GrizzlyGriff Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Northernlife.ca posted a story about 4 sledders caught without proper permits. Here is an interesting comment someone posted under the article.... "What a bunch of crap. I'd rather let the four freeloaders go than have a bunch of cops around. I cut brush, trees, fix trails and groom and I don't appreciate most of our money going to the government to buy sleds to harass me on the trail. Get lost cops. Maybe if all us volunteers said to hell with it and left the trails unmanaged they wouldn't have a place to patrol. Put that in your pipe and smoke it intredip snowmobiler I bet you don't sling a powersaw around either. Stay out of New Brunswick." I guess the Intrepid Snowmobiler is not that popular in NB either..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 If the scarecrow only had a brain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 "What a bunch of crap. I'd rather let the four freeloaders go than have a bunch of cops around. I cut brush, trees, fix trails and groom and I don't appreciate most of our money going to the government to buy sleds to harass me on the trail. Get lost cops. Maybe if all us volunteers said to hell with it and left the trails unmanaged they wouldn't have a place to patrol. Put that in your pipe and smoke it intredip snowmobiler I bet you don't sling a powersaw around either. Stay out of New Brunswick." "And your point is?" Kinda makes you scratch your head doesn't it. A problem w/ authority figures? Jealous that the sleds the cops ride are newer than his? I assume he thinks our permit money goes to buying sleds for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyGriff Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 yeah..not sure if he means permit money or taxes. Certainly has a chip on his shoulder. I certainly cannot agree with his perspective, but then again, he is entitled to his opinion. I must admit that after being stopped five times one Saturday between Halliburton and Fenelon Falls, I was not appreciative of trail patrols that particular day. But I do appreciate how they contribute to safer riding by keeping drinking and to some degree speeding in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I must admit that after being stopped five times one Saturday between Halliburton and Fenelon Falls, Yeah, that would get old pretty quick. I was stopped twice in about 15 minutes on the railbed heading to the Bancroft oval races a couple of years ago. Lots of complaints about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Sledder Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Open mouth, insert foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 just a meat head nothing to lose hide behind a computor and rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 He says... stay out of New Brunswick.... perhaps that is where he is from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Green Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Anyone who is intimidated by the law has something else to hide. He didn't mention what time of year he is cutting or grooming brush I wonder what grows in his section of bush ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozskagg Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Keyboard Cowboy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyGriff Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Keyboard Cowboy! Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I've really never had a problem with the popo anytime when i get pulled over, only ever been asked for ownership and proof of insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 only once was I ever asked for ownership and insurance and they had me over the limit on radar. His comment was that since I wasn't dangerously over and I had all the permits, ownership and insurance, have a nice ride. The two doing 100 weren't as fortunate as they didn't have all their documents and got a number of tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I find it awesome police in Sudbury area are proactive and catching those that want to ride free On teh hand the cops down in Parry Sound that sit on a rail bed with radar gun is a different story IMO 99% of volounteers want cops out checking for permits, we volounteer for the enjoyment of sledding and the future of sledding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That guy is not a club volunteer... Anyone who does the amount of free work for the system as he says he does, would welcome trail enforcement.... Most likely he was one of the four who got stopped and ticketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SudburyMatt Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't really like to read any comments made on media sites, just makes your day worse lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't really like to read any comments made on media sites, just makes your day worse lol. true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Police here in Suds are doing a great job. After hours of brushing yesterday my daughter and I were riding back home. We passed four sleds with no permits. I was really hopeful that the police might find them somewhere on the trails and fine them all. I would like to see police force non permitted sleds to be towed off the trail and impounded for 72 hours. I am sure we could find a few enterprising people willing to set up to provide this service to police. Use a bearcat that seats three with a rigid tow bar and sleigh to take the sleds off to a compound. Charge Five hundred to do it.and 100 per day storage. There is no excuse not to have a permit. lets also get Trail patrol the same power to get these sleds towed and impounded. We need to get these thieves off our trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 There's got to be some kind of major deterrent to riding permitless. Look @ how the province has had to raise the penalties (which should've been higher in the 1st place IMO) for distracted driving. In both instances people just look @ the fine as a cost of doing business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 There's got to be some kind of major deterrent to riding permitless. Look @ how the province has had to raise the penalties (which should've been higher in the 1st place IMO) for distracted driving. In both instances people just look @ the fine as a cost of doing business. People are still going to break the rules. People still drink and drive, and kill each other, fully aware of the penalties for doing it. If they jack up the fines, it's just going to cause people to try and run when they do see a cop, and if they get hurt running, it will drive up the cost of insurance for the trails. Making it more for you and I to buy permits. The other issue is simplely lack