District 16

[AkronOrange]

Does anyone know what's happening with District 16 for the coming season? Rumor has it that they don't have any money and more trails than A107A will not be open this year. Anyone know the status of the trails into Hillsport or Manitouwadge? I have a call into the District, I will post any information that I receive.

Thanks,

[rainX]

Does anyone know what's happening with District 16 for the coming season? Rumor has it that they don't have any money and more trails than A107A will not be open this year. Anyone know the status of the trails into Hillsport or Manitouwadge? I have a call into the District, I will post any information that I receive.

Thanks,

My "investigation" suggests the following:

Manitouwadge club = closed, and no trail access at all to Manitouwadge.

A107A = closed (last year permanently).

D109A = closed

Hornepayne to Hillsport to Longlac = should be open.

[AkronOrange]

That's exactly what I heard. I don't get it. How do we (you) attact more people when there are less trails? That's like increasing spending in a poor economy.....forget I said that.

I heard that the district sold only 48 passes last year. Do you think it's because people in district 16 are "bad" people and refuse to buy passes? Do you think that maybe the economy is so bad that they might not be able to afford a pass? Wouldn't now be the time to find a way to help those that need help? I think that OFSC needs to grow a set... Could Hearst groom all the way to Longlac? Might 13 help with D109A? I don't know. I do know that if I can't ride all of the places I want to ride I just won't come. The clubs from North Bay south will have all the money and the weekend warriors will rule the trails.

[AkronOrange]

I talked with Kevin the new President of the Longlac club today. They are still hoping to get the needed funding to keep all of the trails open.

[revrnd]

Looking @ the map & TOP A is "blank" between Geraldton & Nipigon. The Greenstone Loop is still open.

[AkronOrange]

I believe that 16 is going to try to keep the Superior Loop open this year. If you're interested in riding the area I recommend that you contact Danielle at District 16 or the appopriate club below.

District 16 office - nossa@bellnet.ca

Longlac - Kevin Kinzett big_biker@hotmail.com 807-853-0390

Hornepayne - Fred Boimistruck fboimistruck@tbaytel.net 807-868-2235

White River - Ryan LeBreton ryanlebreton660@hotmail.com 807-822-2039

Thunder Bay - Marcel Gauthier mddgau@shaw.ca 807-473-9488

Marathon - Gord Linfield linfield@vianet.ca

Good Luck and lets start doing the snow dance now,

[Wildman]

I was talking to a lady from Longlac that owns a bunch of cabins and is involved with the snowmobile club, and she said that the population depleted drastically with the failure of the soft lumber market. This was at the end of this past August. The understanding at that point, was it didn't look good for the upcoming season.

I was up there in early October and was forced to visit Kal Tire, and speaking with them, the economy is slowly making a turn, they had been extremely slow for the last 2 years, but where actually busy now. They had skidder tires all over the place and I did see that new logging was going on. So maybe the club can hang on and keep at least some of the trails open. That A107 or what ever it is from Hearst to Longlac is a big undertaking, and with so few resources along that trail and lack of funding, would be a good 1 to drop if that would keep the rest open. It sucks, but could be better than the alternative.

[Snowberg]

Once again i find myself aggravated that OFSC just can't seem to do more for the northern clubs.

I spend more money, take more time off work, and drive much farther than I have to, to ride the best trails in Ontario. The Northern clubs have long trails, some have extremely difficult terrain, much less population, and lower permit sales because of it. If you have ever been up there to meet the wonderful people that makes it all possible you know its not because of a lack of effort.

With the economy putting more pressure on the area OFSC just needs to do more, plain and simple.

[Wildbill]

Once again i find myself aggravated that OFSC just can't seem to do more for the northern clubs.

I spend more money, take more time off work, and drive much farther than I have to, to ride the best trails in Ontario. The Northern clubs have long trails, some have extremely difficult terrain, much less population, and lower permit sales because of it. If you have ever been up there to meet the wonderful people that makes it all possible you know its not because of a lack of effort.

With the economy putting more pressure on the area OFSC just needs to do more, plain and simple.

