volunteer2 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Well, we all have lots of snow, a real "surprise" and a new funding model to work with. How are your districts dealing with the FFC grooming dollar budgets compared to the actual dollars being spent. Will we have enough $ for the season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfisher Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Good question my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Should be ok, since everyone tells me permits are way up. Cheers go ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Should be ok, since everyone tells me permits are way up. Cheers go ride! How much are they up? Have you heard a concrete number and from who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Not sure how it will work out. Here in District 1 all the money, if I am right 2 payments, is still in the bank account of District 1. Not one club has seen one penny. Don't like that. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Was thinking that we all as clubs are together in FCC but it seems from not. I gave asked our governor two times about the permit sales and grooming hours divided up by district but haven't seen nothing. Brenda promised us at the Agm that she would keep us up to date but it doesn't happen. It's the same one way street as it was ever. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 We haven't received permit numbers either and have no idea where we sit. Grooming. D9 has clubs/associations that are already over their budgeted hour for this year but the district is committed to maintain grooming throughout the season. Sadly, we, the dedicated volunteers have created our own monster by our commitment to our trail conditions. Now, the rider expects a level of grooming which we are struggling to maintain with the heavy snowload, high winds and breakdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 We haven't received permit numbers either and have no idea where we sit. Grooming. D9 has clubs/associations that are already over their budgeted hour for this year but the district is committed to maintain grooming throughout the season. Sadly, we, the dedicated volunteers have created our own monster by our commitment to our trail conditions. Now, the rider expects a level of grooming which we are struggling to maintain with the heavy snowload, high winds and breakdowns. We are also over our grooming hours. So I would like to know how other districts are doing with grooming hours to know if there is a change that we get more money. I asked our governor for that report. It's now 3 weeks later and still no report. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 D9 set up an operating model last fall when we realized FFC was possible. We analyzed all the finances and tried to set up our own reserve for things such as "groomer replacement", infrastructure funding' etc. We, as you Greg have no idea what extra but if we need to dip into our projectedreserves that we believe we should receive based on last years data we will be Ok. Can't comment on the extra permits sales are dollars that we will receive as we just don't know. All I know is that we will have to deplete our projected reserved to groom. We have 29 clubs, 27 groomers and 3117 km of trails..It's been a challenge. Our Governor is in the same boat as yours, he doesn't have the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Was thinking that we all as clubs are together in FCC but it seems from not. I gave asked our governor two times about the permit sales and grooming hours divided up by district but haven't seen nothing. Brenda promised us at the that she would keep us up to date but it doesn't happen. It's the same one way street as it was ever. Thanks Greg I don't know the numbers either, since it is a secret. Hopefully things will be up by about 25 percent. My neighbor just bought a permit last week at full price. Snowmobile hadn't moves in 4 years. Dealers are sold out of new stock and people are fighting over the good used ones. So sales look promising. Downside is all districts and clubs have snow, so everyone is going over budget it seems. Now that the winter is back, ofsc will have an opportunity to raise permit prices next fall and it shouldn't affect sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 This free weekend coming up is going to hurt us again. Another 14,000 sleds could hit the trail with no permit once again. Maybe we need a special family day weekend permit instead, to recoup some extra funds. If conditions are great, people would surely pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Absolutely the wrong weekend for several reasons: Trails are already overloaded with PAYING customers, why add more when the groomers can't keep up Why bring newbies out when trails are already too busy, creates a hazard. When you are trying to impress a potential new customer with your product, you don't do it when they see it in a less than desirable condition, high traffic and rougher than normal trails. They don't need 3 days, a regular weekend is sufficient Do it in January when they might buy a Trail Permit for the rest of the year, not as likely in mid-February Being weekend after a Quebec Free Weekend encourages some to get two free weekends and maybe a 3 day Another alternative is the same weekend as Quebec I really don't think we need to be giving our trails away especially as the Ontario Government is becoming less financially helpful, it might be a good bargaining chip, give us more and you can keep your Family Day Weekend for goodwill. Let's debate this at OFSC AGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Absolutely the wrong weekend for several reasons: Trails are already overloaded with PAYING customers, why add more when the groomers can't keep up Why bring newbies out when trails are already too busy, creates a hazard They don't need 3 days, a regular weekend is sufficient Do it in January when they might buy a Trail Permit for the rest of the year, not as likely in mid-February Being weekend after a Quebec Free Weekend encourages some to get two free weekends and maybe a 3 day Another alternative is the same weekend as Quebec I really don't think we need to be giving our trails away especially as the Ontario Government is becoming less financially helpful, it might be a good bargaining chip, give us more and you can keep your Family Day Weekend for goodwill. Let's debate this at OFSC AGM I will back you on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Another reason is that we've had 2 consecutive years of Free Family Day Weekends so they have had lots of time to make up their mind if snowmobiling is something they want to do and can afford. We are not going to attract that many 'new' people now so let's give this promotion a break for a year or so, especially now after a super season. Let's not give people a reason to not buy and just wait for the Ontario Free Weekend and possibly some taking advantage of the Quebec Free Weekend as well. Also we need