Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 What is about the allotted grooming hours? Can someone explain this to me? Thanks, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Some clubs with the big bank accounts may just have to dip into the old sock to keep going. The worst thing that could happen to permit sales next year is for clubs to stop grooming now. What if they do not have a sock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 What if they do not have a sock? I know some don't but lots do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 What is about the allotted grooming hours? Can someone explain this to me? Thanks, Greg Yes me too. I did not hear of anything from the OFSC in Dec. I thought the FFC model that we voted on at AGM is what we should be considering when budgeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes me too. I did not hear of anything from the OFSC in Dec. I thought the FFC model that we voted on at AGM is what we should be considering when budgeting I thought ofsc was going by weeks open and how many kms of trail that club has. Since some clubs were idling groomers to rack up the grooming hour average in tfe past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bsledding Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I thought ofsc was going by weeks open and how many kms of trail that club has. Since some clubs were idling groomers to rack up the grooming hour average in tfe past. Yes weeks open & km of trails is part of it. But, no one seems to be able to answer my questions as previously posted about having to go over allotted grooming hrs to provide the service to permit buyers, and if the OFSC can compensate clubs for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 I thought ofsc was going by weeks open and how many kms of trail that club has. Since some clubs were idling groomers to rack up the grooming hour average in tfe past. Groommers have GPS units in them. That should be stopping this. With the Matrix and no GPS units idling groomers as I have been told would "make you $ " but now it is a whole new ballgame and hopefully will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I cannot imagine idling your groomer to cheat the system. The thought of this sickens me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes weeks open & km of trails is part of it. But, no one seems to be able to answer my questions as previously posted about having to go over allotted grooming hrs to provide the service to permit buyers, and if the OFSC can compensate clubs for this. For this first year of FFC and the package we voted on at AGM I am thinking the OFSC is letting the districts run with the budget number letting them decide how to divide the $. Yes, I do believe the OFSC is monitering the trail availability and grooming hours in the different districts and will adjust the budget numbers for next years model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yes weeks open & km of trails is part of it. But, no one seems to be able to answer my questions as previously posted about having to go over allotted grooming hrs to provide the service to permit buyers, and if the OFSC can compensate clubs for this. In FFC, you get 30% of the permit sales, $72 for every km of trail, $66 for every grooming hour and admin money. There is nothing on groomer weeks and I think also nothing on open trails. Grooming is paid on grooming hours. Every district has a set amount of grooming hours and get paid the $66 until that amount. As I said earlier in FFC if there are districts who don't groom their set amount, the OFSC can move that amount around. Most likely not much will be moved around. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 I cannot imagine idling your groomer to cheat the system. The thought of this sickens me. x2 Now this should be stopped We have our "brother" watching ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 In FFC, you get 30% of the permit sales, $72 for every km of trail, $66 for every grooming hour and admin money. There is nothing on groomer weeks and I think also nothing on open trails. Grooming is paid on grooming hours. Every district has a set amount of grooming hours and get paid the $66 until that amount. As I said earlier in FFC if there are districts who don't groom their set amount, the OFSC can move that amount around. Most likely not much will be moved around. Thanks Greg Any extra money would come from permit sales increases. We can only hope that with this great winter that permit sales are up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am going to contact my district ops director about all this today, and I encourage the rest of you to do so too. I am a groomer coordinator for 1 of my clubs groomers, and I have had heated debates with some directors about not grooming some trails when they want. I try and tell them we don't know exactly what we are getting for funding with this new system. They say we have the money, just groom. I say the money won't last forever if we don't get any back. We are closing in on 700hrs between both groomers, if this continues we will easily crowd 1k in hours. Something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 In FFC, you get 30% of the permit sales, $72 for every km of trail, $66 for every grooming hour and admin money. There is nothing on groomer weeks and I think also nothing on open trails. Grooming is paid on grooming hours. Every district has a set amount of grooming hours and get paid the $66 until that amount. As I said earlier in FFC if there are districts who don't groom their set amount, the OFSC can move that amount around. Most likely not much will be moved around. Thanks Greg Greg, this was the original proposal before agm, look at the revised version that was presented at agm, from what I understand those numbers you just posted where not in the revised version. I haven't seen the complete proposal, just a short section, and it read very differently than the original proposal did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 In FFC, you get 30% of the permit sales, $72 for every km of trail, $66 for every grooming hour and admin money. There is nothing on groomer weeks and I think also nothing on open trails. Grooming is paid on grooming hours. Every district has a set amount of grooming hours and get paid the $66 until that amount. As I said earlier in FFC if there are districts who don't groom their set amount, the OFSC can move that amount around. Most likely not much will be moved around. Thanks Greg That is my understanding too, nothing