We do live in a world of limited resources. At this moment in time there is not enough money to go around anywhere. All the areas that have snow are struggling. Permit sales everywhere are gruesome. This leaves the OFSC with a lack of funds to spread around. I know for a fact that the OFSC does care about D16 and that the governor for D16 is trying very hard as he loves this area.

Just possibly the OFSC is not to blame the local economy is. Why is it that the mills are not only shutting down but being torn down too? Without these jobs and thier spinoff there is no locals with enough resources to ride and volunteer.

[FishHog]

well said Wildbill.

Its easy to point the finger at the OFSC, but just listen to the crying if they put a $10 increase on permits. Its such a balancing act, that they truly are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wish there was an easy answer, but until the economy recovers fully, were just going to have to deal with less than we used to have.

[Classic]

Once again i find myself aggravated that OFSC just can't seem to do more for the northern clubs.

I spend more money, take more time off work, and drive much farther than I have to, to ride the best trails in Ontario. The Northern clubs have long trails, some have extremely difficult terrain, much less population, and lower permit sales because of it. If you have ever been up there to meet the wonderful people that makes it all possible you know its not because of a lack of effort.

With the economy putting more pressure on the area OFSC just needs to do more, plain and simple.

If you seen how many dollare are shoved to the northern districts every year, it would make your head spin. District 16 may survive but with only one trail across the district. Look at the Quebec trail system. They have one trail across the northern part of the province. They local population is not there and the US folks are not coming any more with a par dollar and gas at $6.00 a gal.. But the locals that are left don't buy permits but ride any way. Oh and by the way the Big Bad OFSC does not have a truck load of money sitting around for District 16 to draw on.

[Wildman]

Wildbill hit on it, permit sales are slow this year, the club I belong to here in district 5 has only sold between 40 and 50 permits so far. It will be real interesting to see how much they pick up in the next 2 weeks. The dealers around here are starting to have open houses and we are sending out people to man the permits, so hopefully sales pick up. As for the northern districts, I feel for them, and if there is money left over, they should get it, and they would if it was up to me.

[AkronOrange]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

[Classic]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

Explain your $20 statement that you pay extra please. I've never heard of it.

[Reved]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

Explain your $20 statement that you pay extra please. I've never heard of it.

$20 shipping fee to the US for online permits

[SlowTouringGuy]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

Explain your $20 statement that you pay extra please. I've never heard of it.

$20 shipping fee to the US for online permits

NFW !! ? Really ??

I've heard all sorts of empty arguments in favour of the OFSC online buying system. Give me the old MSR online system any day. There were none of these add on fees shenanigans nor were there any so called "issues" the defenders of the new system purport to avoid. All my data was stored in the system - VIN, address, etc. All I had to do was "click".

Since the "new and improved" online system has appeared I've gone back to the ludicrous purchase procedure of interfering with the day-to-day business of a local shop keeper to buy my permit. He has to manually complete a multi-part form while (real) customers stand in line. Because it is a once a year happening he struggles with the unfamiliar process and then struggles further with handling the payment. All the while he gets nothing for this aggravation but his paying customers must stand in line while I clutter the pay till.

Brilliant !

[skidooboy]

just another good reason, to avoid the ofsc online ordering process. get to know a club, or district (any club or district). call, give info and cc number. they send you the permit direct. most of the money goes to that club or district, without the interference of the red tape brigade. dubreuilville, wawa clubs are all known for quick processing and no added on fees. and i know they arent a point and click away but, really.... how hard is it to pick up the phone and dial a toll free number, and give your info to a real person????

and truely (i know i will get flamed for this). it really doesnt matter where you buy your permit, as long as you buy it. the ofsc has this "matrix" where money is funneled through processes for those that need "extra" help. the heavier selling regions help those with less permit sales for the better good of the WHOLE ofsc trail system, province wide.

now for those that want to flame me, think about this for a second......

even with "buy where you ride" what do you think would happen IF only one district or club, or the ofsc as a single seller of said permits, was the ONLY place we ALL bought our permits from? the money would be dispersed to ALL CLUBS, AND REGIONS, within the matrix rules that are in place.

