when meeting A-holes

[cehyoopers]

I ride mid-week because I can,,,,,and always have,,,,I have not rode (serious riding)on a weekend for 20 yrs or better,,,,albeit late in the season when everyone is done,I will ride the odd weekend.I do not tear the trail up,just because I ride mid-week.I am respectfull of oncoming sleds,,,I have passed,,but only when waved pass.

Having said this,,,,

Mon/Tues is the best time to ride/worst time to find freshly groomed trails.Wedn/thurs you usually find groomed trails,but but thurs the the guys that think they are in a race are coming out.I have no problem with that,,,,if they are respectfull,,,ie,slow down when the approach sled(s) and pass with extreme caution,and don't rip the trail up,proving that they can spin their tracks to their buddy's.I also hate the drag racing from a dead stop,,,,these idiots our so stupid,,,they do not know that snow lump they hit on the way back from from them,

In the 80's we had a slogan,it still is used in Quebec,,"leave it for the next guy".There used to be signs on the trail also,"fast starts ruin our trails".

rant>off

Now,how about a wall of shame for these idiots,,,some place to say"seen 3 guys riding like,,,,,,on x trail,,forced me off the trail,,,,date time",just a thought.

oh yeah,during my last 2 days riding I had to take evasive maneuvers a few times,,,,but I also blew a sharp turn that snuck up on me,,,, ,lucky for me no one coming the other way,,,,it was a 5 mile per hour turn,I was going 10,,,,oops.

[Bark Biter]

I can so relate to this thread.

Last Friday when we headed to Kearney it was awesome, saw only a handful of sledders with manners.

On Satrurday coming back, the majority were great but as usual there were a few yahooos that had not respect for us as on coming sledders where as we as usual were courteous and slowed down, using hand signals as per the norm.

This Feb 1st will mark the 1st anniversay that John had a major accident due to a weekend warrior, where he was very lucky, but my new machine with only 275kms was not.

If the trees that John had gone through were a tad thicker I would have buried my husband at to young an age.

He is still undergoing therapy on his knee due to this incidnet, but I thank god that he is still here to go though that therapy.

[02Sled]

I can so relate to this thread.

Last Friday when we headed to Kearney it was awesome, saw only a handful of sledders with manners.

On Satrurday coming back, the majority were great but as usual there were a few yahooos that had not respect for us as on coming sledders where as we as usual were courteous and slowed down, using hand signals as per the norm.

This Feb 1st will mark the 1st anniversay that John had a major accident due to a weekend warrior, where he was very lucky, but my new machine with only 275kms was not.

If the trees that John had gone through were a tad thicker I would have buried my husband at to young an age.

He is still undergoing therapy on his knee due to this incidnet, but I thank god that he is still here to go though that therapy.

Happy your other half is still around to sled another day. It is sad that the sane often have to pay the price for the insane and the insane are also way too often just plain arrogant. It is a my perception only but it sure seems that those among the insane group are growing in numbers. If I see some of the throttle jockeys racing up behind us I will typically look for a spot to actually pull to the side, stop and let them pass. We were out this time last year and a group of the stand up all the time and go as fast as you canners came up behind us. We stopped and let them pass. A short time later we caught up to them and passed them while they were taking 5 at the side of the trail. A short time later they were running up our rears again. We stopped and let them by again. The cycle repeated itself a number of times with the same group that day. What a pain in the #$% they made of themselves.

[sledjunk]

It is frustrating and dangerous when meeting riders that are out of or almost out of control in a blind corner. We all need to try to drive within our limits.

However, my nose would grow if I said that I always ride within the speed limit. I must admit that I am rarely within the speed limit, however, I am usually well in control. As ceyhoopers admits, there are times when a turn is tighter than perceived and can catch you off guard. Most times these are not malicious or even careless, simply mistakes.

However, I am of the belief that if you make a mistake, there is usually a price to pay and you must be willing to accept the responsibility for that, too.

I have ridden trails and caught up with slower riders. Usually, they will, as 02sled mentions, stop, or slow and let me by. Other times, such as a couple of weeks ago, I caught a group of riders that were much slower than I was, they knew I was there, but did not stop to let me pass. No big deal. When we came onto a wide open stretch with clear visibility, I went by.

We all need to recognize that we are in this sport for similar but not necessarily the same reasons. I don't belittle or disrespect the slower riders on the trail and I expect the same from them. Just because I ride a little quicker than some others does not necessarily make me more of a danger. (I have followed a number of very slow riders who were seemingly oblivious to their surroundings and to which side of the trail they were supposed to be on!)

