Viperules700 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Which is the better engine choice from skidoo. The etec or the 1200 4 stroke. I will be getting a 137" grand touring (mostly solo riding with the occasional passenger) Some riders are telling me to get the etc, since the 4 stroke is to heavy. Others say get the four stroke, because the etec has sealed crank bearings and is a ticking time bomb. Then the dealer pushes the etec's, because they say they are less maintiance and better on fuel. (even though u need high octane in the etec's)Maybe they want to sell me 2 stroke oil. grrrrr. So I would like to hear from a few owners of both and see what they have to say. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I am not an owner of either but I have a 4 stroke and if you ride trails the weight is really not a big deal at all. How often would you really get stuck on trail and have to muscle the sled out of the snow? I would get the 4 stroke if you ride trails. I can't see myself going back to a 2 stroke since I have ridden a 4 stroke sled for trail riding. It all depends on where you ride. IMO 4 strokes are better trail sleds and 2 strokes are better off trail sleds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 I am not an owner of either but I have a 4 stroke and if you ride trails the weight is really not a big deal at all. How often would you really get stuck on trail and have to muscle the sled out of the snow? I would get the 4 stroke if you ride trails. I can't see myself going back to a 2 stroke since I have ridden a 4 stroke sled for trail riding. It all depends on where you ride. IMO 4 strokes are better trail sleds and 2 strokes are better off trail sleds. I trail ride mostly with the occasional off trail side adventure. I keep sleds for 4-8 years, depending on how it treats me I really like the yammies, but I need something that is comfortable for an occasional passenger. Grrrrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Another factor is how many km's do you put a season. If you put 3 or 4k a year for 4 years that 12 to 16 thousand km. 4 stroke will last thank long 2 strokes with today's gas quality, not so sure. Just my opinion though. Are the 2 up yamys not comfortable? Never tried it. Ya know the yammy with last you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchrocket500 Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Great topic. Sorta in the same boat, 4 stroke or etect. In-law has the 09GSX etect and she loves it. had a few problems, failed senser and one other miner thing I can't recall. Thing is, I don't think many will be fixing those in their back yard when they put the miles on. I mainly ride the trails, alone, and like to put the miles on. Like to go 4 stroke for the durability and and ability to rack the miles up on the sled. Won't go new though as long as BRP keeps the big price difference between Can/US. Be interesting to read what others have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Which is the better engine choice from skidoo. The etec or the 1200 4 stroke. I will be getting a 137" grand touring (mostly solo riding with the occasional passenger) Some riders are telling me to get the etc, since the 4 stroke is to heavy. Others say get the four stroke, because the etec has sealed crank bearings and is a ticking time bomb. Then the dealer pushes the etec's, because they say they are less maintiance and better on fuel. (even though u need high octane in the etec's)Maybe they want to sell me 2 stroke oil. grrrrr. So I would like to hear from a few owners of both and see what they have to say. Thanks for your input. It is a great topic and, at the end of the day, I don't think you are going to be able to make your decision based on truly objective measurements. You'll decide based on what you want. The closest you'll come to objectivity is whether or not you want to spend the extra bucks to go to the 4 stroke. And even that can be rationalized. Weight? How much powder riding, ditch banging do you do ? Oil? I doubt you will find much, if any, difference between the cost of a season of oil consumption for the eTEC and the cost of an oil change for the 4TEC. Fuel consumption is great on the eTEC's and thankfully it is because they are looking for high octane. But, I doubt the difference between the cost of a high mpg high octane eTEC and a lower mpg low octane 4TEC is going to be the tipping point. Either way. Top end? Why? It's a touring sled. If you are considering 4 stroke, why are you leaving the Yamaha brand? I've heard great things about the comfort of their touring sled. (RS Venture GT?). I can't believe I just said that ! Yamaha 4 stroke "sounds" better than the BRP. So, if you're in it for the sound you probably also ride a Harley and not a Suzuki. (Not that there is anything wrong with Suzuki, ok guys?) I'm not sure there is enough difference between the two BRP engines you are considering to make a decision on anything but what you think you are going to enjoy riding more. Except the acquisition price. Tough call. I know. I went through the same last spring. Good Luck. And don't worry, either one you choose you're going to love !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 -Similar situation with the occasional rider. Ordered a Renegade to add the snap on passenger seat later...beaucoup des dollares...but happy life happy wife. Long track and 200 lbs. lighter than touring couch. Available in many engine sizes and strokes. -One morning arrived Gravenhurst docks at 6 am to join Doonut's Say Goodbye to Yer Carbides Lake Tour, fired up the 2 stroke, and created very large blue cloud of smoke. Could imagine some guy sitting at his condo window with his coffee, reaching over for 'Today's Do List' and jotting down 'close sled trail'. Took one for the bigger team, acted responsibly environmentally and got the small 4 stroke offering on sled. News of the occasional fan 550 model blowing up influenced the decision. Yamaha? Their corporate mechanical rep couldn't fix my 9.9 hp outboard despite 12 videos showing blowing blue smoke, their machines are way overpriced, and members here seem to have a lot of driveshaft/bearing failures, often in remote places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Similar experience with my yamaha outboard motor, Slomo. 