so truely those clubs, districts that sell more, give back. then the ofsc distributes the remainder to those "requesting" funds. those that dont sell enough, request funds. and finally those that break even... break even. that is how the system is set up to work.

if you dont believe me, lets all (the entire ontario sledding community), EVERYONE, buy from ONLY ONE VENDOR. lets say wawa, or dub for sake of arguement. The ofsc would have THE club (or district), send all money into them beyond their "normal" operational budget, then dispersed the remainder through the matrix to all the other clubs, and regions throughout ontario, north, central and southern. that club or district truely wouldnt get any more funding than their "normal" budget. it would be dispersed through the whole trail system. so really, it doesnt matter where you buy, as long as you buy.

does that make sense? ski

[Classic]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

Explain your $20 statement that you pay extra please. I've never heard of it.

$20 shipping fee to the US for online permits

Every body pays $10 fee per permit for on line sales. You made it sound like it was a penalty reserved just for the Americans.

[AkronOrange]

Tough decisions. The northern districts don't have any people and don't have any money. The OFSC is charging us (US residents) $20 per permit to "buy where you ride", this is a disincentive. I travel to southern Ontario frequently and can buy from a "local" club and save 10%. Some of the Muskoka clubs sell permits through the local NY clubs. How is this fair? I ordered my permits directly through one of the clubs that need my support and had to work to do it. If OFSC really wants us to "buy where we ride" they should make it easy for us to.

All of us want to enjoy our sport, if conditions continue to persist as they have we (you) will all be riding in the most populated areas. I'll be spending my $$$$ in the southern US golfing. Perhaps that's the goal....

Explain your $20 statement that you pay extra please. I've never heard of it.

$20 shipping fee to the US for online permits

Every body pays $10 fee per permit for on line sales. You made it sound like it was a penalty reserved just for the Americans.

Just an extra $10 for us I guess. That sounds fair....

I agree with Ski, most importantly - buy a permit, support the sport. Regardless if you're from the States or from Canada, we shouldn't be charged extra for the on-line purchase, and after the experience of trying to order on-line, I feel like there should be a discount.

I have aways bought where I ride, I know those clubs more than any need the support. I'm headed to London tomorrow for some hockey, I could just buy them when I'm there. What do you think would be easier on me? I have expressed my displeasure with OFSC, I doubt it will do any good, but it made me feel better.

I did, by the way, make one of those phone calls and order the permits directly.

Wishing you all a safe, great, long snowy winter!

[02Sled]

It's unfortunate that some of the Northern areas in particular are strapped for cash but that seems to be just about everywhere. The "build it and they will come" line doesn't always work. It was built and they came for a while but with industry closing down people have to feed their families so they go elsewhere looking for work. The pool of people available to draw from for volunteers and permit buyers gets smaller.

Hoepfully the economics of the area will turn around and things will look up. After past poor snow perhaps some are reluctant to spend money they feel may end up wasted. This past weekend the just north of Barrie ski resorts have reported that their season pass sales are up about 50% from last year. With the forecast of La Ninia and a traditional Canadian winter such as was experienced between 1950 - 1980 era more people will see the value and buy the permits.

[AkronOrange]

Some of the areas have experienced 80% unemployment recently, no wonder they're having trouble with permit sales. I had trouble deciding between the good cause for "F" and the, not so well known, problems in District 16. I chose 16, I figured "F" would get plenty of attention.

In economic times like thes is is important that everyone support one another, keep the trails open. I think that when offenders without permits are subjected to the purchase of a permit at even a more elevated price.

Looking forward to a good season,

[Wildman]

In economic times like thes is is important that everyone support one another, keep the trails open. I think that when offenders without permits are subjected to the purchase of a permit at even a more elevated price.

I completely agree with you, the problem in the rural northern communities is enforcement. Allot of times the trail patrol is a business owner or a employee of a small business that relies on town folk to support the said business. Trail Patrol has a good Saturday afternoon and sells a bunch of permits and Monday morning the business the trail patrol works at has no customers because the town folk think he is a crook. A huge no win situation. Somehow, there needs to be trail patrol from another area to come in and look after the abusers. I truly believe in a zero tolerance on the trail permit, either buy it or be charged with trespassing, thats it.

