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Newbie with some stupid questions


Kier
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Hey guys! This is my second year owning a snowmobile but I am still an amateur with no knowledge of them. I bought a turn key formula 3 600 last season for a steal, and sold it to my buddy this fall (I was stupid) regretted it the first snowfall, and so I went out and grabbed a 94 grand touring SE 670. Now the bad: It was hard to start, I believe this was due to buddy not having the gas on the start, and once realizing his mistake, he only pulled the primer out twice, after a while it started but it died after letting off the throttle, he tried again and it fired and stayed running perfectly. I checked and there was only fumes left for gas, and the gas was from last year. I am thinking if I remove the plugs and swap, remove the old gas and put new premium in, clean the RAVE valves, and replace the chain case oil it should go. Now, how hard is changing the chain case oil on these machines and whats the likely hood that I screw it up taking the chain case cover off. I really dont wanna bugger my machine so I was thinking maybe best to try and suck it out the fill port (Somehow?) RAVE valves look pretty easy to remove and clean after watching a video. Is there anything else that I should be looking out for? Thanks guys! Already bought my trail permit (Didnt trail ride last year just used it for ice fishing simcoe) so I am pumped to try out the trail riding side of things. 

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That sled had a gas shut-off valve on it, and if it was closed and the sled ran enough to run the carbs dry -then mayby the carbs are ok,  but a dirty carb - especially on a multi-carb motor like yours, is very vulnerable to a lean burndown. I personally just never trust last years carbs, and we always tear them down to clean them. This is a WAY bigger deal then chaincase oil. Making sure there is enough oil in the case is good, but changing it not nearly that big'a deal.

 

 

Also - round slides are notorious for gunking up.

Way more-so than flat slides.

 

 

.

Edited by Ox
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I would pull the carbs off and clean them. Put some new plugs in it too. Have a look at the clutches as well and your belt condition. Make sure your tool kit is ready in case you do blow a belt or have to change plugs.

As for the chain case, it doesn't hurt to pull the cover of and inspect inside. Have a look at the chain tension and remove any "sludgy" oil.

Look at your sliders and carbides. Replace if needed. Adjust steering tow if needed.

Check the idler wheels.

Grease the skid and lube any other moving parts.

Check Coolant level

Inspect track and check tension 

Check lights and that the gauges function 

Check heated grips 

Inspect for any leaks

 

 

 

 

 

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Turns out the bottom end on my sled is toast, either a bearing, crank, etc, had a knocking sound that my buddy picked up, so I took it to another guy I know whos a skidoo mechanic, and he confirmed something in the bottom end was screwed. So I guess I am going to learn how to take an engine out, I bought another bottom end that I plan to swap my top end (which is still good) onto. Although I did get all the maintenance done this weekend before finding that out lol, so like, at least thats out of the way LOL 

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40 minutes ago, Kier said:

Turns out the bottom end on my sled is toast, either a bearing, crank, etc, had a knocking sound that my buddy picked up, so I took it to another guy I know whos a skidoo mechanic, and he confirmed something in the bottom end was screwed. So I guess I am going to learn how to take an engine out, I bought another bottom end that I plan to swap my top end (which is still good) onto. Although I did get all the maintenance done this weekend before finding that out lol, so like, at least thats out of the way LOL 

better now than in the middle of a trail in the middle of nowhere

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8 minutes ago, 02Sled said:

better now than in the middle of a trail in the middle of nowhere

Yep, I hope to have it ready to go by end of this weekend. Would hate to be on the trail and it goes, ive never trail ridden before, so I want to enjoy it not worry about breaking down the whole time. 

