OFSC at it again

[b-bry]

Holy crap, Batman! Watching this thread makes me think none of you guys have a life! IT WAS A SIMPLE MAILING PROMOTION !!!! NOTHING MORE !!!!!!!

The OFSC website clearly indicated this offer comes with every permit sold. If you don't like it, throw it out and move on with your life.

GEEEEZZZZ !

Maybe it's just Post Sleddum Depression causing the bad moods.

[skidooer]

If you'd like to come out to a meeting or give a hand on the trail we can discuss your idea and work with you first hand to better explain why it may or not work

I believe the OFSC is a worthy cause to put your volunteer time towards, and I have to commend you for your incredibly hard efforts with the organization, Nutter. With that said, the OFSC is not the only volunteer organization that has appeal for would-be volunteers. Given the nature of my, and other fine folks like usedtoskidoo's, commitments in life, time available for volunteering is sporadic. I might have a week available this week and not be able to assist again for months.

The many other organizations I have investigated, and have spent time volunteering for, allow me to jump in and out as I am available; maximizing the amount of work I am able to complete during my available volunteering time. Meetings are passive allowing me to join a meeting when I am available, not when the clock says it has to happen. I may not be available for OFSC club meetings or helping out on the trail at the predefined dates set forth by the club, but that does not mean that I am not interested in helping at all.

I realize that the OFSC does have some time sensitive work that must be done. You cannot mark trails in the middle of the summer, for example. I may not necessarily be a good fit for those roles, but there are many other tasks that need not be completed in such a small and specific window of time. The stringent rules set forth by your clubs prevent me from even helping there. Ultimately, that means that I will find some other activity and you will have more burden on your already limited time.

As I have said before, I do not expect you to change anything for me. You are free to run the show the way you believe it should be run. I am just trying to help explain why so many are unable to help even when they would love to. I offer suggestions not as an order, but to help you think of ways to get the much needed assistance that you frequently seek. I do apologize that the ideas are presented hundreds of miles away from your locale instead of face-to-face, but honestly, I do not see how that makes any difference.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

If you'd like to come out to a meeting or give a hand on the trail we can discuss your idea and work with you first hand to better explain why it may or not work

I believe the OFSC is a worthy cause to put your volunteer time towards, and I have to commend you for your incredibly hard efforts with the organization, Nutter. With that said, the OFSC is not the only volunteer organization that has appeal for would-be volunteers. Given the nature of my, and other fine folks like usedtoskidoo's, commitments in life, time available for volunteering is sporadic. I might have a week available this week and not be able to assist again for months.

The many other organizations I have investigated, and have spent time volunteering for, allow me to jump in and out as I am available; maximizing the amount of work I am able to complete during my available volunteering time. Meetings are passive allowing me to join a meeting when I am available, not when the clock says it has to happen. I may not be available for OFSC club meetings or helping out on the trail at the predefined dates set forth by the club, but that does not mean that I am not interested in helping at all.

I realize that the OFSC does have some time sensitive work that must be done. You cannot mark trails in the middle of the summer, for example. I may not necessarily be a good fit for those roles, but there are many other tasks that need not be completed in such a small and specific window of time. The stringent rules set forth by your clubs prevent me from even helping there. Ultimately, that means that I will find some other activity and you will have more burden on your already limited time.

As I have said before, I do not expect you to change anything for me. You are free to run the show the way you believe it should be run. I am just trying to help explain why so many are unable to help even when they would love to. I offer suggestions not as an order, but to help you think of ways to get the much needed assistance that you frequently seek. I do apologize that the ideas are presented hundreds of miles away from your locale instead of face-to-face, but honestly, I do not see how that makes any difference.

Probably should attend a club meeting to say what you have to say so its heard! :poke:

[Nutter]

If you'd like to come out to a meeting or give a hand on the trail we can discuss your idea and work with you first hand to better explain why it may or not work

I believe the OFSC is a worthy cause to put your volunteer time towards, and I have to commend you for your incredibly hard efforts with the organization, Nutter. With that said, the OFSC is not the only volunteer organization that has appeal for would-be volunteers. Given the nature of my, and other fine folks like usedtoskidoo's, commitments in life, time available for volunteering is sporadic. I might have a week available this week and not be able to assist again for months.