of enforcement. How many LEOs do we have to enforce 30,000+kms of trails? Even linking the whole permit to val-tag is questionable, simple because how many freeloaders carry valid plate's as well? I do agree the fines need to be much higher then they are, but if you don't have the enforcement, it really doesn't matter. Wonder how many freeloading charges a year are laid? I bet is a very low number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The primary culprit here is the Province of Ontario in not amending the MSVA to provide for a higher minimum penalty to make it like Quebec where the penalty is too high to risk getting caught. Secondly, upgrade Trail Patrol to be like ByLaw Enforcement Officers whereby they are trained and authorized to gather evidence on No Permits and Trespassing on Private a Property and police can lay charges. This means the owner of the sled is responsible for those infractions just like a parking ticket or ETR 407 penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyGriff Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 A guy and his son were coming down a trail dragging a load of firewood behind 2 working sleds. Probably going from a bush lot a couple of km away to a cottage. No permits. I indicated some displeasure and he stopped and seemed to want to get aggressive. I let it drop. Brings to mind the question of people like this who may never use the tails recreationally but need to access a place near a cottage or cabin for one purpose or another infrequently. Is there a line to be drawn I wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 A guy and his son were coming down a trail dragging a load of firewood behind 2 working sleds. Probably going from a bush lot a couple of km away to a cottage. No permits. I indicated some displeasure and he stopped and seemed to want to get aggressive. I let it drop. Brings to mind the question of people like this who may never use the tails recreationally but need to access a place near a cottage or cabin for one purpose or another infrequently. Is there a line to be drawn I wonder. The only exemption is for traveling to fishing or hunting on crown or public land from the nearest road access. If you cross private property... not valid. If there is a road between them and the destination... not valid and they must have their fishing/hunting licence. In most of Muskoka it's pretty tough to make the claim since there is so much private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The only exemption is for traveling to fishing or hunting on crown or public land from the nearest road access. If you cross private property... not valid. If there is a road between them and the destination... not valid and they must have their fishing/hunting licence. In most of Muskoka it's pretty tough to make the claim since there is so much private property. Wrong, you are exempt if you are gaining access to your property across crown land, or if you are a status indian travelling on your traditional lands, or you are the property owner.....Lots of reasons you do not need a permit besides fishing or hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoso Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Here is the long list of exemptions. Exemptions 4. Subsections 2.1 (1) and (4) of the Act do not apply to a person belonging to a class of persons listed in Column 1 of the Table only in the circumstances set out opposite the class in Column 2 of the Table and only if the person carries with him or her while driving the motorized snow vehicle on the prescribed trail the documents listed opposite the class in Column 3 of the Table. O. Reg. 185/01, s. 4. TABLE Item Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 1. Police officers, emergency workers including ambulance and medical workers, search and rescue workers, firefighters as defined in subsection 1 (1) of the Fire Protection and Prevention Act, 1997, employees of the Ministry of Natural Resources or the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines, employees of the federal Department of National Defence. While engaged in duties required by their employer. Identification issued by their employer. 2. Aboriginal peoples of Canada. While on treaty or traditional lands. None. 3. (a) Licensed bait harvesters and their designates. (a) While engaged in bait harvesting within the bait harvest area or while travelling directly to or from the bait harvest area to engage in bait harvesting, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the bait harvest area or is the only safe access route to the bait harvest area. (a) An original or a legible copy of a valid bait harvester licence. ( Licensed bait harvesters’ helpers. ( While accompanying a licensed bait harvester or designate in the circumstances described in clause (a). ( None. 4. Licensed commercial fish harvesters and their designates. While engaged in commercial fishing activities within the commercial fishing area or while travelling directly to or from the commercial fishing area to engage in commercial fishing, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the commercial fishing area or is the only safe access route to the commercial fishing area. An original or a legible copy of a valid commercial fishing licence. 5. Tenants of Crown land and such tenants’ immediate family members. While travelling directly to or from the Crown land, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the Crown land or is the only safe access route to the Crown land. A legible copy of a land use permit, licence of occupation or lease, issued under thePublic Lands Act or a regulation under that Act. 6. Forest workers, including the employees or agents of any forest or timber company. While engaged in forestry activities pursuant to a licence under theCrown Forest Sustainability Act, 1994 or a private land forest harvesting contract within the location of the forestry operation or while travelling directly to or from the location of the forestry operation, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the location of the forestry operation or is the only safe access route to the location of the forestry operation. A valid forest resource licence or a letter prepared within the previous 240 days by the forest or timber company on stationery bearing the company’s letterhead, setting out, (i) the company name, address, phone number and the date on which the letter was prepared, (ii) the name, address and phone number for each contractor or agent working on the operation, (iii) the name of each employee working on operation for both the company and any contractor or agent, (iv) a description of the location of the operation, including the name of any municipality within which the operation is located, and (v) the signature, name, title, address and phone number of the person who prepared the letter. 