2011 OFSC AGM

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Actually I do, even if I didn't you certainly wouldn't see me bitching and making unfound accusations about people who do and how they run the org they put their time into to help others.

Duck and Dodge, never answer the question do you.

The bottom line is Nutter is I do admire the time and dedication you put in. No question.

I dont like the way you come across, i dont like to be preached at. I dont like the fact that you think we cant have a voice just because some dont volunteer. Its presumptious and elitist.

If you noticed I also did defend you in saying you were right about how the OFSC works and that what you were saying is true. I noticed you kept playing the victim and never acknowledged that.

My much simpler point is this and I think Wildman echoes it. I decry the fact that I and others are looked down upon because supposedly we dont volunteer. When in fact, that a sport such as snowmobiling where the cost/maintenance and upkeep is so expensive that we try and save a couple of hundred dollars a year by volunteering. Those hours of volunteering if used in another capacity by raising money or simply volunteering time to help a cause like children with cancer is much more noble and rewarding. A must more just cause. I find it really hard to admire the volunteers of this sport (their cuase not their efforts), when I watched a little boy of 12 die of cancer last week. He had it since he was 2. That is a cause worth looking after.

[Lep]

Everyone should read RainX reply........there is alot of clubs out there that would love to have a Nutter in there club.....along with a few other's.....fact is if you dont know the date of the AGM contact your club they will tell U....we dont have the time and resorces to sit down and call every permit holder that bought a permit from our club BUT if they call or attend our meetings they will get the answers they want......fact is the club has to get the word out...its like our own trail staking day there's about 8-10 regular members but come trail staking day we have about 40-60 bodies show up WHY??????

Every permit holder can attend the agm if they want to.......do they have a vote NO.....can they voice there opinion usually NO as floor time is limited......point is if u want to know more step up to the next level and u will learn we need NEW BLOOD and idea's.My season starts next month with a bbq with the regular member's and anyone else that wants to attend from there its 2-3 meeting monthly till May,and yes I still make time for family/friends etc.

Maybe its time some of you need to attend some of the club/district/AGM meetings and see the age groups that are at these meeting's thats why I got involved without NEW YOUNGER BLOOD the sport we all love won't last another 40yrs.

Flame away.........

[blakesnowcrest]

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[Lep]

Lucky what the ???? are u talking about you have a ONE track mine......read the post......NO old boys club in my club when u want to visit PM me I will gladly pick u up.......same goes for the AGM or what ever district meeting u would like to go to............or are u one that just rides and $itches about clubs and trails?????????????

Sammy

[Lep]

i am trail patrol in my district and i do alot with the club i belong to, so lets not start the do something and you'll find out crap.

i just don't like the politics and the secret society bullshit that some play. it's like a kids game

Lucky sorry for the flame you are correct about the sercet BS but there is some of us that want to change or improve on that topic but without help from some more of our permit buyers getting more involved and seeing and hearding what goes on they dont understand.......alot of the upper brass are older and thats the way they have been doing it for years,they know they need change with all the new tech etc but they dont want to go down that road the young blood with all the tech knowledge are the ones that need to take the next step.My post above I thought i answered the ?? about voting and attending the AGM etc....maybe I am wrong in what I am saying but thats the way I see it.

[Lep]

What the OFSC has to do is get there Web site more user friendly and up to date,,,,,,why were we wasteing $$$ last year on a local radio station about buying permits early and the big show in TO when it was Feb???Pissed me right of and Barrie(The Palace)heard about it,they were gone within a week.I know the ofsc has to make changes but they are going to need help from all 230 clubs to make these changes happen.

Here's a link from Maine this is what we need at the Palace's website.

[mxz800]

save your self the stress boys ................ride Quebec.....