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1 hour ago, Kier said:

Turns out the bottom end on my sled is toast, either a bearing, crank, etc, had a knocking sound that my buddy picked up, so I took it to another guy I know whos a skidoo mechanic, and he confirmed something in the bottom end was screwed. So I guess I am going to learn how to take an engine out, I bought another bottom end that I plan to swap my top end (which is still good) onto. Although I did get all the maintenance done this weekend before finding that out lol, so like, at least thats out of the way LOL 

Was bottom end checked by anyone. I recommend checking crank with a dial indicator on pto shaft and make sure it is true before going into snowmobile. If it doesn’t check out, I would quit there. When you have it all apart, I would be tempted to go with a new top end and rings and pistons. More reliable in long run. Not that much more to do it right. Mechanic needs to measure everything and get it all into tolerance for it to be reliable. Good luck. 

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19 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

Was bottom end checked by anyone. I recommend checking crank with a dial indicator on pto shaft and make sure it is true before going into snowmobile. If it doesn’t check out, I would quit there. When you have it all apart, I would be tempted to go with a new top end and rings and pistons. More reliable in long run. Not that much more to do it right. Mechanic needs to measure everything and get it all into tolerance for it to be reliable. Good luck. 

Honestly I spoke with my buddy and we both agreed, the cost of having a mechanic, him, do it, out weights how much the sleds worth. The way it sits its worth nothing, so I am going to take it apart and do it myself, for at the very least, the learning experience and to know how it works. If it works out great, if it doesnt, well, the extra 200$ i spent on a bottom end was worth the knowledge I should get out of it. The cylinders are showing 150 PSI each, which is pretty much new, my buddy thinks someone did a top end then didnt check bottom, and then sold it when they realized bottom end was screwed. I dont want to sink more cash into this sled as its just not worth it, its a 94 grand touring, so cost to redo anything more puts it over what its worth. 

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Well, it sounds like you've turned a wrench before.

 

Did you take the old bottom apart to see if/what the issue was?

"A rod knockin' " isn't normal on a 2stroke.

 

Many times in automotive - those "rods" are actually wrist pins, and will clatter for years.

 

Put front and rear main seals in it!

(checking run-out is a good idea as well.)

 

 

.

Edited by Ox
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23 minutes ago, Ox said:

Well, it sounds like you've turned a wrench before.

 

Did you take the old bottom apart to see if/what the issue was?

"A rod knockin' " isn't normal on a 2stroke.

 

Many times in automotive - those "rods" are actually wrist pins, and will clatter for years.

 

Put front and rear main seals in it!

(checking run-out is a good idea as well.)

 

 

.

Ive worked on some stuff but never in depth and never alone. This will be my first kick at the can per say. I havent got the engine out, but there was definitely a sound coming from bottom end, confirmed by a certified BPR technician, the sleds not worth enough to employ him at 75$ an hour to look at it, so I bought a bottom end that looked good, no play no sounds etc, to replace it with. My buddy was a car mechanic, so when ever I make it over his way, I plan to bring the old bottom end and the top end from the engine I bought (no pistons etc and top end had low compression, so not a complete motor by any means) and take it apart/find out what was wrong. Then we may try and rebuilt the engine with parts we can find/ what I have. We shall see. My main focus is getting this sled working, as its what Ive got and no money for another, so I make it work or I dont ride lol. 

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I dont plan to crack the "new" bottom end as I have no idea whats in there/how to do it, but I will be replacing the out crank seal, as its easy to get to. 

Edited by Kier
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Kier, I admire your courage. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Blake G said:

Kier, I admire your courage. 

 

 

Its more so I really want to ride and if I dont learn how to fix this there wont be any riding lol, cause a 94 with a blown bottom is worth about the price of scrap it seems. Dont worry, I tried selling it (Making sure people knew the bottom end was making a noise, not into screwing people like I got screwed) and was offered 300$ lol. So i said hell, worst case I mess it up and its worth pretty much the same lol. 

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Once you get it going your wallet will be much happier not feeding that triple anyways! I had one as my first sled, it was a pig. Where are you riding from?

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48 minutes ago, Poo Man said:

Once you get it going your wallet will be much happier not feeding that triple anyways! I had one as my first sled, it was a pig. Where are you riding from?