to see definite proof that this promotion works. Turn this down at AGM and advertise the fact and watch our pre November sales jump if in fact we have that option again. Cancelling the Free Weekend may in fact spur sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I don't know the numbers either, since it is a secret. Hopefully things will be up by about 25 percent. My neighbor just bought a permit last week at full price. Snowmobile hadn't moves in 4 years. Dealers are sold out of new stock and people are fighting over the good used ones. So sales look promising. Downside is all districts and clubs have snow, so everyone is going over budget it seems. Now that the winter is back, ofsc will have an opportunity to raise permit prices next fall and it shouldn't affect sales. It's not really a secret, info has been given out at club meetings. Still seeing sleds with no permits. One idiot actually took a run at one of our club patrollers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It's not really a secret, info has been given out at club meetings. Still seeing sleds with no permits. One idiot actually took a run at one of our club patrollers. I know it Is in un- believable! Which club are you part of shook up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Another reason is that we've had 2 consecutive years of Free Family Day Weekends so they have had lots of time to make up their mind if snowmobiling is something they want to do and can afford. We are not going to attract that many 'new' people now so let's give this promotion a break for a year or so, especially now after a super season. Let's not give people a reason to not buy and just wait for the Ontario Free Weekend and possibly some taking advantage of the Quebec Free Weekend as well. Also we need to see definite proof that this promotion works. Turn this down at AGM and advertise the fact and watch our pre November sales jump if in fact we have that option again. Cancelling the Free Weekend may in fact spur sales. X2! Some people plan one weekend in Quebec and one in Ontario. Thar is two weekends you don't need permits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakesnowcrest Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 X2! Some people plan one weekend in Quebec and one in Ontario. Thar is two weekends you don't need permits. Then some people will get the 3 day pass and ride for 3 weekends for $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Then some people will get the 3 day pass and ride for 3 weekends for $100 No $75 is the cost of a 3-day permit Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Greg, I can't imagine that there will be many Clubs cutting back on grooming or repairs due to lack of information on their revenues due to FFC, although that is easy to say if a club has money in the bank. We are fortunate as the District is paying 100 percent of all fuel used by member clubs so that is a huge help, we previously paid 25%. Thank goodness the permit revenues look to be strong and may in fact continue to grow with the great conditions most are experiencing. I do agree that Clubs are somewhat in the dark about how much money is coming to them as the District now has much more say in revenue sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 D9 set up an operating model last fall when we realized FFC was possible. We analyzed all the finances and tried to set up our own reserve for things such as "groomer replacement", infrastructure funding' etc. We, as you Greg have no idea what extra but if we need to dip into our projectedreserves that we believe we should receive based on last years data we will be Ok. Can't comment on the extra permits sales are dollars that we will receive as we just don't know. All I know is that we will have to deplete our projected reserved to groom. We have 29 clubs, 27 groomers and 3117 km of trails..It's been a challenge. Our Governor is in the same boat as yours, he doesn't have the numbers I am curious, are your individule clubs paying the fuel for grooming, or does the district? I haven't made it to any of our district meetings this year, so I don't know what we have received for $ as a district, but so far district is paying our fuel costs and groomer operator wages. I have been skeptical about this approch as there are so many unknowns, like how many dollars are we really going to get per km of grooming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 D9 is now the groomer driver employer and pays driver wages and fuel. We came up with a model using last years data to establish a basic "cost per hour" operating expense and set a specific dollar value to wages. We used last years numbers as a base but the board re-evaluated these numbers last night to assure the clubs and or associations have the appropriate funding available to get through this season. We also evaluated the cost of normal maintenance for the groomers and paid out on hours groomed. As I said this was all based on last winter which was really a "normal winter" Wind has been our negative factor this year. We are still below our average snowfall total but drifting has been the issue. I know D5 is the Permit Selling Entity but many others ( us included) have numerous PSE's all of whom must submit the post Dec 1st ($260) permits so the district can have an accurate picture of the funds (30%) that they should be receiving back from the OFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 At issue to is the lag time between the retail sale at the vendors and data entry. It is more important this year that this is up to date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Yes Faceman, that is correct, the district is the pse, and I am wondering if we have forwarded to much money per club per permit sale. I am wondering if we are banking to much on what we "may" get per km of trail groomed. I guess once we got busy grooming and keeping this whole racket going, I haven't payed attention to all this other stuff or asked any questions. Is the pts up and fully operational yet, have we been given the Dec.1 permit sale number yet? I know our club is or is very close to being north of 800 sales total to date. My club is doing fine, but we are holding off on doing many things because of the unknown, we may need everything we have just for fuel and repairs. This ffc is not as smooth as we where promised.......not unless there is a whole lot more info out there that I have somehow missed out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 Well, we all have lots of snow, a real "surprise" and a new funding model to work with. How are your districts dealing with the FFC grooming dollar budgets compared to the actual dollars being spent. Will we have enough $ for the season ? Sounds like we are all in the same situation, still alot of unknowns. I guess we all are grooming alot more then our 4 year averages that the FFC bugeted for us. If this is a bad thing God help us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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