Buy Where You Ride -- I Doubt It

[bbakernbay]

I just reviewed the list of all of the postal codes from the 4 categories of OFSC Trail Permits that were purchased from our Club for 2010-2011

Of the total, only 8% were purchased from 'out-of-towners'.

I don’t know how that compares with other Clubs.

Does anyone know their Club's figures?

Looking at it another way, were 92% of the riders on NBSC trails 'Locals’?

Not likely this year.

The question is what can we do to increase our sales to out of towners?

I wonder if that is the case in Cochrane, Dub, etc.?

[skidooer]

The question is what can we do to increase our sales to out of towners?

1. Marketing. I can name about three snowmobile clubs in the entire OFSC network, and that now includes the NBSC thanks to your active involvement. But pick a random snowmobiler from the trail and they won't even know who the NBSC is.
   
2. Accessibility. My permit dealer only sells for my local club, I have absolutely no idea who I'd need to track down if I wanted to fund the NBSC.
   
3. Incentive. Odds are that I'm going to ride my local trails first, so it seems natural to fund them first. What do I gain by sending my money to the NBSC?
   

Just some food for thought.

[Canuck]

You're onto something, BBB. Researching postal codes is brilliant.

As for 'suggestions' for out of town permit sales - the old mailouts by the North Bay District were awesome. I haven't received any since I bought permits 'locally' last year, but North Bay (District) and Iroquois Falls were the first 'out of town' areas I bought from years ago, and I recall the North Bay mailings were outstanding.

Quite frankly, with the new Hwy 11and easier access to your area, the 'use' of your trails will grow exponentially.

[bbakernbay]

All 3 valid points.

For the smaller Clubs, not us yet, the OFSC and member Clubs are going to have to find a reasonable way to finance these small clubs who have little revenue but high traffic in years like we just had.

Several of the other Clubs in District 11 are successful 'financially' because they have placed their permits at a location(s) in Metro Toronto, and possibly elsewhere where there are no territorial infringements.

You would have to have a trustworthy dealer or seller to make it happen and probably some form of 'grease'

[SlowTouringGuy]

Interesting topic !

Another factor is the good old uncontrollable weather. I had no plans on sledding in the North Bay region this winter - my sledding plans were well in place before the end of December. I bought 3 permits from my local club, 1 from the MSR which allowed me to spread the revenue amongst the clubs closest to my local club that belong to that organization, 1 from LucVille and 2 from Quebec. I bought no permits from NBSC.

The weather did not allow me to sled in District 7 to any great extent at all. Or, should I say, I elected not to sled to any great extent here because the weather left the trail conditions hugely inferior to their usual pristine shape (despite the hurculean efforts of the local clubs) It was a dismal year here and those 3 permits represented vastly fewer kilometers of trail riding than my historical averages around here.

The weather/trail conditions did not allow me to take the late season ride I had anticipated for Lucville.

I got full use out of my Quebec permits.

So, 7 out of 7 permits were purchased in anticipation of "buy where you ride" and yet I didn't ride anywhere near what I anticpated in the 5 of those 7 areas.

I also put on about 1,000 km in two weekends in North Bay. Thanks to your 'marketing' of the area, I found trails that were terrific and lodging that was splendid. I visited there without plans to do so in the Pre-December 1st window wherein one must make their "buy where you ride" decision in order to save (a sum not to be sneezed at) on the price of a full-season permit.

2 out of 7 permits purchased fit the "buy where you ride" slogan and I bought 0 out of 7 permits for the area in which I put on some really memorable miles.

I agree with suggestions I already see here but, don't forget, Mother Nature can still throw a spanner in the works !

[white dragon]

bought permit in barrie & never rode our trails...was in n.bay a few times...next yr i will need two & nbsc will be my outta town permit...

[dweese]

I bought one full and 2 classic permits from 2 different clubs and nether one opened or groomed a trail this year. So we rode everyone else's trails. So how does that work? Two clubs that never even had a groomer leaf the shed this year, I would think they should have to turn some of their permit money back in to a pool to be shared with the clubs that buster their butts keeping what trails we had open this year. That would only be fair right?