BTW, I have also ridden (many times) with others who were much quicker than I. I learned a lesson years ago from a friend who first got me into putting serious miles on in a day. He said that he would lead but that I should ride at whatever speed I was comfortable with. He said that if he got ahead of me, not to worry, he would wait at the next turn for me. If he rode the speed that I liked, he would not have as much fun, and conversely, if I was riding beyond my comfort level, I would not have as much fun. Pretty simple concept, but it seems to work for me (and so far, most of the people I ride with)

Just my 2¢

[b-bry]

My wife & I rode the Seguin with Scrummage last Saturday & saw a few of those throttle jocks out riding their penises. One guy came up from behind - didn't see him in my mirror - and blew by me (I was going 35 mph). Scared the crap outta me. As soon as he went by he nailed it, throwing up chucks of snow all over me & my machine. I slowed and pulled right to the edge of the trail and let his equally man-part-deficient buddies go flying by.

Ooooh, we were all sooooo impressed.

Or maybe I'm being too hard on those fellas - maybe we should feel sorry for them because they were born with inadequate man-parts and single digit IQs. In a perfect world, they'd all be out on a lake with unsafe ice helping to thin out the gene pool.

[cehyoopers]

My wife & I rode the Seguin with Scrummage last Saturday & saw a few of those throttle jocks out riding their penises. One guy came up from behind - didn't see him in my mirror - and blew by me (I was going 35 mph). Scared the crap outta me. As soon as he went by he nailed it, throwing up chucks of snow all over me & my machine. I slowed and pulled right to the edge of the trail and let his equally man-part-deficient buddies go flying by.

Ooooh, we were all sooooo impressed.

Or maybe I'm being too hard on those fellas - maybe we should feel sorry for them because they were born with inadequate man-parts and single digit IQs. In a perfect world, they'd all be out on a lake with unsafe ice helping to thin out the gene pool.

these are the people I am talking about,,,,,,,

[Bark Biter]

We are still new to the sledding sport, but it seems like these yahooo's are just getting worse as the machines get more powerful.

When I see sledders coming up my rear I do pull over as does John does, as he would rather wave them by and not have me panicing. But most times I would love to just slightly move into the centre of the trail and piss em off,

That is just the sadistic streak I tend to have in me at times,

[revrnd]

I have ridden trails and caught up with slower riders. Usually, they will, as 02sled mentions, stop, or slow and let me by. Other times, such as a couple of weeks ago, I caught a group of riders that were much slower than I was, they knew I was there, but did not stop to let me pass. No big deal. When we came onto a wide open stretch with clear visibility, I went by.

We all need to recognize that we are in this sport for similar but not necessarily the same reasons. I don't belittle or disrespect the slower riders on the trail and I expect the same from them. Just because I ride a little quicker than some others does not necessarily make me more of a danger. (I have followed a number of very slow riders who were seemingly oblivious to their surroundings and to which side of the trail they were supposed to be on!)

BTDT as well. We caught up to 2 sleds (leader on a Plus & the 2nd sled a Citation LS). The rider on the Plus kept looking back @ us (about 10 sleds running bumper to bumper). We finally got by but I imagine there was cursing afterwards directed in our direction.

Another time following 2 Indy Lites & they were putt putting along right down the middle of the trail. I couldn't get by them. Everytime they went up a hill I cringed as I figured a sled would be coming from the other side.

[Ritchie]

BTDT as well. We caught up to 2 sleds (leader on a Plus & the 2nd sled a Citation LS). The rider on the Plus kept looking back @ us (about 10 sleds running bumper to bumper). We finally got by but I imagine there was cursing afterwards directed in our direction.

Another time following 2 Indy Lites & they were putt putting along right down the middle of the trail. I couldn't get by them. Everytime they went up a hill I cringed as I figured a sled would be coming from the other side.