[couchrocket500]

Simple question, are the minutes of these AGM's available to everyone including permit buyers?, eg. posted on the OFSC website. If not, Why not. Thanks

[sledjunk]

Simple question, are the minutes of these AGM's available to everyone including permit buyers?, eg. posted on the OFSC website. If not, Why not. Thanks

They are definitely not posted on a web site. Also, the minutes of last year's AGM are not official until accepted at this year's AGM, which is normal practice. As to whether a permit holder is entitled to them, I am not entirely sure. While a permit buyer is a shareholder, there may be some resistance to getting this information. I expect that a query to the OFSC office may answer that question, to some extent.

Perusing the Corporations Act may give a more accurate answer as to your legal rights.

[Wildman]

Simple question, are the minutes of these AGM's available to everyone including permit buyers?, eg. posted on the OFSC website. If not, Why not. Thanks

I am going to say no. I don't know 100% but what usually happens with the Board of Governor (BOG) meetings, is the minutes are forwarded to the district reps, they forward to the secretary of each club in their district, "Our" secretary forwards it to our clubs governing board. I would think that is what happens with the minutes of the AGM, I just can't remember.

I will go out on a limb and say the reason it is not on the O.F.S.C. web site is because they follow this chain that hasn't been broke. Don't misinterpret what I am saying, no where have I said I agree with it, I am just telling you how it is done. But again remember, you can go through the certain channels to get the info, it is just not where "you" want it.

[Wildman]

Lucky sorry for the flame you are correct about the sercet BS but there is some of us that want to change or improve on that topic but without help from some more of our permit buyers getting more involved and seeing and hearding what goes on they dont understand.......alot of the upper brass are older and thats the way they have been doing it for years,they know they need change with all the new tech etc but they dont want to go down that road the young blood with all the tech knowledge are the ones that need to take the next step.My post above I thought i answered the ?? about voting and attending the AGM etc....maybe I am wrong in what I am saying but thats the way I see it.

Lep, things are changing in some districts, the club I belong to, there isn't 1 board member that is over 60, there are 2 that are maybe 55ish a bunch between 32 and 41. This year we would have had a couple that are in their mid to late 20's, but they where away on a 4 wheeler trip and didn't take the necessary steps before leaving. I have been to the district 5 director meetings and there are some young faces and this year at district elections some of the younger people accepted positions on the district board. It takes time and education, ramming it down peoples throat is not a very tactical approach, and that seems to be the way it is handled on this forum. I find it very unnecessary.

[SlowTouringGuy]

Lep, things are changing in some districts, the club I belong to, there isn't 1 board member that is over 60, there are 2 that are maybe 55ish a bunch between 32 and 41. This year we would have had a couple that are in their mid to late 20's, but they where away on a 4 wheeler trip and didn't take the necessary steps before leaving. I have been to the district 5 director meetings and there are some young faces and this year at district elections some of the younger people accepted positions on the district board. It takes time and education, ramming it down peoples throat is not a very tactical approach, and that seems to be the way it is handled on this forum. I find it very unnecessary.

And isn't that, essentially, how this got going 3 pages ago. That it would be most beneficial for the provincial entity to be more transparent, welcoming and open. I used as an example my club - a one-time club of the year - that spiralled into a handfull of old guard who didn't want to change, did not welcome new ideas and shared nothing and has recently transformed to a club that is healthy and growing with new faces (and younger faces) with enthusiasm and purpose. There is nothing in the operation of the club that is kept from any member. This spirit of transparency and openess, one that is being embraced by successful businesses, is one that I think (and suggested on page one) would benefit all clubs and the mother ship.

Unfortunately, it seems from the next number of posts, we have a long way to go. A long long way. Particularly evidenced by this quote: "Ever think it's because none of the clubs are interested in making that info public ? What a terribly sad statement that is. And a shame that those clubs feel that way. And reinforcement to the perception of so many potential members that it remains an unwelcoming old boys' club.

I'm glad to see there has been some change in some clubs like Wildman has just noted. If members continue to support, defend, and argue for preserving the status quo we will continue to face the problems of burnout. If more members can open their eyes to change we've got a chance.