The many other organizations I have investigated, and have spent time volunteering for, allow me to jump in and out as I am available; maximizing the amount of work I am able to complete during my available volunteering time. Meetings are passive allowing me to join a meeting when I am available, not when the clock says it has to happen. I may not be available for OFSC club meetings or helping out on the trail at the predefined dates set forth by the club, but that does not mean that I am not interested in helping at all.

I realize that the OFSC does have some time sensitive work that must be done. You cannot mark trails in the middle of the summer, for example. I may not necessarily be a good fit for those roles, but there are many other tasks that need not be completed in such a small and specific window of time. The stringent rules set forth by your clubs prevent me from even helping there. Ultimately, that means that I will find some other activity and you will have more burden on your already limited time.

As I have said before, I do not expect you to change anything for me. You are free to run the show the way you believe it should be run. I am just trying to help explain why so many are unable to help even when they would love to. I offer suggestions not as an order, but to help you think of ways to get the much needed assistance that you frequently seek. I do apologize that the ideas are presented hundreds of miles away from your locale instead of face-to-face, but honestly, I do not see how that makes any difference.

Just a few things other then trail work that have very laxed time limits (basically the whole off season) and that can be done from home ...

- web design and site maintenance .. can be done from home at any time

- soliciting new club sponsors .. can be done from home at any time

- off season and next season event planning - can be done from home at any time (camping trips, BBQ's, pot lucks, card nights ... ect)

- work on motions and by-law amendments that can better improve operations at all levels, club, association, district and provincial - can be done from home and can be done at any time, no real time limit

- club historian - can be done from home with no time limit (EG .. correlate photos and news paper clipping from previous season and put them into albums or on DVD ...ect)

- work on volunteer and land owner appreciation awards program - can be done from home (EG .. select nominees, put together gift/award packages, set up banquet plans .. ect)

- book keeping .. can be done from home

- data entry .. can be done from home (enter volunteer hours and insurance info, permit tracking system entry, close risk management reports .. ect)

- answer club e-mails, letters, phone inquires - can be done from home

... ect.

A few things other then trail work that have very laxed time limits but are done outside of the home (basically the whole off season)

- off season groomer and drag service ... can be done at any time, no real time limit other then next Dec

- paint inside and outside of club house and groomer shed, and other maintenance related things (EG .. cleaning moving in out donated furniture, grass cutting,

- following up land owner complaints and rectify them (EG .. fence mending, landscape repair .. ect)

- collect prizes for up coming seasons charity events from sponsors

- recruit student volunteers (make appointments with guidance councilors to visit high schools and speak to students)

- help plan and attend club adopt a road clean up days

- assist other interest groups in a club effort in their fundraising events

- help host and coordinate off season events

... ect.

There's many many more things that need doing in the off season that are not very time sensitive ...... there's something for everyones skill and interest level and time available.

Believe it or not over my years of being involved with my club as primary recruiter/welcome guy, through asking new volunteers after they have been around for a season, I have found the 3 main reasons some don't come out and help, 1 is they are actually afraid too, because they feel they will not live up their own expectations of what they think volunteering is all about. 2. is they are afraid because they feel they wont fit in .... 3. is they just don't want to ..... which is ok with most of us, as long as they don't sit on the side lines and critize the volunteer efforts of others.

[Wildbill]

I am proud to be Canadian ! Where we are free to have our own opinion ! And express it freely even if some view it as criticism .

[Nutter]

I am proud to be Canadian ! Where we are free to have our own opinion ! And express it freely even if some view it as criticism .

It's great, but doesn't it get under your skin Bill when someone critizes your club for not having trails groomed after the first 2" early Dec snow fall, then you explain why and they just say they know better and your doing it wrong ?

[Wildbill]

I am proud to be Canadian ! Where we are free to have our own opinion ! And express it freely even if some view it as criticism .

It's great, but doesn't it get under your skin Bill when someone critizes your club for not having trails groomed after the first 2" early Dec snow fall, then you explain why and they just say they know better and your doing it wrong ?

My Grandfather and my Father fought for thier free speech . The least that I can do is respect it.