I have always wondered why we all need to be taught to drive a car, motorcycle, and to some extent PWC, but why can anyone with a drivers licence jump on a snowmobile for the first time and have no or little idea of the "rules of the trails" My kids both drive sleds and have both taken a course to obtain a licence to legally ride the trails. This course should be manditory or all sledders. It is not the same as driving a car . A good portion of the people out there can't do that very well either.We have all followed that "newbee" style sledder riding down the trail with there mirrors pointed to the sky,driving straight up the centre of the trail ,over hills etc and the only way this will ever change is to educate them with manditory training. Sometimes common sense doesn't always prevail. Just my 2

[Wildbill]

I have always wondered why we all need to be taught to drive a car, motorcycle, and to some extent PWC, but why can anyone with a drivers licence jump on a snowmobile for the first time and have no or little idea of the "rules of the trails" My kids both drive sleds and have both taken a course to obtain a licence to legally ride the trails. This course should be manditory or all sledders. It is not the same as driving a car . A good portion of the people out there can't do that very well either.We have all followed that "newbee" style sledder riding down the trail with there mirrors pointed to the sky,driving straight up the centre of the trail ,over hills etc and the only way this will ever change is to educate them with manditory training. Sometimes common sense doesn't always prevail. Just my 2

Yeh thats what we need MORE GOVERMENT !!!!

[Ritchie]

Yeh thats what we need MORE GOVERMENT !!!!

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

[Reved]

...Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

No Pain No Gain!

besides it's only his head he'll be alright

[Wildbill]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ritchie]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

[Wildbill]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

Your obviously a little optimistic if you think that any course would get these clowns to behave . Likely the best education is the tree that they inevitably hit . As far as the OFSC using these courses to offset costs I am very sure that complicating the manner in which you get into the sport will not help the sport. Most drivers are pretty good although we all make mistakes . The few that behave poorly need to be dealt with . Now as far as a fundraiser maybe we should get the ticket revenue that relates to charges on OFSC trails. As for the banghead it is how many volunteers feel with the amount of regulation that is now related to the sport. Has this regulation made the sport better? NO! It has been a response to the amount of lawsuits and other related issues such as the Ministry of Labour etc. All it has done is hasten volunteer burnout and discouraging new people from getting involved . How to deal with the dumbasses ? Dealt with a few over the years Enough sentences for you Witchie?

[Ritchie]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

Your obviously a little optimistic if you think that any course would get these clowns to behave . Likely the best education is the tree that they inevitably hit . As far as the OFSC using these courses to offset costs I am very sure that complicating the manner in which you get into the sport will not help the sport. Most drivers are pretty good although we all make mistakes . The few that behave poorly need to be dealt with . Now as far as a fundraiser maybe we should get the ticket revenue that relates to charges on OFSC trails. As for the banghead it is how many volunteers feel with the amount of regulation that is now related to the sport. Has this regulation made the sport better? NO! It has been a response to the amount of lawsuits and other related issues such as the Ministry of Labour etc. All it has done is hasten volunteer burnout and discouraging new people from getting involved . How to deal with the dumbasses ? Dealt with a few over the years Enough sentences for you Witchie?

Yes I am optimistic, why not? All I would like to know is if anyone else feels there would be any benefit to a training course (regardless of who runs it ) to help make the trails safer. If anything it should help promote safer trails for families getting in the sport. Back to you hillbilly

[Wildbill]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

Your obviously a little optimistic if you think that any course would get these clowns to behave . Likely the best education is the tree that they inevitably hit . As far as the OFSC using these courses to offset costs I am very sure that complicating the manner in which you get into the sport will not help the sport. Most drivers are pretty good although we all make mistakes . The few that behave poorly need to be dealt with . Now as far as a fundraiser maybe we should get the ticket revenue that relates to charges on OFSC trails. As for the banghead it is how many volunteers feel with the amount of regulation that is now related to the sport. Has this regulation made the sport better? NO! It has been a response to the amount of lawsuits and other related issues such as the Ministry of Labour etc. All it has done is hasten volunteer burnout and discouraging new people from getting involved . How to deal with the dumbasses ? Dealt with a few over the years Enough sentences for you Witchie?

Yes I am optimistic, why not? All I would like to know is if anyone else feels there would be any benefit to a training course (regardless of who runs it ) to help make the trails safer. If anything it should help promote safer trails for families getting in the sport. Back to you hillbilly

I can tell you for absolute sure that the boaters card has not helped make boating safer therefore why would another imposed course make sledding safer ? As far as promoting safety just pick up most of the magazines etc. They almost all promote sno-cross type riding . Now why would we make a new rule and test that effects everybody when we should be dealing with the few bad apples . This is the type of blanket protecting us from ourselves that is destroying our society. We need more freedoms and tougher consequences.

[revrnd]

They almost all promote sno-cross type riding .

Until the OFSC directly says something about the absolutely STUPID behaviour on the trails (instead of the warm & fuzzy "Go Snowmobiling" ads), nothing will change IMO. Maybe video of a sled wrapped around a tree or a "race type" sled smashed head on into a touring or "budget" type sled.