[Wildman]

And isn't that, essentially, how this got going 3 pages ago. That it would be most beneficial for the provincial entity to be more transparent, welcoming and open. I used as an example my club - a one-time club of the year - that spiralled into a handfull of old guard who didn't want to change, did not welcome new ideas and shared nothing and has recently transformed to a club that is healthy and growing with new faces (and younger faces) with enthusiasm and purpose. There is nothing in the operation of the club that is kept from any member. This spirit of transparency and openess, one that is being embraced by successful businesses, is one that I think (and suggested on page one) would benefit all clubs and the mother ship.

Unfortunately, it seems from the next number of posts, we have a long way to go. A long long way. Particularly evidenced by this quote: "Ever think it's because none of the clubs are interested in making that info public ? What a terribly sad statement that is. And a shame that those clubs feel that way. And reinforcement to the perception of so many potential members that it remains an unwelcoming old boys' club.

I'm glad to see there has been some change in some clubs like Wildman has just noted. If members continue to support, defend, and argue for preserving the status quo we will continue to face the problems of burnout. If more members can open their eyes to change we've got a chance.

well STG, my local club has a younger exec. board but we still struggle to attract the members to help out. We did encourage a couple of the older long time execs. to stick around as directors, as their knowledge is priceless. They declined and assured us they where only a phone call away, and they would still attend meetings. They have and that is a great help. The problem is most want to ride the trails, give their input when they see you around town or whatever, but they don't want to attend the meetings and help out. I know most clubs have this problem. We have thought about using some of our fund raiser money to put on some type of function to get the members together, but we start getting worried about what other club members will think about us spending club money that way. It is difficult to execute something fun but still fall within all the rules, and attract people to come out without offending members that don't agree with it all.

The thing is,once enough clubs overcome these issues and it trickles to the district level, things will change. It is going to take time to overcome all these hurdles, but I am optimistic that it will happen and it has to if this thing is going to continue.

[Canuck]

.

Here's a link from Maine ...

Great link.

Two things leap out:

1. It's about snowmobiling in Maine. A feel good, "why we do it" approach. Not better, or worse, than Ontario's - although I like the focus on the state as opposed to the organization. They kept repeating Maine (and it may have been state sponsored) whereas our ads seem to use the term OFSC a lot.

2. It shows people being served wine at the end of the day. Restaurants and others who support sledding in their community will appreciate that.

The Maine snowmobile association is an eye opener for transparency: AGM - http://www.mesnow.com/TheMSA.html

Interesting how they deal with fees http://www.mesnow.com/MembershipCard.html

__

Some will see the benefit of viewing how 13,000 mile/ 30,000 member / 290 club associations govern. http://www.mesnow.com/WhatIsTheMSA.html

Others will think it a waste of time.

This topic will run it's course, but sledding in Ontario benefits from the input of anyone, and everyone.

[Canuck]

In the spirit of fairness, I should also point out that Nutter has a twin in Marcellus, New York:

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE AN ACTIVE MEMBER

Are you an active member, the kind who would be missed, or are you just contented that your name is on the list?

Do you attend the meetings, and mingle with the flock, or do you stay at home and criticize and knock?

Do you take an active part to help the work along, or are you satisfied to be the kind who just belongs?

Do you ever work on committees to see there is no trick, or leave the work to just a few and talk about the clique?

So come to meetings often and help with hand and heart, don't just be a member but take an active part.

Think this over brother, you know right from wrong; are you an active member, or do you just belong?

http://www.marcellussnowmobileclub.com/1084.html

The above is posted with a smile on my face, since I am aware of your contributions to sledding and your community. If it appears as your signature on this forum, I may shoot myself.

[couchrocket500]

They are definitely not posted on a web site. Also, the minutes of last year's AGM are not official until accepted at this year's AGM, which is normal practice. As to whether a permit holder is entitled to them, I am not entirely sure. While a permit buyer is a shareholder, there may be some resistance to getting this information. I expect that a query to the OFSC office may answer that question, to some extent.