[Wildbill]

I bought one full and 2 classic permits from 2 different clubs and nether one opened or groomed a trail this year. So we rode everyone else's trails. So how does that work? Two clubs that never even had a groomer leaf the shed this year, I would think they should have to turn some of their permit money back in to a pool to be shared with the clubs that buster their butts keeping what trails we had open this year. That would only be fair right?

Yes that would be fair

[dweese]

Yes that would be fair

But does it happen?

[Wildbill]

But does it happen?

a little but not much.

[bbakernbay]

This past winter season may prompt such a discussion at the OFSC Board of Governors.

This past season is too big to ignore and the 'Thinkers' should be discussing the options of letting some Clubs build up big cash stockpiles while their riders go elsewhere to find the snow and those clubs hosting them don't get fairly compensated for their expenses.

The OFSC will probably be favouring northern clubs when they award funds for groomers and that is certainly very welcome but it can't stop there.

[Bryan XC700]

I've mentioned this before & haven't had anyone comment on it. But is it possible for a northern club to partner with a southern club for instance Glencoe Snowmobile Club down here, whose permits get sold by all the local dealers here. Is it feasible? For this very reason BBB I've sold trail permits for Argyle Riders (Port Loring) for several years & before that I was selling for Cramadog (Ardbeg stopped selling for them for reasons that would take to long to explain). Anyways I was only able to ride twice this year & both times were at the cottage & my riding was spent on Argyle's, Cramadog, Dunahmic & Restoule trails. Now typically I sell between 15-30 permits depending on the year (that may drop next year due to this year) but that is Permit $ that would have gone to Glencoe Snowmobile club who didn't open a trail this year & in several years past would only be open a couple of weeks out of the year.

So once again is a partnership feasible or even allowed through the OFSC.

[Doogirl69]

Why not but your next years permit from where you rode this year. I believe the Matrix is based on a 4 year average so if it was done this way ,the dollars will catch up over time.

Its impossible to predict where you are going to ride before December 1st hense the "buy where you ride" will not work. It should be changed to "buy where you rode".

[SlowTouringGuy]

Why not but your next years permit from where you rode this year. I believe the Matrix is based on a 4 year average so if it was done this way ,the dollars will catch up over time.

Its impossible to predict where you are going to ride before December 1st hense the "buy where you ride" will not work. It should be changed to "buy where you rode".

A great example of why these discussions can be productive.

Thanks for posting an elegant and logical proposal !

[dweese]

Why not but your next years permit from where you rode this year. I believe the Matrix is based on a 4 year average so if it was done this way ,the dollars will catch up over time.

Its impossible to predict where you are going to ride before December 1st hense the "buy where you ride" will not work. It should be changed to "buy where you rode".

That's what I'm doing. Even if I don't ride there next year. It will help balance things out.

[Faceman]

Stand alone clubs will have a tougher time than Associations. We have GBST as our Association and it works very well (IMHO) We can cover groomer breakdowns and other multi club issues quicker than a stand alone but I guess there are two sides to every situation. I heard of one "situation" this past winter with a stand alone club having groomer issues and before it could be resolved there were many riders so "upset" for lack of better that they have indicated that it was their first and last trip through that area. Not sure what the answer is, I know things are going to be tight at the OFSC level next winter and believe that proper education and enforcement will be necessary. There are no more "kingdoms" in this industry anymore. We all need to work together to market the best product possible.

[white dragon]

Why not but your next years permit from where you rode this year. I believe the Matrix is based on a 4 year average so if it was done this way ,the dollars will catch up over time.

Its impossible to predict where you are going to ride before December 1st hense the "buy where you ride" will not work. It should be changed to "buy where you rode".

this makes sense...would help club that seen alot traffic the year before... help with repairs to groomer etc...''buy where you rode'' i like it...

[Fred Quimby]

Will the 4 year off -set of the matrix make up for differentials? Such as as an example..Haliburton saw above average ridership this year, and most of that was from the south. If pass purchasers bought from this club next year, that club sees an influx in permit dollars. Great. But, what happens if it is an off Winter up here next year as was the case last Winter (2010/2011)? Almost a catch 22. Then they don't need the additional permit dollars, but maybe the Wasaga club get's hit hard with a great Winter yet sees little money come in from previous years sales as there was no snow..follow me?

How do you implement a pendulum to swing the other way?