Hey, I love watching the SX racing, AT THE TRACK. I tried it back in the mid 90s @ Westgate & did miserably. I bet a lot of these wannabes on the trails would get their asses whupped by some of the Juniors that are racing full time.

[Ritchie]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

Your obviously a little optimistic if you think that any course would get these clowns to behave . Likely the best education is the tree that they inevitably hit . As far as the OFSC using these courses to offset costs I am very sure that complicating the manner in which you get into the sport will not help the sport. Most drivers are pretty good although we all make mistakes . The few that behave poorly need to be dealt with . Now as far as a fundraiser maybe we should get the ticket revenue that relates to charges on OFSC trails. As for the banghead it is how many volunteers feel with the amount of regulation that is now related to the sport. Has this regulation made the sport better? NO! It has been a response to the amount of lawsuits and other related issues such as the Ministry of Labour etc. All it has done is hasten volunteer burnout and discouraging new people from getting involved . How to deal with the dumbasses ? Dealt with a few over the years Enough sentences for you Witchie?

Yes I am optimistic, why not? All I would like to know is if anyone else feels there would be any benefit to a training course (regardless of who runs it ) to help make the trails safer. If anything it should help promote safer trails for families getting in the sport. Back to you hillbilly

I can tell you for absolute sure that the boaters card has not helped make boating safer therefore why would another imposed course make sledding safer ? As far as promoting safety just pick up most of the magazines etc. They almost all promote sno-cross type riding . Now why would we make a new rule and test that effects everybody when we should be dealing with the few bad apples . This is the type of blanket protecting us from ourselves that is destroying our society. We need more freedoms and tougher consequences.

The boating card is useless ,as you can write the test until you pass . You don't pass other boats at high rates of speed on narrow trails ,so the chance of near misses are greatly reduced. The same type of testing should be applied to sleds as do cars and bikes. I agree the best part of snowmobiling is the freedom you get ,but as the horsepower of these machines have triple in the last two decades we unfortunately have to find means to control the needless injury and death that is increasing on the trails today. We could also point the finger at the manufacturers as they have promoted the sport wrongly for years.Sno-cross has helped build interest in the sport ,but it has brought these riding habits to the very trails we all ride.

[Wildbill]

Who said anything about government BILLY! Have the OFSC demand that a safety course is completed to obtain a permit for the trails or to rent a sled .Oh and BTW stop smashing your head off that brick .... thats going to leave a mark

please please please do not complicate the permit process !!!!!!!!!!!!

The OFSC sets up the courses, they collect the revenue, this helps lower costs, creates safer trails ,which in turn lowers their liability. Seams like a no-brainer. Billy do you think you can put more then one sentence together in response to this ,or do you feel you the need to beat your head some more? I wish I had a cute little smiley face for you too.

Your obviously a little optimistic if you think that any course would get these clowns to behave . Likely the best education is the tree that they inevitably hit . As far as the OFSC using these courses to offset costs I am very sure that complicating the manner in which you get into the sport will not help the sport. Most drivers are pretty good although we all make mistakes . The few that behave poorly need to be dealt with . Now as far as a fundraiser maybe we should get the ticket revenue that relates to charges on OFSC trails. As for the banghead it is how many volunteers feel with the amount of regulation that is now related to the sport. Has this regulation made the sport better? NO! It has been a response to the amount of lawsuits and other related issues such as the Ministry of Labour etc. All it has done is hasten volunteer burnout and discouraging new people from getting involved . How to deal with the dumbasses ? Dealt with a few over the years Enough sentences for you Witchie?

Yes I am optimistic, why not? All I would like to know is if anyone else feels there would be any benefit to a training course (regardless of who runs it ) to help make the trails safer. If anything it should help promote safer trails for families getting in the sport. Back to you hillbilly

I can tell you for absolute sure that the boaters card has not helped make boating safer therefore why would another imposed course make sledding safer ? As far as promoting safety just pick up most of the magazines etc. They almost all promote sno-cross type riding . Now why would we make a new rule and test that effects everybody when we should be dealing with the few bad apples . This is the type of blanket protecting us from ourselves that is destroying our society. We need more freedoms and tougher consequences.

The boating card is useless ,as you can write the test until you pass . You don't pass other boats at high rates of speed on narrow trails ,so the chance of near misses are greatly reduced. The same type of testing should be applied to sleds as do cars and bikes. I agree the best part of snowmobiling is the freedom you get ,but as the horsepower of these machines have triple in the last two decades we unfortunately have to find means to control the needless injury and death that is increasing on the trails today. We could also point the finger at the manufacturers as they have promoted the sport wrongly for years.Sno-cross has helped build interest in the sport ,but it has brought these riding habits to the very trails we all ride.