[Nutter]

I am proud to be Canadian ! Where we are free to have our own opinion ! And express it freely even if some view it as criticism .

It's great, but doesn't it get under your skin Bill when someone critizes your club for not having trails groomed after the first 2" early Dec snow fall, then you explain why and they just say they know better and your doing it wrong ?

My Grandfather and my Father fought for thier free speech . The least that I can do is respect it.

And that free speech includes rebuttal

But just wondering if the criticizing of your clubs actions through unfound allegations bothers you, be it free speech or not ?

[Wildbill]

I am proud to be Canadian ! Where we are free to have our own opinion ! And express it freely even if some view it as criticism .

It's great, but doesn't it get under your skin Bill when someone critizes your club for not having trails groomed after the first 2" early Dec snow fall, then you explain why and they just say they know better and your doing it wrong ?

My Grandfather and my Father fought for thier free speech . The least that I can do is respect it.

And that free speech includes rebuttal

But just wondering if the criticizing of your clubs actions through unfound allegations bothers you, be it free speech or not ?

There is no glory in public service opinions are free .If you lnow that what you are doing is right that should be enough .

Nothing is perfect the OFSC is not perfect either. Honestly I think that somtimes the critters just wind you up ,

[Nutter]

There is no glory in public service opinions are free .If you lnow that what you are doing is right that should be enough .

Nothing is perfect the OFSC is not perfect either. Honestly I think that somtimes the critters just wind you up ,

Very true opening words Bill ..

But ya they do wind me up, we try our best to get new volunteers involved and keep our system running the best we can, at the lowest possible price for users, all while having fun and a sense of pride of accomplishment. But unfound alligations posted ona public forum do nothing but make it harder for us to do that, especially when they come from the very people who enjoy the fruits of our volunteerism, and from some are volunteers themselves. You know as well as I do it's very hard to get people involved, or even involved people to accept greater responsabilities to help run this org at different levels, and that this kind of stuff is the absolute last thing we need, if we would like to see our clubs and trails prosper for all to enjoy.

[Domino]

Honestly I think that somtimes the critters just wind you up ,

Honestly, not on purpose. However, we cannot seem to have a discussion about the OFSC without it being taken as a personal insult to all volunteers. As I have said before, I am a volunteer. Although many people appreciate the work I do on Ontario Conditions, I am not including this work in my statement that I am a volunteer.

Every year, except my first, I have helped with trail work. This season I spent a day clearing the new "D" trail that was re-opened after the bridge was built. I also helped stake Kahshe lake. By helped I mean I drilled more than half the holes, used my fuel and traveled on my dime. I also assist with club websites and forums on occasion. I am glad to lend a hand.

I am also a permit holder. Two permits, one for the sled I ride and a second for the sled I lend to friends in a hope of getting them interested in sledding and becoming permit buyers themselves.

I have attended my club's AGM. I have discussed "issues" with club executive. I enjoy seeing these topics here as without this venue for discussion, I would not know people like Nutter and Yukon, therefore I would never have the opportunity to hear thier thoughts. I wish the tone of these threads was calmer and taken as an opportunity to educate without any personal slights.

I started this reply believing it would be one line...... things change.

At the end of the day, we all have something in common, a passion for snowmobiling.

[Domino]

Well we would not want any misunderstandings, so this post has resulted in the OFSC link being removed from our website.

When the OFSC pays, we will re-instate it.

Knock yourself out Dom, it's your site ... so I take the OFSC was not a paying "sponsor", glad we got that sorted out, I certainly would think a sledding site called Ontario Conditions would be happy to put an OFSC link for free and not use up the resources of permit money, that so many here feel are being blatantly wasted at the hands of dedicated volunteer guidance .....

For the record....

I added the OFSC logo with a link as a courtesy. I honestly forgot that in the rotation it would appear under the title "OC Sponsors". Your post created the awareness of my signing error, and was immediately corrected. The OFSC logo should not appear on this site under any perception that they in anyway contribute to it financially. I have replaced the OFSC logo with a Volunteer message linked to the OFSC. I have also changed the section title to OC Sponsors & Info.