7. Landowners, their tenants and the immediate family members of landowners and of their tenants. While travelling directly to or from the property owned by the landowner, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the property or is the only safe access route to the property. Proof of ownership of or title to the property that is a government form, deed, registry or other document of land transfer, or in the case of tenancy, a copy of the lease for the property if one exists or a letter from the landowner prepared within the previous 240 days identifying the property by its municipal description and address and identifying the owner and the tenant by name, address and phone number. 8. The immediate family members of the owners of land on which there is a prescribed trail and the guests of such landowners and of their immediate family members. While on the trail on the owned property. None. 9. (a) Licensed trappers. While engaged in trapping activities within the trapping area, or while travelling directly to or from the trapping area, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the trapping area or is the only safe access route to the trapping area. (a) An original valid trapper’s licence and either a registered trapline map issued by the Ministry of Natural Resources or a description of the resident trapline area, including its municipal location, lot number and size. ( Licensed trappers’ helpers. ( An original valid trapper’s licence or a legible copy of it and either a registered trapline map issued by the Ministry of Natural Resources or a description of the resident trapline area, including its municipal location, lot number and size. 10. Workers for utility companies including telephone, cable, hydro-electric, gas or other pipeline companies or service providers, and their contractors. While engaged in activities pursuant to employment at the location of the installation, or when travelling directly to or from the location of the installation, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the location of the installation or is the only safe access route to the location of the installation. A copy of the contract or work order, if any, or a letter prepared within the previous 240 days from the utility company, on stationery bearing the company’s letterhead, setting out, (i) the company name, address and phone number and the date on which the letter was prepared, (ii) the name, address and phone number of each contractor working on the project, (iii) the name and employee identification number, if any, for each employee working on the project for both the company and the contractor, (iv) the description of the location of the project, including the name of any municipality within which the project is located, and (v) the signature, name, title, address and phone number of the person who prepared the letter. 11. (a) Licensed prospectors and their helpers 18 years old or older. While staking or working claims within a claim area, or while travelling directly to or from a claim area, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the claim area or is the only safe access route to the claim area. While working for a mining or exploration company, a contractor or field service supplier, within a claim area, or while travelling directly to or from a claim area, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the claim area or is the only safe access route to the claim area. (a) An original valid prospectors licence or a legible copy of it and either, (i) mining claim tags, or (ii) a claim map or a legible copy of a claim map, showing the property or part of the property on which the trail is situate and a claim abstract or a legible copy of a claim abstract for the claim area. ( Licensed prospectors’ helpers, under the age of 18, accompanying a licensed prospector. ( None. 12. Employees of a mining or exploration company, and the employees of any contractor, driller, claim staker, land surveyor or geotechnical surveyor that is engaged by such a company, or any field service supplier of any of these persons. Within the mining or exploration project area or while travelling directly to or from the project area, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the project area or is the only safe access route to the project area. A valid trail permit exemption form issued by the Ministry of Northern Development and Mines or a letter prepared within the previous 240 days on stationery bearing the mining or exploration company’s letterhead, setting out, (i) the company name, address and phone number and the date on which the letter was prepared, (ii) the contractor name, address and phone number for each contractor working on the project, (iii) the name and employee identification number, if any, for each employee working on project for both the company and the contractor, (iv) the description of the location of the project, including the name of any municipality within which the project is located, and (v) the signature, name, title, address and phone number of the person who prepared the letter. 13. (a) Licensed anglers. While engaged in angling activities during open season, as defined in the Ontario Fishery Regulations made under the Fisheries Act(Canada), pursuant to a valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997, and while travelling on Crown or other public land directly to or from the area open for angling, within the meaning of theFisheries Act (Canada), if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the area open for angling or is the only safe access route to the area open for angling. (a) A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card and a valid sport fishing validation tag, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997. ( Anglers 65 years old or older or under 18 years old. ( A valid fishing or fishing/hunting outdoors card issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997 or, (i) a driver’s licence, (ii) a motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence, or (iii) a birth certificate. 14. Licensed hunters. While engaged in hunting activities and carrying hunting equipment on land other than the trail, during open season, as defined in the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act,1997, pursuant to a valid outdoors card and a valid licence to hunt, both issued under that Act, and while travelling on Crown or other public land directly to or from the hunting area and carrying hunting equipment, if the trail is the only access route from the closest road to the hunting area or is the only safe access route to the hunting area. A valid outdoors card and a valid licence to hunt, both issued under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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