100 hp 4 stroke. Blue smoke on start, when boat not used for a while. Under warranty, advised it was condensation. Never required oil, so believed the dealer. Running fine, 9 years later, albeit with dreaded blue smoke. As for the Ski-doo 1200, we saw many hi mileage examples on our late season trip to Cochrane. Riders had no major issues. One guy said he switched from Yamaha long track Apex to the 1200 for 'the ride'. A dealer provided a 1200 for customers to test on multiple day trips. Great idea. I suspect that once you ride a Doo, turning an older Apex will feel like you're steering an aircraft carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If weight is a big concern you wouldn't likely be looking at a touring couch. Yes the 4 stroke is heavier than the 2 stroke. We ride the trails on 4 strokes. One a Cat and the other a Skidoo. Realizing they are heavier than the 2 stroke we carry a small boat winch in the storage compartment so we can crank a stuck sled out if we have to. So far we haven't had to. I imagine the first time we set out without it we will need it. When we rode 2 stroke we didn't really notice it out on the trail but now that we don't we do notice the distinct 2 stroke aroma. We now let the 2 strokers ride behind the 4 strokers due to the exhaust smell. The offshoot benefit is that the sled suits are no longer banished to the bowels of the basement when we get home. No smell. Personally I like not having to worry about buying oil and filling the reservoir. One of the things that won't happen with a 4 stroke happened to a friend of mine this past winter and he wasn't the first. In a hurry to get ready he topped up the oil. Became distracted and forgot to put the cap back on the reservoir. Closed the lid and went riding. The result oil all over the inside of the sled, on the running board, on his new floater suit pants and a pain to clean up in cold weather. The bottom line is it will come to personal preference as there are + an - for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpsrent Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I'm a current E-tec owner but I have extensive experience on the 1200 4 stroke. If you keep a sled for 8 years, my advice is buy the 1200. Two stroke reliability is far better than it use to be but you can't beat a four stroke for long term durability. The fuel gains that the 600 Etec delivers over the 1200 (I've compared them many times) is offest by the once per season 4 stroke oil change and the use of regular octane fuel. Don't even think about it, get the 1200 and this is coming from a happy Etec owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Ordered a Renegade to add the snap on passenger seat later...beaucoup des dollares...but happy life happy wife. Long track and 200 lbs. lighter than touring couch. Available in many engine sizes and strokes. .... got the small 4 stroke offering on sled. Slomo, congrats on the New Ride !!! Welcome back to the trails next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 If you keep a sled for 8 years, my advice is buy the 1200. Two stroke reliability is far better than it use to be but you can't beat a four stroke for long term durability. The fuel gains that the 600 Etec delivers over the 1200 (I've compared them many times) is offest by the once per season 4 stroke oil change and the use of regular octane fuel. Don't even think about it, get the 1200 and this is coming from a happy Etec owner. He said it, if you keep your sled for 8 year i would go with the 4 stroke. Since I went 4 stroke 3 seasons ago I have not missed a single ride due to a problem with my sled. Just a side question looking for info, how much $ would a guy go though on oil for a 600 Etec in a 4000km's season riding fairly aggressively? My seasonly oil change costs me around 50 bucks for yamaha synthetic oil and filter. There are other 4 strokes to consider. Take a look at cat, my father has a 4 stroke touring cat and he loves it. The drive shaft issues with the yamahas as far as I know are isolated to the 2009 and older apex. The bearing that fails is the clutch side drive shaft and it takes 5 mins to clean and re grease once a season and guys that do this have had very good luck with it. Water finds it way in and causes issues, clean it out and fresh grease and in theory they should last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Slomo, congrats on the New Ride !!! Welcome back to the trails next season X 2, slomo -- great choice. I've heard really good things about that 600 ACE motor. Quite peppy up to 50-60 mph, but runs out of breath fairly quickly above that...but I suspect that won't matter to you. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I'm a current E-tec owner but I have extensive experience on the 1200 4 stroke. If you keep a sled for 8 years, my advice is buy the 1200. Two stroke reliability is far better than it use to be but you can't beat a four stroke for long term durability. The fuel gains that the 600 Etec delivers over the 1200 (I've compared them many times) is offest by the once per season 4 stroke oil change and the use of regular octane fuel. Don't even think about it, get the 1200 and this is coming from a happy Etec owner. Well-said mpsrent, and I can't help but agree, as I just grappled with the same dilemma in deciding on my spring order for a 2012 sled, and ultimately went to the 1200. Although I have some lingering trepidation about the extra weight of the 4-TEC, I'm looking forward to its trail torque and regular fuel appetite...and, to be frank, to not having to add oil. However, my wife's sled is an '09 E-TEC Renegade, now with 6,500 mostly trouble-free kms...so we've got one of each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Just a side question looking for info, how much $ would a guy go though on oil for a 600 Etec in a 4000km's season riding fairly aggressively? My seasonly oil change costs me around 50 bucks for yamaha synthetic oil and filter. I did about 3,500 km's this season and did not use 8 litres of oil. I use the Full synthetic for which I pay 35.00 for 4 litres. Let's say (for the sake of easier arithmetic) I used a full 8 litres. My cost for oil this season was about 70 bucks. Some pay more than that for an oil change, some pay less than that for an oil change. Whatever the cost, the price difference for oil vs oil change is not sufficient enough to tip the balance in favour of either engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 I did about 3,500 km's this season and did not use 8 litres of oil. I use the Full synthetic for which I pay 35.00 for 4 litres. Let's say (for the sake of easier arithmetic) I used a full 8 litres. My cost for oil this season was about 70 bucks. Some pay more than that for an oil change, some pay less than that for an oil change. Whatever the cost, the price difference for oil vs oil change is not sufficient enough to tip the balance in favour of either engine. Thanks, was looking for a ball park figure for my brother. I do the oil chAnge myself. I agree the price of the oil in not a deal breaker just looking for info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 snow Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 Went from 25,000 km on various 600 SDIs to a 1200 E-tec. Biggest reasons was durability and not doing a rebuild on a 2-stroke again. After only riding a bout 1200 miles this season, I do love my 4Tec. But the thing that hit me on the way home from Gaspe this year was that this was what I called the "lowest maintenance sled" because I never even opened the hood or side panels. Others make many great points on pros & cons, but for me, the up front premium was a no brainer. I do love the 4tec torque. Bottom line, can't go wrong either way, but anyone who has gone to a 4tec loves it and won't go back to a 2 stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 The 1200 four stroke will likely outlast at least 6 e-tec engines. The e-tec reliability has been spotty the 1200 seems very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 You will be happy with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted April 15, 2011 Share Posted April 15, 2011 600 is pretty good......800 is junk......1200 is very good 10/11.....just snowchecked a 1200x gade myself........goodluck shopping imo get a gade and add the 1+1 unless u have company with u quite often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 600 is pretty good......800 is junk......1200 is very good 10/11.....just snowchecked a 1200x gade myself........goodluck shopping imo get a gade and add the 1+1 unless u have company with u quite often. Thanks for everyone's great imput. I'm going to try the 4 stroke 1200. Just the fact I don't have to worry as much about gas quailty, no more real smokey clothing is a real bonus,the sled is lighter then my 03 viper (so weight isn't a real issue after I thought about it for abit). I was looking at the gades, but the extra seat was around 1100 can extra. Grand touring had a few extra goodies, like a taller windscreen at the expensense of cheaper motion control shocks again. Maybe I can get the seat in the us and save a few bucks . I like yamaha's realibilty, just not there ride and handling. It seems you really have to findle with their sleds straight from the box. Fact I would have to up grade the ski's straight from the factory is another reason, I'm going back to skidoo. I have owned all of the brand's, except for actic cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 For the 1+ 1 seat you could consider this which Wild Bill is stocking: http://www.admsport.com/achat/rototech/6714-478/rototeck-2-up-snomobile-seat:en An alternative to the $1K plus seat is an elongated seat from BRP that snaps on after which you add a back rest. Don't have model numbers handy, but total cost is around $ 600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 Slomo, congrats on the New Ride !!! Welcome back to the trials next season X 2, slomo -- great choice. I've heard really good things about that 600 ACE motor. Quite peppy up to 50-60 mph, but runs out of breath fairly quickly above that...but I suspect that won't matter to you. Enjoy! Thank you....I must say, was sitting on the fence for awhile but all the trail stories on the forum from folks such as yourselves got me going again. Ms. slomo also insisted on a new machine as a reward for me quitting smoking tobacco. Had an opportunity to test drive the ACE600 and found it had plenty of zip and should be fine for me....after all 60 mph works out to 100 kph ! (have actually heard someone broke 70 mph on it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The ACE sounds like a nice little engine. What hp come out of one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 The ACE sounds like a nice little engine. What hp come out of one of those? Haven't seen any "official" BRP hp rating, but have seen published reports of around 60 hp. More importantly, it is also reported to be fairly torquey, and thus zips right along at typical trail speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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