Viperules700 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hydro rates are going continue to grow with these bullshit "Green Energy" acts. The green energy act was just a political play for the liberals to get in as wind and solar are not really green. If we want cheap hydro rates we need to use nuclear, hydro and coal. Modern coal is very clean (believe it or not), but the average person cannot wrap their head around the idea that coal can be burned cleanly. This green energy act was introduced by a man named George Smitherman (Liberal). I dont have a particular party that I like as both the PCs and Liberals have screwed up big time in Ontario. Basically this act pays people up to 80 cents a kWh (Bruce sells theres for 5 cents a kWh) if they sell "green energy" back to the grid. You also have to factor in the costs of Hydro One putting power lines to support this energy. Basically, we dont need wind or solar. Wind produces most of its energy at night (our off peak ours) and a lot of solar farms take up a lot of farmland. Also, to make a solar panel it requires a ton of energy in comparison to its lifetime production (not very green). On the financial side, this green energy act helps make the wealthy get wealthier. The average person cannot afford to set up solar panels ($$$) even if the payoff is as low as five or six years. But a big corporation can come in and throw a ton of panels on their roofs and be making a crazy profit in a few years. This act needs to be scrapped, but it will be at least another four years. The wind power makes no sense on west and north shores of Lake Huron. They spent billions on building transferring stations to transfer the power back to big cites light kw, London, gta. On top of this, wind is mostlt produced at night, when power consumption is low. Solar makes sense if it is on a roof of an industrial building. It produces power during the peak hours of the day and you don't need distribution lines if it is consumed on sight. Even a few kilowatts on resident ail building make sense too. Peak power is very expensive to produce, so why not sublement with solar. Panels and inverters can be setup for as low as 1000 per kilowat hour installed now. It is almost at the point you can net meter and be ahead after 7 years. Some of these systems will last 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Hydro rates are going continue to grow with these bullshit "Green Energy" acts. The green energy act was just a political play for the liberals to get in as wind and solar are not really green. If we want cheap hydro rates we need to use nuclear, hydro and coal. Modern coal is very clean (believe it or not), but the average person cannot wrap their head around the idea that coal can be burned cleanly. This green energy act was introduced by a man named George Smitherman (Liberal). I dont have a particular party that I like as both the PCs and Liberals have screwed up big time in Ontario. Basically this act pays people up to 80 cents a kWh (Bruce sells theres for 5 cents a kWh) if they sell "green energy" back to the grid. You also have to factor in the costs of Hydro One putting power lines to support this energy. Basically, we dont need wind or solar. Wind produces most of its energy at night (our off peak ours) and a lot of solar farms take up a lot of farmland. Also, to make a solar panel it requires a ton of energy in comparison to its lifetime production (not very green). On the financial side, this green energy act helps make the wealthy get wealthier. The average person cannot afford to set up solar panels ($$$) even if the payoff is as low as five or six years. But a big corporation can come in and throw a ton of panels on their roofs and be making a crazy profit in a few years. This act needs to be scrapped, but it will be at least another four years. I know people who have buildings with large roof surfaces who have gone to the bank for the money to install the solar. With a contract from the province the bank will give you the full amount of the cost as a loan. The payments from the province will cover the loan payments. Then in about 6 years you are in the black and able to keep the provinces money for yourself. You may have some maintenance cost but they are small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The wind power makes no sense on west and north shores of Lake Huron. They spent billions on building transferring stations to transfer the power back to big cites light kw, London, gta. On top of this, wind is mostlt produced at night, when power consumption is low. Solar makes sense if it is on a roof of an industrial building. It produces power during the peak hours of the day and you don't need distribution lines if it is consumed on sight. Even a few kilowatts on resident ail building make sense too. Peak power is very expensive to produce, so why not sublement with solar. Panels and inverters can be setup for as low as 1000 per kilowat hour installed now. It is almost at the point you can net meter and be ahead after 7 years. Some of these systems will last 40 years. It's poor business sense to consume the solar power you generate from your rooftop. You sell it to the province at an absurdly high rate then by it back from them at a fraction of what they paid you for it. I believe the high end is somewhere around $0.80 / kwh that the province pays you and then you buy it back at the low end of about $0.05 / kwh. Those numbers will be slightly off but not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Is there anything to say that the $.80/kW is permanent even after the producers have paid off their tyrbines & panels? Proponents of the green energy compare it to new technology. The latest & greatest TVs are expensive & the prices drop as more people buy them. Does the same thing apply? Is any of this green energy technology being exported out of the province or will the industry be dormant when the province is covered w/ all these eyesores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 If memory serves me the contracts with OPG were at a high end .85 cent for Roof Mount and .55 for ground mount for 20 years. I believe they reduced the .85 cent rate but I cannot remember what it was but those who signed early are getting the full .85 cents for 20 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 And who is paying for all this BS ?????? take a copy of your next bill.....5yrs from now it will have doubled why??? not a bit of wonder we are in this shape.....one sighted and plain simple greed. Buck me do the math.......i pay 10cents a Kw.....yet 02 friends are getting 60-80cents a Kw.........time to get the sling shot out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Why do you think I declined on becoming a dealer Lep, I was all set to go and then looked at the #'s and said hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 And who is paying for all this BS ?????? take a copy of your next bill.....5yrs from now it will have doubled why??? not a bit of wonder we are in this shape.....one sighted and plain simple greed. Buck me do the math.......i pay 10cents a Kw.....yet 02 friends are getting 60-80cents a Kw.........time to get the sling shot out...... The rest of the world is abandoning solar and wind generated hydro but Ontario has been sold on it as a gift from the gods. As Wynne said not long ago....Ontarians will pay a tiny bit more now but will save in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 The rest of the world is abandoning solar and wind generated hydro but Ontario has been sold on it as a