dweese Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'd like to see a map thats 99.9% correct first before we worry about anything else LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'd like to see a map thats 99.9% correct first before we worry about anything else LOL My offsets are a little off, but that should be easily corrected. The data comes straight from the same source as the web version, so statuses and routes should always be identical to it. I'm thinking of throwing it up on GitHub in the spirit of the OFSC. I'm not sure why the official OFSC app isn't. What happened to volunteerism? Anyway, is anyone interested in collaboration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 we could incorporate some OC-specific features like find the nearest OC member and stuff like that. Some of us may not want to be found (The Mayor of Housey's Rapids as an example). I imagine that GPSrs don't work that well in that area of the province. I've read something about RFI or jamming being suspected. Tin foil seems to be a big seller @ the local WallyMart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Some of us may not want to be found (The Mayor of Housey's Rapids as an example). I imagine that GPSrs don't work that well in that area of the province. I've read something about RFI or jamming being suspected. Tin foil seems to be a big seller @ the local WallyMart. watch out for Bedbugs at WallyMart, it a hot spot for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Anyway, is anyone interested in collaboration? I am!!! How shall I collaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Weather radar + Trail maps No, it's not really snowing that hard. I used an archived image for the purposes of this demo. I am!!! How shall I collaborate? Writing code, testing, ideas, it's all good. Ideally we would work with the OFSC to improve their app. Work together, not against, and all that. It seems silly to have to duplicate efforts for an organization that wants and actively pursues help from people like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Skidooer, I hope the OFSC takes you up on your suggestions even though I won't be using them. A pox on the OFSC if they give you the "not invented here" routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks revrnd. I have heard from many long-time members that they started volunteering because they had a dream and wanted to volunteer their time to make it happen. I had some fun tinkering this evening. I think the possibilities are exciting, even if they are not for everyone. What is most important is that we are blessed with the ability to play around with some ideas and see where they end up. When everything is locked down and the can only be opened after a lengthy arbitration process, dreams die and the volunteer time goes with it. I'm not asking the original developer to volunteer even more of his valuable time to improve the app. I'm saying, why not let any volunteer, who is willing, work to improve the app and other OFSC services? That is, after all, the spirit of the OFSC and the foundation on which it was built. I fear we are heading in the exact opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Question for Nutter.. Will the OFSC be issueing a Press Release to inform everyone of the glitch and the corrective measures that will be taken?. IMO people are spending money on this faulty product and deserve to be informed of it's inaccuracies... I am pretty sure this would be under Risk Management.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks revrnd. I have heard from many long-time members that they started volunteering because they had a dream and wanted to volunteer their time to make it happen. I had some fun tinkering this evening. I think the possibilities are exciting, even if they are not for everyone. What is most important is that we are blessed with the ability to play around with some ideas and see where they end up. When everything is locked down and the can only be opened after a lengthy arbitration process, dreams die and the volunteer time goes with it. I'm not asking the original developer to volunteer even more of his valuable time to improve the app. I'm saying, why not let any volunteer, who is willing, work to improve the app and other OFSC services? That is, after all, the spirit of the OFSC and the foundation on which it was built. I fear we are heading in the exact opposite direction. Cliff /Skidooer U have entertained OC for many year's with sugestions and tech that works U have offered your service's to the Palace OFSC but like always it falls on deaf ear's, U probally might be stepping on some's toes,keep up the great work,if its that easy to develop get a hold of the OFSC offer your knowledge and then put the $$$$$ to it,the OFSC lately has no problem pissing away our hard earned permit dollars........ PS Cliff up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakejoe Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Interesting, alewcock, thanks for the post. So......if you had to trust one over the other are you saying the PC shot is going to give me more accurate information than the iPhone shot ? Hi SlowTouringGuy, in this particular example with the Top D, I think the website is the more accurate one. It's probably safest to follow the *less open* information. I believe the old OFSC saying is: If you have time to complain, you have time to help. Let us take them up on that and help build a better trails app. I've got the statuses overlaid on Google Maps working. Have pinching, zooming, and whatnot working including iPad support. It is far from complete, but then again, I've only spent like an hour working on it. Hi skidooer, that's a fantastic start! I'm a developer (not with any objective-C experience unfortunately, yet) and would love to contribute. I don't like to complain when there's something I can do about it, I just assumed based on the way the OFSC has deployed this technology (two different systems) that it would be an uphill battle that I don't have time to fight. I'm curious where you got the existing trail and status data from? I'd like to see a map thats 99.9% correct first before we worry about anything else LOL This should be the highest priority. I crossed Peninsula Lake last week up in Hunstville and the trail heads north east on the map, but is actually (staked) south east in real life leading to a completely different point. Things like this are what make it difficult for trip planning and trail side assistance. In my opinion, we need a more reliable coordinates data source, maybe multiple? OFSC plus crowd sourced data from actual riders would be a great way to get the trail coordinates more accurate. Status updates from the clubs need to go to a single point of entry at least, to prevent these sync errors. We could write a management app that pushes data to all the disparate systems if necessary and provide it to the OFSC. Ideally we would have one database which all apps (and websites) draw from, but crawl, walk, run... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 ...I crossed Peninsula Lake last week up in Hunstville and the trail heads north east on the map, but is actually (staked) south east in real life leading to a completely different point. Things like this are what make it difficult for trip planning and trail side assistance... Actually, alewcock, to be strictly correct, Pen Lake is staked in BOTH directions...N/E as per the District 7 Map (paper copy), connecting with Trail 77 at Tally Ho Resort on Hwy. 60, and S/E to North Portage at Wolf Bay Rd/Muskoka Rd. 23, where it connects with Trail 54, also as per the District 7 map (paper copy.) Where the inconsistency arises is that the Interactive Trail Map on the OFSC web-site has omitted that S/E link across Pen Lake, and shows only the N/E connection to 77. This speaks to your point above about potential confusion for trip planning and trail side help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 might be stepping on some's toes That's what I was getting @. You talk to the OFSC & they seem receptive. Then they take your suggestion to their developer & he gets his or her back up because they feel they're being undermined. When you Iphone/Ipad experts get the OFSC straightened out, maybe you could develop a single piece of software to convert Mapsource tracks & waypoints into maps. Reved sent me the links to the THREE necessary files & my eyes glazed over. Good luck guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakejoe Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Actually, alewcock, to be strictly correct, Pen Lake is staked in BOTH directions...N/E as per the District 7 Map (paper copy), connecting with Trail 77 at Tally Ho Resort on Hwy. 60, and S/E to North Portage at Wolf Bay Rd/Muskoka Rd. 23, where it connects with Trail 54, also as per the District 7 map (paper copy.) Interesting... I had a feeling that might be the case. We passed the south east crossing to trail 54 multiple times but didn't see any other trail or stakes from it and weren't interested in venturing off the staked path to find it. Do both the north east and south east trail converge at Deerhurst? It's shocking to me that a paper map would have more current info than the online systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Interesting... I had a feeling that might be the case. We passed the south east crossing to trail 54 multiple times but didn't see any other trail or stakes from it and weren't interested in venturing off the staked path to find it. Do both the north east and south east trail converge at Deerhurst? It's shocking to me that a paper map would have more current info than the online systems. Been awhile since I have been on the lake but the trails would actually converge on the lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Weather radar + Trail maps Now your talking, thats what this app should have been in the first place. Makes me almost want to go buy an iPhone LOL.... Keep up the good work skidooer, I've only seen the app once and listening to everyone around here talk it sounds like they could have done a lot better with this app.