before. The 40-55 year olds remain the same or worse, when it comes to sledding, boating, ATV ing... This is what will change the attitude, not enforcement, IMO. There are just too many areas to patrol to change attitudes. Setting up outside a watering hole will only adversely affect that business. The word will spread and the drinkers will go elsewhere. IMO, sledding requires your full faculties to stay in control at all times. I will not drink, even one, until the sleds are away for the night. The Zero Tolerance does sound a bit over the top, but I, for one, will adhere to it. And I would probably not continue to ride with anyone who has more than one during the riding day. As for the bottles and cans left as litter, the littering just displays the lack of respect for other people's property so prevalent in our society. However, I do not believe that people for out with 'just one' for a day of riding. Just this weekend, we observed a fellow getting ready to ride and walking over to his sled with helmet in one hand and six pack in the other. But, as WB says, it is getting better, but now it is up to us, as responsible riders, to lat others know that it is unacceptable and we will not ride with them if they are going to drink. JMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackher Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not all officers are actually trained in breathalyzers. If not, you have to get a tech to the scene. In the city it is more common to have trained staff, but it doesn't always happen out in the middle of nowhere. Then there is the issue of having a properly calibrated unit. Many don't realize that it is not uncommon for an alert device nowhere to be found. They are few in number, and have to be maintained tightly. One of the biggest driving forces in reducing this activity is going to be peer pressure. If one member of a group steps up and tells somebody else in the sledding group that they have had enough, and take his key. They will send the biggest message at the grass roots level. That is what happened in the four wheeled world. Kids these days are more alert and responsible to drinking and driving than ever before. The 40-55 year olds remain the same or worse, when it comes to sledding, boating, ATV ing... Again Fred, I have to agree...taking the keys is the the single best method to improve the quality of the group. because that guy/gal will listen to you and will stop consuming when the opprotunity presents itself and the same people who took the keys last time are there. if enough people do this it will be curbed...not by the government. Hell I know I can tip them back, but I dont because it is not responsible and I want those around me to see me as a responsible person... and the majority are not kids, b/c their parent are no understanding that while it was socially responsble then it is not now. but food for thought.... everyone will agree that people that drink regularly have a high tolerance for alcohol and that people who do not drink have no tolerance. is it still responsible for you to ask a "seasoned drinker", not a drunkard for their key even though you know that person is ok to drive? I mean really I am not impaired after 2 maybe three beers and I have asked the OPP prior to getting into my car to "check" with the appropriate tests if I OK to drive. the result time and time again is that "yes sir you are not "impaired", I cannot say that you should drive, since you have consumed alcohol so may I suggest you take another method of transport home or get someone else to drive, and I do" No I am not a small person, and I drink on ocassion so 2-3 over lunch is not going to knock me over nor make my impaired...and I dont care what MADD advertisment says otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I am also of the opinion that this problem has drastically improved in the last 10 years. That said, I have also seen the beer cans popped at the trail intersection, empties in the snow and the pounding back of a few during a lunch stop. I never ride with these types, and I never will. I tried ATVing a few years back and I found that this problem was in it prime. It was a major factor to me selling the ATVs and moving on to Boating. There is a lot of drinking involved in boating also, however it is primarily at the docks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 But I am really tired hearing about how one is too much and all this "zero tollerance" malarchy. It is so easy to fudge the numbers. The fact of the matter is that driving late at night is far more dangerous than driving during the day, even when completely sober. Why are people driving late at night? The primary reason is to leave a venue that has been serving alcohol (bar, party, etc.); there is not much else to do at that hour. It is no wonder a disproportionate number of accidents are correlated to alcohol consumption, even if the alcohol component played no role at all. I won't discount that driving while intoxicated can be dangerous, I just hate the presentation. Give us the hard data, not the silly catchphrases that tell us nothing at all. If driving with one or many drinks is dangerous, the numbers will speak for themselves. I've looked for the raw data, but it has been difficult to come by. That always makes me suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 This is what will change the attitude, not enforcement, IMO. There are just too many areas to patrol to change attitudes. Setting up outside a watering hole will only adversely affect that business. The word will spread and the drinkers will go elsewhere. IMO, sledding requires your full faculties to stay in control at all times. I will not drink, even one, until the sleds are away for the night. The Zero Tolerance does sound a bit over the top, but I, for one, will adhere to it. And I would probably not continue to ride with anyone who has more than one during the riding day. As for the bottles and cans left as litter, the littering just displays the lack of respect for other people's property so prevalent in our society. However, I do not believe that people for out with 'just one' for a day of riding. Just this weekend, we observed a fellow getting ready to ride and walking over to his sled with helmet in one hand and six pack in the other. But, as WB says, it is getting better, but now it is up to us, as responsible riders, to lat others know that it is unacceptable and we will not ride with them if they are going to drink. JMO! Agree with you 100%, SJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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