You obviously have not spent much boating time in the south channel but thank you for agreeing that the boaters card is useless . The real issue is the nut behind the handlebars . Deal with the bad ones and don't add regulation to the rest.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

I think sledding has gotten safer

[Wildbill]

I think sledding has gotten safer

For this year anyway but we credit hockey for that Sorry Buns could not help myself.

I believe that I have to agree with you on this for several reasons

1 less sleds from a high of 120,000 sleds on the trail to todays numbers of around 80,000

2 todays sleds turn making them less likely to be cast onto the other side. Just try taking an older sled for a ride the ride and handling that was cutting edge then is incredibly poor by todays standards ie a formula plus versus a Xp

3 We are aging and most of us have scared ourselves more than once

4 Less drinking and driving it used to be that sledders looked for the bar now they want Timmies for coffee !

[cehyoopers]

I think sledding has gotten safer

For this year anyway but we credit hockey for that Sorry Buns could not help myself.

I believe that I have to agree with you on this for several reasons

1 less sleds from a high of 120,000 sleds on the trail to todays numbers of around 80,000

2 todays sleds turn making them less likely to be cast onto the other side. Just try taking an older sled for a ride the ride and handling that was cutting edge then is incredibly poor by todays standards ie a formula plus versus a Xp

3 We are aging and most of us have scared ourselves more than once

4 Less drinking and driving it used to be that sledders looked for the bar now they want Timmies for coffee !

a bit conservative on number 3,, J/K

number 4 should spark some PC reponses,,,,, I agree,most won't,with the "less" statement,for people that think all the anti-drinking ads work,I ask you to walk along a road,and look in the ditch,,,,it will surprise you at what you find.Even along the trail I find the odd empty,,,, Liquid courage,the worst kind.

[revrnd]

Just try taking an older sled for a ride the ride and handling that was cutting edge then is incredibly poor by todays standards ie a formula plus versus a Xp

IMO the early REVs w/ Precision skis are an exception to this point. Ill handling personified. I asked this question to owners of more than 1 REV especially both early & late versions. Folks that had ridden both said they preferred the '06 & newer versions.

What prompted me to ask the question was I met 2 early REVs a couple years ago on a forest access road. They weren't travelling fast, but it appeared from their ski marks that they weren't handling all that well. I think a lot of this translated into the "idgits cutting corners" complaints when the REV 1st came out. Combine the lousy front suspension calibration (correctin model year 2) w/ the Precisions had you had a recipe for lousy handling. People who weren't prepared to make adjustments to their sleds to improve the handling compensated by cutting the corners to stay on the trail.

Finally, yes the OFSC can say that only a small % of the fatalities occur on the trails, but that doesn't take into the close calls that easily could've been accidents. From the accident reports so far this season. I don't think any of the fatals took place on the trails.

[mxz800]

Just try taking an older sled for a ride the ride and handling that was cutting edge then is incredibly poor by todays standards ie a formula plus versus a Xp

IMO the early REVs w/ Precision skis are an exception to this point. Ill handling personified. I asked this question to owners of more than 1 REV especially both early & late versions. Folks that had ridden both said they preferred the '06 & newer versions.

What prompted me to ask the question was I met 2 early REVs a couple years ago on a forest access road. They weren't travelling fast, but it appeared from their ski marks that they weren't handling all that well. I think a lot of this translated into the "idgits cutting corners" complaints when the REV 1st came out. Combine the lousy front suspension calibration (correctin model year 2) w/ the Precisions had you had a recipe for lousy handling. People who weren't prepared to make adjustments to their sleds to improve the handling compensated by cutting the corners to stay on the trail.

Finally, yes the OFSC can say that only a small % of the fatalities occur on the trails, but that doesn't take into the close calls that easily could've been accidents. From the accident reports so far this season. I don't think any of the fatals took place on the trails.

i agree that some of the close calls happen in corners but if everyone took a little time to think about what they are doing reguardless if they are speeding or driving like a old man and stopped taking there half of the trail by starting off by driving in the middle ....stay on your own side of the trail also when you stop get your sleds off the trails or stop in a safe place where other sledders can see you amd have plenty of time to react in a safe manner...every year i come around a blind corner or over a hill and there are sleds and drivers standing in the middle of the trails acting like the on-coming sleds are in the wrong.