The OFSC maybe wise to support Ontario Conditions, maybe not financially, but adopt it as a way of communicating to Ontario Snomobilers. I would like to see more OFSC Executive representation here to educate our members. I think a dedicated category for the OFSC would be a good communication tool.

[Wildbill]

There is no glory in public service opinions are free .If you lnow that what you are doing is right that should be enough .

Nothing is perfect the OFSC is not perfect either. Honestly I think that somtimes the critters just wind you up ,

Very true opening words Bill ..

But ya they do wind me up, we try our best to get new volunteers involved and keep our system running the best we can, at the lowest possible price for users, all while having fun and a sense of pride of accomplishment. But unfound alligations posted ona public forum do nothing but make it harder for us to do that, especially when they come from the very people who enjoy the fruits of our volunteerism, and from some are volunteers themselves. You know as well as I do it's very hard to get people involved, or even involved people to accept greater responsabilities to help run this org at different levels, and that this kind of stuff is the absolute last thing we need, if we would like to see our clubs and trails prosper for all to enjoy.

Taking it too personally chases folks away , chill dude .

[Nutter]

Well we would not want any misunderstandings, so this post has resulted in the OFSC link being removed from our website.

When the OFSC pays, we will re-instate it.

Knock yourself out Dom, it's your site ... so I take the OFSC was not a paying "sponsor", glad we got that sorted out, I certainly would think a sledding site called Ontario Conditions would be happy to put an OFSC link for free and not use up the resources of permit money, that so many here feel are being blatantly wasted at the hands of dedicated volunteer guidance .....

For the record....

I added the OFSC logo with a link as a courtesy. I honestly forgot that in the rotation it would appear under the title "OC Sponsors". Your post created the awareness of my signing error, and was immediately corrected. The OFSC logo should not appear on this site under any perception that they in anyway contribute to it financially. I have replaced the OFSC logo with a Volunteer message linked to the OFSC. I have also changed the section title to OC Sponsors & Info.

The OFSC maybe wise to support Ontario Conditions, maybe not financially, but adopt it as a way of communicating to Ontario Snomobilers. I would like to see more OFSC Executive representation here to educate our members. I think a dedicated category for the OFSC would be a good communication tool.

The problem with talking about things like this on a public forum is things often get taken out of context, and to explain many things are just far to complex to explain without spending an hour or two typing.

I never said you or anyone didn't volunteer and weren't valuble volunteers, just that some fact finding should be done before accusations are made, or questions asked as questions and not accusations that require a defensive type of response.

[Nutter]

There is no glory in public service opinions are free .If you lnow that what you are doing is right that should be enough .

Nothing is perfect the OFSC is not perfect either. Honestly I think that somtimes the critters just wind you up ,

Very true opening words Bill ..

But ya they do wind me up, we try our best to get new volunteers involved and keep our system running the best we can, at the lowest possible price for users, all while having fun and a sense of pride of accomplishment. But unfound alligations posted ona public forum do nothing but make it harder for us to do that, especially when they come from the very people who enjoy the fruits of our volunteerism, and from some are volunteers themselves. You know as well as I do it's very hard to get people involved, or even involved people to accept greater responsabilities to help run this org at different levels, and that this kind of stuff is the absolute last thing we need, if we would like to see our clubs and trails prosper for all to enjoy.

Taking it too personally chases folks away , chill dude .

Well Bill I have to disagree, everyone in our club takes stuff like this personally, and we preach to all our permit buyers and club members we are the OFSC, and we are in the drivers seat, and we as permit buyers have the right to use our voice run the OFSC, not just our own club. Since adopting this attidute 7 years ago our club has gone from a membership of 6 aging exec doing all the work to an exec of 16, with an active volunteer roster of over 40, and close 60 counting sporatic volunteering and a membership of over 100. Letting people know that it isn't the way some may have you think, that the OFSC is not seperate entitiy calling the shots(sadly sometimes times for their own unethical personal gain, or just ignorance in educatiing themselves), restores the pride in the organisation as a whole, and at the same time it restors it at the club level. You can chose to beleive me or not Bill but it works .... we definatly know telling people fables of come join our clubs so they can be dictated by another entity doesn't, it drives people away faster then they sign up.