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I'm curious where you got the existing trail and status data from? The web-based version is a deployed using the open source MapServer application, which exposes a developer-friendly API. A good start by the OFSC, but the raw data should have been made available from day one so that volunteer efforts are not bound by what is provided in map form. The official iPhone app does, as far as I can tell, pull down raw data, but finding the source would require some reverse engineering and opening a whole new can of worms. Hopefully the OFSC is using the iPhone app as a trial run to prepare opening it in the future. I realize these things take time and cannot happen overnight. If the OFSC wants to keep development closed and run it like a private enterprise, that is certainly within their prerogative. I have absolutely no problem with the OFSC becoming a private business if those involved want to be, but they need to tell us volunteers of the change. As of right now, there are too many mixed messages being sent. OFSC plus crowd sourced data from actual riders would be a great way to get the trail coordinates more accurate. I think that is the direction to head. As we see from this forum, snowmobilers love to share information, which probably stems right from the roots of the sport which was built on the sharing of efforts to build the trail network. Each club runs as their own corporation and theoretically could provide the information outside of the OFSC conglomeration if the OFSC doesn't want to play, but I really cannot understand why they wouldn't want the help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koopie Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Been awhile since I have been on the lake but the trails would actually converge on the lake. The trails converge on the lake right out front of Deerhurst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Good work Skidooer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakejoe Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 The trails converge on the lake right out front of Deerhurst. I was there 3 days ago, and the north east trail from Deerhurst is definitely not staked. There appeared to be a few old tracks heading off in that direction, but as I said earlier, I wasn't interesting in crossing an unstaked piece of lake. It looks like the north east trail got terminated, and the OFSC removed the wrong trail from the online system. Maybe someone from the club can chime in? Either way, it's more evidence that we need a better way to keep this stuff up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 So, I'm prepping my iPhone app to publish it as open source, but I'm having some difficulty choosing licence terms in which to distribute it. I feel the GPL is almost perfect for this circumstance, and feel it comes with the same spirit shared by the OFSC clubs. However, it comes with some challenges should we ever want to distribute the work on the App Store as its terms are not fully compatible with the GPL. I'm normally a BSD/Apache fan, but fear such licence could find the app in the same position the official one lives now (i.e. volunteers would be unable to volunteer their time to make it better). The GPL would provide some protection to volunteers, ensuring that they may continue development, no matter what direction the app is taken. Feedback by developers and non-developers alike would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Feedback by developers and non-developers alike would be appreciated. One idea is to make it useable in the summer on the water and highways... Weather is very important when out on the lakes (especially the great lakes).. A year round app would have appeal to more people and could gain popularity throughout the off season.. Also pre-loaded waypoints for forum sponsors and snowmobile supporters through out the province... Great work Adam.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I was there 3 days ago, and the north east trail from Deerhurst is definitely not staked. There appeared to be a few old tracks heading off in that direction, but as I said earlier, I wasn't interesting in crossing an unstaked piece of lake. It looks like the north east trail got terminated, and the OFSC removed the wrong trail from the online system. Maybe someone from the club can chime in? Either way, it's more evidence that we need a better way to keep this stuff up to date. Are you SURE there were no stakes going N/E, from the western part of the lake (near Deerhurst)?...that link trail is definitely NOT terminated, because it connects on the north side of the lake with Trail 77. I had heard from some other locals that Pen Lake was fully staked by last Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonut Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 So, I'm prepping my iPhone app to publish it as open source, but I'm having some difficulty choosing licence terms in which to distribute it. I feel the GPL is almost perfect for this circumstance, and feel it comes with the same spirit shared by the OFSC clubs. However, it comes with some challenges should we ever want to distribute the work on the App Store as its terms are not fully compatible with the GPL. I'm normally a BSD/Apache fan, but fear such licence could find the app in the same position the official one lives now (i.e. volunteers would be unable to volunteer their time to make it better). The GPL would provide some protection to volunteers, ensuring that they may continue development, no matter what direction the app is taken. Feedback by developers and non-developers alike would be appreciated. Feedback? Ok, here's mine. I have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Ignore the donut chucking hippo ballerina (If it doesn't have a spark plug, he ain't interested) I think the weather feature above is novel, and a great addition to the product if it doesn't slow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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