Perusing the Corporations Act may give a more accurate answer as to your legal rights.

Thanks for the reply Sledjunk. Understand the need to ratify last years minutes at this years AGM, usually common practice to ratify at the next meeting with most organizations. Just wondering, would this mean that anything approved last year not be implimented till the 11-12 season? Might not be a bad thing to share the minutes openly, I don't know, might open the eyes of some people sitting on the fence as to the complexities of any province wide organization as well as give insite to the next years group of delegates as to what their ratifying. After all, it's not like there are other organizations competing or trying to take over OFSC mandate so why not be as open as possible. We all have at least one thing in common, a passion for playing in the snow. Isn't that what we're all about?

[couchrocket500]

I am going to say no. I don't know 100% but what usually happens with the Board of Governor (BOG) meetings, is the minutes are forwarded to the district reps, they forward to the secretary of each club in their district, "Our" secretary forwards it to our clubs governing board. I would think that is what happens with the minutes of the AGM, I just can't remember.

I will go out on a limb and say the reason it is not on the O.F.S.C. web site is because they follow this chain that hasn't been broke. Don't misinterpret what I am saying, no where have I said I agree with it, I am just telling you how it is done. But again remember, you can go through the certain channels to get the info, it is just not where "you" want it.

appreciatte the reply Wildman. Guess it is what it is and thank God it is. See you're from Forest, wonder if the Rooster will be open this year?

[Wildbill]

Sorry thought you were also named Bill ? I don't see my debating tact any different from some of the others on here ? Other then I don't make unfound alligations .....

Dear Nutter

Your tone and your words often seem to imply that others are not allowed an opinion that differs from yours. Your efforts and passion are unquestioned.

[Classic]

i think the big picture here is... that we the permit holders, ARE THE OFSC. if there are some that dont think, or beleive that, then there lies the ofsc's biggest obstruction. without permit buying members, you would have no ofsc, no board of govenors, no agm, no funding, no equipment, and NO TRAILS.

AND YES, WE ARE MEMBERS OF THE OFSC. the clubs and districts are our delegates, and our voice but, again, to get newer people in, you should have the meetings open enough to allow the avg sledder in, to learn, and maybe, gain an interest to want to help further, and help make changes. even if they have to pay their own way.

we ALL should have a vote, a say, and know what is going on, be able to offer suggestions and critisizms. i know some say, we need to go through "the club". well, what if you dont see eye to eye on the issues the club, and the ofsc faces??? where does that individual get to be heard? what if you dont like the direction the club, the district, and the ofsc is heading???? if you cant get in to be heard, due to other people eliminating routes of communication, you will always have issues with members thinking there is something going on that isnt right.

if everyone isnt included, or at least offered to be included, there will always be an air of deception.

is there a chain of command? the answer is yes. is it correct or sustainable? the answered is not so clear.

EVERYONE SHOULD KEEP AN OPEN MIND. with the global, information age, things should change and evolve to reflect the current state of affairs for officers, clubs, disctricts, and members ALIKE!

ski

If you buy a Chevy pickup does that make you a shareholder in GM? Like wise some one who buys a permit from a snowmobile club.

[Nutter]

Dear Nutter

Your tone and your words often seem to imply that others are not allowed an opinion that differs from yours. Your efforts and passion are unquestioned.

From the other side of the fence ....

Dear Wildbill

The tone and words of the OC old boys club more often then not seem to imply that others are not allowed an opinion that differs from theirs. In there words and tones they accuse rather then question the efforts of others.

[Wildbill]

From the other side of the fence ....

Dear Wildbill

The tone and words of the OC old boys club more often then not seem to imply that others are not allowed an opinion that differs from theirs. In there words and tones they accuse rather then question the efforts of others.

And such is often the course of the "written word". Too much is read into words and from a spark comes the flames and the following explosion. As someone that knows most of those involved in this discussion I can and will tell you that these are all good people with a passion for the sport that we all enjoy.