We need people to stop wearing tinfoil hats to cover up blame pushing, and start doning volunteer caps .....

[UsedtoSkidoo]

We need people to stop wearing tinfoil hats to cover up blame pushing, and start doning volunteer caps .....

WB,

Nutter will argue both sides of a coin. I found that there is no real point and it goes in circles without any constructive gains. Just the same old party line with no regard to advancement and change for the better. Kind of like throwing rice against the wall and seeing what sticks. Not my kind of way to conduct myself.

Nutter,

If anything, I do respect your dedication and I would defend that to the ends of the earth. If anyone ever asked me who was the most dedicated guy I know, you would be on my short list. I also defend your right to free speech. Good luck in all your endeavours.

I would suggest some things to you but I know you wouldnt hear what I am actually saying and decide its a bash against you or the ofsc. I have never done so but you construe it that way and it will never change. What WB said was correct.

UTS

[Nutter]

We need people to stop wearing tinfoil hats to cover up blame pushing, and start doning volunteer caps .....

WB,

Nutter will argue both sides of a coin. I found that there is no real point and it goes in circles without any constructive gains. Just the same old party line with no regard to advancement and change for the better. Kind of like throwing rice against the wall and seeing what sticks. Not my kind of way to conduct myself.

Nutter,

If anything, I do respect your dedication and I would defend that to the ends of the earth. If anyone ever asked me who was the most dedicated guy I know, you would be on my short list. I also defend your right to free speech. Good luck in all your endeavours.

I would suggest some things to you but I know you wouldnt hear what I am actually saying and decide its a bash against you or the ofsc. I have never done so but you construe it that way and it will never change. What WB said was correct.

UTS

What party line ? there is no one party trying to steer the ship it's all of us, and it's been that way for 40 years ....

No regard for advancement ? here's a just a few just from the last two years ...

- classic permit to try and bring out older sleds that were once permited

- changes in safety policies to better protect our volunteers

- permit price increase to off set the last 6 years of inflation

- more stringent uniformed signage program to make our trails safer and more user freindly

- new media partners that give us a wider advertising market

- new Go Snowmobiling mag to better inform the permit buyer how permit dollars are spent and by who

- more agressive outside of fund raising initatives to bring back in some of the dollars that sledders put out

- new provincial website

- working with grooming equip manu's to have better products built that suit our trail systems need, for a better price.

As said those are just a few, we make many changes every year, and have always been doing so ..

I don't mean this a bad way UTS, but again not knowing what truely is happening within the OFSC, local clubs, associations and districts is what makes you think there has been no change. The issue I see is some on here post ideas and because some who are involved feel they wouldn't work and explain why, the topic then simply just turns to "party line" and change is not possible, or old "boys club" and "old guard".

[UsedtoSkidoo]

We need people to stop wearing tinfoil hats to cover up blame pushing, and start doning volunteer caps .....

WB,

Nutter will argue both sides of a coin. I found that there is no real point and it goes in circles without any constructive gains. Just the same old party line with no regard to advancement and change for the better. Kind of like throwing rice against the wall and seeing what sticks. Not my kind of way to conduct myself.

Nutter,

If anything, I do respect your dedication and I would defend that to the ends of the earth. If anyone ever asked me who was the most dedicated guy I know, you would be on my short list. I also defend your right to free speech. Good luck in all your endeavours.

I would suggest some things to you but I know you wouldnt hear what I am actually saying and decide its a bash against you or the ofsc. I have never done so but you construe it that way and it will never change. What WB said was correct.

UTS

What party line ? there is no one party trying to steer the ship it's all of us, and it's been that way for 40 years ....

No regard for advancement ? here's a just a few just from the last two years ...

- classic permit to try and bring out older sleds that were once permited

- changes in safety policies to better protect our volunteers

- permit price increase to off set the last 6 years of inflation

- more stringent uniformed signage program to make our trails safer and more user freindly

- new media partners that give us a wider advertising market

- new Go Snowmobiling mag to better inform the permit buyer how permit dollars are spent and by who

- more agressive outside of fund raising initatives to bring back in some of the dollars that sledders put out

- new provincial website

- working with grooming equip manu's to have better products built that suit our trail systems need, for a better price.