[Big Reg]

In economic times like thes is is important that everyone support one another, keep the trails open. I think that when offenders without permits are subjected to the purchase of a permit at even a more elevated price.

I completely agree with you, the problem in the rural northern communities is enforcement. Allot of times the trail patrol is a business owner or a employee of a small business that relies on town folk to support the said business. Trail Patrol has a good Saturday afternoon and sells a bunch of permits and Monday morning the business the trail patrol works at has no customers because the town folk think he is a crook. A huge no win situation. Somehow, there needs to be trail patrol from another area to come in and look after the abusers. I truly believe in a zero tolerance on the trail permit, either buy it or be charged with trespassing, thats it.

[gwilburn]

well said Wildbill.

Its easy to point the finger at the OFSC, but just listen to the crying if they put a $10 increase on permits. Its such a balancing act, that they truly are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wish there was an easy answer, but until the economy recovers fully, were just going to have to deal with less than we used to have.

Just thought I'd check in... it's been since last March. I'll give my two cents (again)... I think I said last year that this was going to happen and everyone on here "ripped me a new one".

There are two trains of thought here (that closely match the two political parties here in the U.S.)... When revenues are down, OFSC can raise or lower the cost of permits (read "taxes"). I tend to believe that LOWERING the permit price would INCREASE revenue - more people would come, and more would buy a permit rather than risk getting caught w/out one. Many will disagree. But increasing them hasn't helped, and may have even hurt the OFSC revenue stream.

Personally, I really wanted our 2010 destination to be Ontario... I was the minority and was forced to go elsewhere... Sure, no one has quite the same trail system... but those in my group who "out voted" me cited the high cost of the trail permit, gas, and lodging. The passport requirement doesn't help either.

Most people have less money now than they did a few years ago... as such, most have reigned-in some of their spending. If I can still go on a "sledding trip" just by going someplace cheaper, it's better than not going at all.

IMHO... I think the OFSC needs to re-evaluate their permitting... drop the 7-day permit down below $100. They also need to work with the local businesses to encourage more agressive pricing for snowmobilers. That needs to happen to get the U.S. residents coming back to Ontario.

BTW - we went on our trip last year to the Western U.P. We had great trails and a great time. Each year that we go "somewhere else" makes it harder to get our group back to Ontario...

[Wildbill]

well said Wildbill.

Its easy to point the finger at the OFSC, but just listen to the crying if they put a $10 increase on permits. Its such a balancing act, that they truly are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I wish there was an easy answer, but until the economy recovers fully, were just going to have to deal with less than we used to have.

Just thought I'd check in... it's been since last March. I'll give my two cents (again)... I think I said last year that this was going to happen and everyone on here "ripped me a new one".

There are two trains of thought here (that closely match the two political parties here in the U.S.)... When revenues are down, OFSC can raise or lower the cost of permits (read "taxes"). I tend to believe that LOWERING the permit price would INCREASE revenue - more people would come, and more would buy a permit rather than risk getting caught w/out one. Many will disagree. But increasing them hasn't helped, and may have even hurt the OFSC revenue stream.

Personally, I really wanted our 2010 destination to be Ontario... I was the minority and was forced to go elsewhere... Sure, no one has quite the same trail system... but those in my group who "out voted" me cited the high cost of the trail permit, gas, and lodging. The passport requirement doesn't help either.

Most people have less money now than they did a few years ago... as such, most have reigned-in some of their spending. If I can still go on a "sledding trip" just by going someplace cheaper, it's better than not going at all.

IMHO... I think the OFSC needs to re-evaluate their permitting... drop the 7-day permit down below $100. They also need to work with the local businesses to encourage more agressive pricing for snowmobilers. That needs to happen to get the U.S. residents coming back to Ontario.

BTW - we went on our trip last year to the Western U.P. We had great trails and a great time. Each year that we go "somewhere else" makes it harder to get our group back to Ontario...

But comparitively the cost of the permit is low compared to the cost of the rest . I doubt that the OFSC can change the prices of gas,lodging and food . I know that they cannot change the passport scenario (that was brought on by the US government) . The biggest issue up in northern ontario is the lack of local economy.