gift from the gods. As Wynne said not long ago....Ontarians will pay a tiny bit more now but will save in the long run. With the 400,000 plus manufacturing jobs that have dissapeared in this province since Macsquinty came on board and more to come once the forced Ontario pension plan takes effect we will be able to supply any extra power this sector may need with 3 AA batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 With the 400,000 plus manufacturing jobs that have dissapeared in this province since Macsquinty came on board and more to come once the forced Ontario pension plan takes effect we will be able to supply any extra power this sector may need with 3 AA batteries. W/ all the plant closures in Ontario you're probably right. I wonder how many kilowatts the now closed Truck Plant in Oshawa or the Met Site in Timmns used each day? A new Wallymart or Costco store probably use a miniscule amount in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It's poor business sense to consume the solar power you generate from your rooftop. You sell it to the province at an absurdly high rate then by it back from them at a fraction of what they paid you for it. I believe the high end is somewhere around $0.80 / kwh that the province pays you and then you buy it back at the low end of about $0.05 / kwh. Those numbers will be slightly off but not a lot. The numbers are way off! The going rate for microfit roof top solar is around 34 cents currently. 80 cents is long gone. To get a microfit or fit contract in ontario you have to spend two and half times on equipment to meet domestic content rules. I can go and buy whatever equipment I want as long as it meets CSA standards. Currently good panels and inverters are running around 1000 for kw installed. So for about 13,000 I can have a 10 kw net metered system setup. I currently pay about 17 cents a kw/hr for mid peak and peak power, once you factor in all of the fee's. I know some one who just spent 46,000 on a system getting 39.9 cents. My return is better and with power prices climbing I will be far ahead in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It seems the Fiberals who are strapped for cash are looking to sell off OLG to either Rogers or Bell.... They are not going to sell the OLG, they are just looking at Bell or Rogers help to operate the OLGC to help maximize the profit return. They say 98% of the tickets are still sold in person at a store. They want Bell or Rogers to help them move that to more of an online system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Bruce Power get paid alot more for their power than OPG does. They must have excess cash! They even pay more than OPG, we just can't tell as they are not subject to the Sunshine list! Bingo... And that is another reason your monthly bill is so high.... And yes this whole green energy act is killing us too... Give this a read.... http://www.windontario.ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 They are not going to sell the OLG, they are just looking at Bell or Rogers help to operate the OLGC to help maximize the profit return. They say 98% of the tickets are still sold in person at a store. They want Bell or Rogers to help them move that to more of an online system. When did they change their position on that? The initial reports was it was for sale at $XB now I see that they are suggesting they are contracting out the day to day operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 When did they change their position on that? The initial reports was it was for sale at $XB now I see that they are suggesting they are contracting out the day to day operations. Was in the news last week.. The story was GOV will continue to own it, but they are trying to get a large media company like Bell or Rogers to buy in to the operations side of it to help boost profits. Bell and Rogers are leaders in online services in Canada so the GOV figures they can help move lotto sales from the local retailer to online and smartphone app based. This way less money is being paid to the retailer, allowing more for prizes, and profit back to the system. Howwver that will most like mean Bell or Rogers are going to get rich and the province will loose money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Was in the news last week.. The story was GOV will continue to own it, but they are trying to get a large media company like Bell or Rogers to buy in to the operations side of it to help boost profits. Bell and Rogers are leaders in online services in Canada so the GOV figures they can help move lotto sales from the local retailer to online and smartphone app based. This way less money is being paid to the retailer, allowing more for prizes, and profit back to the system. Howwver that will most like mean Bell or Rogers are going to get rich and the province will loose money.. bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 The rest of the world is abandoning solar and wind generated hydro but Ontario has been sold on it as a gift from the gods. As Wynne said not long ago....Ontarians will pay a tiny bit more now but will save in the long run. BS!!!!!!! http://www.windontario.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToSlow Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 here ya go http://www.debtclock.ca/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 here ya go http://www.debtclock.ca/ Ontarios debt is more per capita than Canada's debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Back in '08 there were articles about the Europeans rethinking the rush to green energy. On the "Why are they advertising department", I've seen an ad on TV for some outfit involved in digital medical records extolling the benefits. I guess I know who to call when I want to digitize my medical records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Back in '08 there were articles about the Europeans rethinking the rush to green energy. On the "Why are they advertising department", I've seen an ad on TV for some outfit involved in digital medical records extolling the benefits. I guess I know who to call when I want to digitize my medical records. Spain was the first country to have feed in tarrif rates for solar. They went bankrupt ,around 10 years later. I wonder if that will happen to ontario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Watch the doc Pandora's Promise on YouTube or Netflix, you'll see the biggest backers and advertisers for Wind/Solar and anit-Nuclear is funded by Oil, Gas and Coal companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Landowner on the south end of Apsley that has a couple of solar panels had some more land cleared last week. I'll watch to see if they have some more panels installed. Clear cutting forested land to produce solar energy, that sounds environmentally sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Landowner on the south end of Apsley that has a couple of solar panels had some more land cleared last week. I'll watch to see if they have some more panels installed. Clear cutting forested land to produce solar energy, that sounds environmentally sound. enviro mental dumb idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 They clear cut a 200 acres just south of Mountain View airport in the county for a big solar farm. 50Mw of power... on 200 aceres. Not a very good return on good land. It was met by so much opposition they left 20 feet of trees along Hwy 62 so you can't see it as you drive pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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