As said those are just a few, we make many changes every year, and have always been doing so ..

I don't mean this a bad way UTS, but again not knowing what truely is happening within the OFSC, local clubs, associations and districts is what makes you think there has been no change. The issue I see is some on here post ideas and because some who are involved feel they wouldn't work and explain why, the topic then simply just turns to "party line" and change is not possible, or old "boys club" and "old guard".

Again Nutter,

You didnt HEAR what I said.

I think my endeavours are best spent elsewhere. Enjoy!

[revrnd]

If I want insurance, personal or life, I'll call my agent. If the OFSC were to add more offers like the Mark's discount when all they send you is a card I don't think people would mind.

All we need now are letters and or phone calls from Master Card wanting to know if we want a OFSC affinity credit card .

A lot of people detest the amount of crap that comes in the mail & goes directly into the blue box.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

If I want insurance, personal or life, I'll call my agent. If the OFSC were to add more offers like the Mark's discount when all they send you is a card I don't think people would mind.

All we need now are letters and or phone calls from Master Card wanting to know if we want a OFSC affinity credit card .

A lot of people detest the amount of crap that comes in the mail & goes directly into the blue box.

I agree, the worst are Real Estate agents.One of my best buds is a real estate agent and I called him up the other day when I recieved 13 pieces of mail. 7 were real estate, 2 Home improvements, 1 pizza ad, 3 pieces of mail for me.

Ridiculous..........

p.s. Nutter you never said if u bought the new sled? DO tell!

[Nutter]

If I want insurance, personal or life, I'll call my agent. If the OFSC were to add more offers like the Mark's discount when all they send you is a card I don't think people would mind.

All we need now are letters and or phone calls from Master Card wanting to know if we want a OFSC affinity credit card .

A lot of people detest the amount of crap that comes in the mail & goes directly into the blue box.

Kris we do our best to keep the permit price as low as possible, and cost saving deal offers to permit buyers by soliciting sponsors and advertisers that are of interest to sledders. Can't win them all over but we try our best with resources available.

Link to list of 09/10 season partners/sponsors

http://www.ofsc.on.ca/Partners/currentpartners.asp

Link top list of member benift providers for the 09/10 season

http://www.ofsc.on.ca/Permits/WhyBuy.asp

BTW ..... I gladly carry an OFSC/Mastercard

http://www4.bmo.com/creditcards/affinity/rewards/0,2273,35649_79071944,00.html

If anyone knows a co that would like some big exposure for a good price by all means direct them to the OFSC marketing Dept by having them call the main phone # 705-739-7669 and ask for Josh Grills

p.s. Nutter you never said if u bought the new sled? DO tell!

Still on the fence with a couple deals out there and whether to take a big hit on my sled, even with the brand new crate mill with warrenty till Feb 2012 in it, I'm not really seeing the trade in offers I expected.

[Cudney Racing]

To bad OFSC lost one of their biggest supporters a while ago, proably on the most part a bad business decsion on their behalf, but none the less it has created a loss of financial input to the OFSC. As for the classic permit another situation which created a loss of income as well. I am sure that there could be a list created that shows the number of classic permits that were sold to existing regular permit buyers the year before to see if this did in deed create a finacial loss. Another thing that should be addressed is the fact that there isn't a penalty for buying after Dec 1 for the classic permit buyer like there is for the regular permit buyer. The classic permit should only be available until Dec 1 and after that you should have to purchase a regular permit. Believe me I do attend the snowmobile club meetings where I am located and I do help as much as possible, but with budget cut that will be coming for next season every club could use some sort of finacial help to maintain the trails the way they do. One more thing I would suggest is to buy your permits directly from your club or from someone who sells the permits directly for the clubs, not getting into why I say this it is very important to do this to ensure that the most funds available will be given to your club. - Bill

[Nutter]