[Doogirl69]

Will the 4 year off -set of the matrix make up for differentials? Such as as an example..Haliburton saw above average ridership this year, and most of that was from the south. If pass purchasers bought from this club next year, that club sees an influx in permit dollars. Great. But, what happens if it is an off Winter up here next year as was the case last Winter (2010/2011)? Almost a catch 22. Then they don't need the additional permit dollars, but maybe the Wasaga club get's hit hard with a great Winter yet sees little money come in from previous years sales as there was no snow..follow me?

How do you implement a pendulum to swing the other way?

Then Wassaga will benefit during the 4 year average to buy equipment, fix bridges etc.

This is a "user fee" type sport is it not?

You can't predict where you will ride, but you know where you rode. Very simple.

[Fred Quimby]

Then Wassaga will benefit during the 4 year average to buy equipment, fix bridges etc.

This is a "user fee" type sport is it not?

You can't predict where you will ride, but you know where you rode. Very simple.

I get the concept for sure, great idea. I just don't know how you would phase it in, fairly.

[Canuck]

Will the 4 year off -set of the matrix make up for differentials? Such as as an example..Haliburton saw above average ridership this year, and most of that was from the south. If pass purchasers bought from this club next year, that club sees an influx in permit dollars. Great. But, what happens if it is an off Winter up here next year as was the case last Winter (2010/2011)? Almost a catch 22. Then they don't need the additional permit dollars, but maybe the Wasaga club get's hit hard with a great Winter yet sees little money come in from previous years sales as there was no snow..follow me?

How do you implement a pendulum to swing the other way?

Wasaga thru Stayner had great snowfalls 2010-2011. Much worse last winter.

Haliburton had little snow 2010-2011. Great snow last winter.

The system does seem to even out.

[skidooer]

You can't predict where you will ride, but you know where you rode. Very simple.

You're still faced with the same problems I outlined earlier.

Who are the clubs you rode on? Other than the couple of clubs around my home, I have no idea what other club trails I have been on. To further complicate matters, you can easily go through several on any given outing. How do you choose which one is most worthy of your money?

If you figured out who should get your money, where do you buy the permit? Like I mentioned, my permit dealer only sells for the local club, as does everyone else who I know sells permits. Nobody sells NBSC permits here and they are not even allowed to if they wanted to.

Lastly, I could figure out the logistics if I put in a lot of effort, but why should I? The OFSC is the OFSC is the OFSC. There's nothing gained by me putting in hours of work to buy from the NBSC when I can pick up the same permit with no effort at all.

Those who put in the long volunteer hours, those who are passionate enough about the sport to spend hours talking about it here, they will put in the extra effort to spread the money around where it should go. It is complicated because normal people are not like that, and you cannot really expect them to be.

[02Sled]

Most people I have spoken to have no idea of the club that they ride in. They know the district and the area but not the club(s). Many are even surprised to learn that there are specific clubs and they can direct where their permit money goes. They perceive it as just being the OFSC.

[Doogirl69]

You're still faced with the same problems I outlined earlier.

Who are the clubs you rode on? Other than the couple of clubs around my home, I have no idea what other club trails I have been on. To further complicate matters, you can easily go through several on any given outing. How do you choose which one is most worthy of your money?

If you figured out who should get your money, where do you buy the permit? Like I mentioned, my permit dealer only sells for the local club, as does everyone else who I know sells permits. Nobody sells NBSC permits here and they are not even allowed to if they wanted to.

Lastly, I could figure out the logistics if I put in a lot of effort, but why should I? The OFSC is the OFSC is the OFSC. There's nothing gained by me putting in hours of work to buy from the NBSC when I can pick up the same permit with no effort at all.

Those who put in the long volunteer hours, those who are passionate enough about the sport to spend hours talking about it here, they will put in the extra effort to spread the money around where it should go. It is complicated because normal people are not like that, and you cannot really expect them to be.

Rider's might not know exactly what Club they rode in but they should be able to figure out what District they rode in. They also have about 9 months to figure it out.

They can go to the OFSC site http://www.ofsc.on.ca/about-us/locate-a-district.html call the District number and buy a permit over the phone and have it mailed without the $10 charge for buying at the OFSC online site.

Again very simple.

[Mossy]

My local club has forgot about me again this year. I wasn't on the list of volenteers and didn't get invited for a fifth straight year! I don't know if I will buy local again.