I live in Peterborough, so around that area. Never ridden the trails before so this is really my first year getting into snowmobiling. 

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3 hours ago, Poo Man said:

Once you get it going your wallet will be much happier not feeding that triple anyways! I had one as my first sled, it was a pig. Where are you riding from?

What trippple - where?

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3 hours ago, Poo Man said:

Once you get it going your wallet will be much happier not feeding that triple anyways! I had one as my first sled, it was a pig. Where are you riding from?

I dunno about that. Those 670’s were more thirsty with those big carbs then triple every were. Triple better on oil too. I ran lots of miles next to a ss670 from 1995 I believe. 

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16 minutes ago, Ox said:

What trippple - where?

I beleive the formula 3 was a triple

 

7 minutes ago, Strong Farmer said:

I dunno about that. Those 670’s were more thirsty with those big carbs then triple every were. Triple better on oil too. I ran lots of miles next to a ss670 from 1995 I believe. 

Interesting, my dad had a 583 and it was way better

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Was the FIII mentioned prior?

I missed it...

 

When I was lookin' to fetch a new sled back in '01, I threatened to buy a used Mach1 - which I believe had the single pipe - and long track it, but I ended up splurging to the new Zx Summit.

 

No RER on trippples either....

 

 

Hmmm, I guess RER is not possible on the 580/670 with rotary valves, but the trippples with reeds - should actually have been possible, but I don't think that they ever bothered?

 

 

.

Edited by Ox
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6 minutes ago, Ox said:

Was the FIII mentioned prior?

I missed it...

 

When I was lookin' to fetch a new sled back in '01, I threatened to buy a used Mach1 - which I believe had the single pipe - and long track it, but I ended up splurging to the new Zx Summit.

 

No RER on trippples either....

 

 

Hmmm, I guess RER is not possible on the 580/670 with rotary valves, but the trippples with reeds - should actually have been possible, but I don't think that they ever bothered?

 

 

.

I had a FIII 600 last year, but only used it for ice fishing, put less then 200 km on it. This year will be my first year actually riding. (Hopefully lol)

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18 minutes ago, Ox said:

RER is not possible on the 580/670 with rotary valves, but the trippples with reeds - should actually have been possible, but I don't think that they ever bothered?

I think everything was mechanical reverese until early 2000's if I'm remembering correctly.

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Yeah, but the CK3 chassis went through 2003, and RER came out in 200.5 (?) on the Ser III Twin motors.

So there was a 2-3 year overlap, but I don't think the trippples ever got it, but I could be wrong.

 

There WAS sumpthing special aboot the last cpl year 800 blocks, but now I don't recall what that was.

Maybe it was RER, but I don't remember any more....

I was thinking that it might be more like 780 / 800+ CC's or ???

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My buddy just got back to me, he took my old FIII 600 out for the second ride of the season for him and blew the engine up. Hes not sure what is messed up but looks like I would have run into issues either way. Hes hoping just a top end. Engine died and seized, he got it unseized by playing with the clutch by hand, and then restarted, after 100 yards started making a sound. Either way id be having engine issue it seems. Gotta learn one way or another

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25 minutes ago, Kier said:

My buddy just got back to me, he took my old FIII 600 out for the second ride of the season for him and blew the engine up. Hes not sure what is messed up but looks like I would have run into issues either way. Hes hoping just a top end. Engine died and seized, he got it unseized by playing with the clutch by hand, and then restarted, after 100 yards started making a sound. Either way id be having engine issue it seems. Gotta learn one way or another

Did you  have a summerizing procedure that you completed at the end of last season?

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5 minutes ago, PISTON LAKE CRUISER said:

Did you  have a summerizing procedure that you completed at the end of last season?

No, but I started the sled monthly and let it run to keep its from seizing, which I read up on online and they said if it was started monthly that was good for it? I also used fuel stabilizer, and he put all new gas in. Hopefully wasnt something I did, but hed already put some KM on it before it happened... 

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