To bad OFSC lost one of their biggest supporters a while ago, proably on the most part a bad business decsion on their behalf, but none the less it has created a loss of financial input to the OFSC. As for the classic permit another situation which created a loss of income as well. I am sure that there could be a list created that shows the number of classic permits that were sold to existing regular permit buyers the year before to see if this did in deed create a finacial loss. Another thing that should be addressed is the fact that there isn't a penalty for buying after Dec 1 for the classic permit buyer like there is for the regular permit buyer. The classic permit should only be available until Dec 1 and after that you should have to purchase a regular permit. Believe me I do attend the snowmobile club meetings where I am located and I do help as much as possible, but with budget cut that will be coming for next season every club could use some sort of finacial help to maintain the trails the way they do. One more thing I would suggest is to buy your permits directly from your club or from someone who sells the permits directly for the clubs, not getting into why I say this it is very important to do this to ensure that the most funds available will be given to your club. - Bill

Surprised the crap out of some us when a few of us threw a friendly motion on the foor to add and increase of $25 after Dec 1st to the classic permit, and it was defeated by majority vote. Another reason why AGM attendance of two voting delegates from each club province wide is so important, not saying the vote would of went either way, but who knows with only 40% of eligible voting attendees attending in person, and with counting proxy votes just above the 50% quorum being met ? Also a little homework on motions tabled by some would help in the voting process.

Bill if you look at outside funding amounts, you'll notice that each year we've gone up, so any loss from any one sponsor has been picked back up and them some. Some because of the trade off of dropping some sponsors to gain others, due to conflict between the two.

I agree on the buy directly from the club, even though many wanted the online service, some clubs just don't sell enough before Dec 1st permits to off set the wait for reconciliation of the online sales, even though the clubs can use the money they owe into the matrix pot (base permit price) to off set the pre - reconciliation wait. I'm just happy we agreed to pass the furnishing cost on to the buyer, many Dist's took a crap kicking in the cost of furnishing classic permit by mail, if they took the safe guard of sending it by priority post sig required (we had two lost in the mail claims, ya right, both had sigs stating received by recipient), don't how the Dist's who didn't send via priority post faired with lost claims, hopefully not too many if any were fraudulent.

[Cudney Racing]

Unbelievale that someone would want to beat the system for $125.00, but beleive me I've seen it myself. Not the piint of whether they picked up more to offset the loss or not the point is that they are stiil out the 6 digits anyway you look at it. I am sure they could use that especially for next season for the clubs. Not only was I referrring to online buying but at the snowmobile show while talking to some I watched a number of permits being sold that weren't stated as to which club they would be to, as well the purchaser was never asked, that in itself creates hardships for clubs as well. - Bill

[Nutter]

Unbelievale that someone would want to beat the system for $125.00, but beleive me I've seen it myself. Not the piint of whether they picked up more to offset the loss or not the point is that they are stiil out the 6 digits anyway you look at it. I am sure they could use that especially for next season for the clubs. Not only was I referrring to online buying but at the snowmobile show while talking to some I watched a number of permits being sold that weren't stated as to which club they would be to, as well the purchaser was never asked, that in itself creates hardships for clubs as well. - Bill

It's a real pickle, quite a few thried to justify riding without one just because they didn't plan ahead and send in the cash and info to purchase one. Sure it sucked the MTO put that restriction on distribution, but hey we need them involved or we have no policing legislation. Be an interesting year at AGM this year, no doubt lots will do a lot of homework on how to make the classic permit work, or if it's even feasable at all. We really don't know if it was working PQ, NB or NS or if it was being subsidized by their higer reg costs which a percentage gets returned to their federations, or by full season permits .. certainly was a gamble we didn't need with a bad economy and low snow winter, but hey who knew the perfect storm was going to brew ? Personally I say we scrap it, and take the hit of pissing off only those who bought one last year, rather then let it fester and grow, if it turns out to be a revenue loss for us.

Well being out 6 figures is certainly cause for concern, but only if we didn't regain it or surpass it. Also we really never turn away any sponsor, unless there's a cost or competition issue or some wrong doing on their behalf, they are always free to continue their support.

Ya it's tough to get vendors to make sure buyers put in the info, but we do have a safe guard where the permit gets refured back to the previous purchase club, and if there is no previous purchas to fall back on it then just becomomes a geographic point of sale for the club within that catchement that's closest to the sale point. A permit cannot be entered into the system or revenue stream, unless it has a supporting club attached to it, and all permits are audited by the MTO.