on groomer weeks or open trails. ( that is what will determine the future budget numbers I think) For this year they used the Km of trails from interactive map I was told. The grooming $ comes from the hrs on the machines and the trail $ comes from the trail expenses that are eligible. There is a MAXIMUM for these items so at this time we are all close to grooming hrs. Can we use trail $ to supplement the grooming shortfall? What about the permit $ , we have that too for grooming, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 In FFC, you get 30% of the permit sales, $72 for every km of trail, $66 for every grooming hour and admin money. There is nothing on groomer weeks and I think also nothing on open trails. Grooming is paid on grooming hours. Every district has a set amount of grooming hours and get paid the $66 until that amount. As I said earlier in FFC if there are districts who don't groom their set amount, the OFSC can move that amount around. Most likely not much will be moved around. Thanks Greg Except that natural corridor trail ie lakes only get $15 per km. Permit sales must be up you have a hard time buying a used sled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volunteer2 Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am going to contact my district ops director about all this today, and I encourage the rest of you to do so too. I am a groomer coordinator for 1 of my clubs groomers, and I have had heated debates with some directors about not grooming some trails when they want. I try and tell them we don't know exactly what we are getting for funding with this new system. They say we have the money, just groom. I say the money won't last forever if we don't get any back. We are closing in on 700hrs between both groomers, if this continues we will easily crowd 1k in hours. Something to think about. Of all district meeting we don't have one in Feb. I think we should have one. Maybe the executive is meeting to try and figure things out because at our last club meeting we had no answers on this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Greg, this was the original proposal before agm, look at the revised version that was presented at agm, from what I understand those numbers you just posted where not in the revised version. I haven't seen the complete proposal, just a short section, and it read very differently than the original proposal did. Yes they caped the difference between FFC and status quo. For sone districts, the difference is up to $80,000. For district 1, we will receive $10,000 less. Our club has about 500 groomer hours and we are already over 600. Most likely we come to the 1000. Stopping grooming we can't. If all clubs can pay the 70% of the after December 1 permit sales can pay back? Most likely not. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Of all district meeting we don't have one in Feb. I think we should have one. Maybe the executive is meeting to try and figure things out because at our last club meeting we had no answers on this situation. Nobody has. Also the governors/OFSC not. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Any extra money would come from permit sales increases. We can only hope that with this great winter that permit sales are up I am not sure, if that money can be moved to grooming. If I am right, the FFC is saying something about this. Haven't one on hand. Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redfisher Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 A lot of info in this thread, Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Spoke this morning with out governor and the July payment will be most likely more because the higher permit sales. How much more, nobody knows. I expect between the 5-10% more but that doesn't pay for the more grooming hours b Thanks Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bsledding Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Spoke this morning with out governor and the July payment will be most likely more because the higher permit sales. How much more, nobody knows. I expect between the 5-10% more but that doesn't pay for the more grooming hours b Thanks Greg I can tell you now to keep the trails in reasonable shape for what appears to be a long season this year, our club will have to groom approx. 50% more this season than our 4yr average. Our 4yr average is 786hrs. In 2010, we groomed 1375 hrs, in 2011 786hrs, in 2012 403hrs, and in 2013 580hrs. This season (2014) conditions are just as good if not better than our 2010 year. So my question is, are we going to receive the "grooming expense" rate of $62.79 based on our 4yr average (786hrs) or our actual of approx.1200hrs for this season? The difference here folks is 414 additional hrs (over and above our 4yr average) X $62.79 per grooming hour. That is an additional $25,995.00 of grooming expenses that I would like to know if we are going to receive or not! Every club should be asking this question, if they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggie Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I can tell you now to keep the trails in reasonable shape for what appears to be a long season this year, our club will have to groom approx. 50% more this season than our 4yr average. Our 4yr average is 786hrs. In 2010, we groomed 1375 hrs, in 2011 786hrs, in 2012 403hrs, and in 2013 580hrs. This season (2014) conditions are just as good if not better than our 2010 year. So my question is, are we going to receive the "grooming expense" rate of $62.79 based on our 4yr average (786hrs) or our actual of approx.1200hrs for this season? The difference here folks is 414 additional hrs (over and above our 4yr average) X $62.79 per grooming hour. That is an additional $25,995.00 of grooming expenses that I would like to know if we are going to receive or not! Every club should be asking this question, if they don't know. All the money for grooming hours goes to the district and every district has their way to hive it back to the clubs. The district grooming hours are the district average grooming hours. If there is money left in July, it will be paid out. Most lukly you will never get the 400 grooming hours paid. I think, if you get paid 100 hours, be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I am not sure, if that money can be moved to grooming. If I am right, the FFC is saying something about this. Haven't one on hand. Thanks Greg How can it not pay for grooming that is what it is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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