[Lep]

Lep, things are changing in some districts, the club I belong to, there isn't 1 board member that is over 60, there are 2 that are maybe 55ish a bunch between 32 and 41. This year we would have had a couple that are in their mid to late 20's, but they where away on a 4 wheeler trip and didn't take the necessary steps before leaving. I have been to the district 5 director meetings and there are some young faces and this year at district elections some of the younger people accepted positions on the district board. It takes time and education, ramming it down peoples throat is not a very tactical approach, and that seems to be the way it is handled on this forum. I find it very unnecessary.

Agreed Wildman....its great to see the new face's stepping up.... fortunately I am in the same boat as yourself great club with a great mix and open to new things/faces.....makes me mad why we are stomped on the same old ques and the same anwsers are put up,and some just dont get it....just because they cannt hit a few buttoms and find the answers its a "old boys club"......yes we need some changes and that is going to take time but it also means more work/bodies etc......and time.....

Unfortunately if the changes or what ever happens to get all our Clubs/Districts/OFSC working together, needs to be addressed in the near future thats if my kids are going to have the enjoyment/memories/friendships I had.....and we are going to need HELP meaning bodies to get the job done......punching keys just wont do it.....

[Wildman]

appreciatte the reply Wildman. Guess it is what it is and thank God it is. See you're from Forest, wonder if the Rooster will be open this year?

change of hands on the Rooster, George from Skeeter Barlow in Brights Grove bought it, major renovations. He opened it this Monday, I have heard it is very good,it should be, the 1 in the Grove is awesome. Not sure if u where into Forest last season, we groom right to the parking lot,the trail is groomed through the bush behind Bluewater Ford. I don't know if we can get the new groomer through there though, time will tell. If we had of got the Tucker, it fit between the hydro polls and the fence posts at the Ford dealer, but we opted out on that 1.

[couchrocket500]

change of hands on the Rooster, George from Skeeter Barlow in Brights Grove bought it, major renovations. He opened it this Monday, I have heard it is very good,it should be, the 1 in the Grove is awesome. Not sure if u where into Forest last season, we groom right to the parking lot,the trail is groomed through the bush behind Bluewater Ford. I don't know if we can get the new groomer through there though, time will tell. If we had of got the Tucker, it fit between the hydro polls and the fence posts at the Ford dealer, but we opted out on that 1.

Sounds good! Missed Roosters last season. Know Forest pretty well, the backway, sideways and the right way.LOL. Find it a nice sled friendly town, but the same goes for Watford, Warwick, Thedford, Parkhill, never had a problem in any of them. Live in Corunna but sled from my in-laws in Reeses Corners. Think I'll step up and join the Warwick gang if they'll have an old guy like me, we'll see! Thanks again Wildman.

[blakesnowcrest]

Agreed Wildman....its great to see the new face's stepping up.... fortunately I am in the same boat as yourself great club with a great mix and open to new things/faces.....makes me mad why we are stomped on the same old ques and the same anwsers are put up,and some just dont get it....just because they cannt hit a few buttoms and find the answers its a "old boys club"......yes we need some changes and that is going to take time but it also means more work/bodies etc......and time.....

Unfortunately if the changes or what ever happens to get all our Clubs/Districts/OFSC working together, needs to be addressed in the near future thats if my kids are going to have the enjoyment/memories/friendships I had.....and we are going to need HELP meaning bodies to get the job done......punching keys just wont do it.....

If we want to get rid of the Old Boys clubs, we NEED new blood. As STG said, our club as turned around 100%. We are no longer a Old Boys Club and we have new members. We still have members that are 70+, but they have realized that we need to change. We had a member in his 20s who steped up and became a board member. Do we still have some problems- Yes, all clubs have some problems.

I think if we want to see some good change, we need a fresh BOG and and a fresh executive comity IMO. But they have to know what they are doing...