Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now? I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members. I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees ! It doesn't, hence the mention of those posting about a CEO not knowing how the OFSC works, even after it's been explained umpteen times over. Once more, in laymans terms from the top of the food chain ... Permit buyers (option to participate in running org by becoming club members, and can do as little going to one meeting a year .... club exec elections) Club members ... over see and elect club exec .. Club exec ... over see and elect dist gov .. Dist board of govs ... over see and elect commitees and hire and fire paid OFSC staff .. As for educating with what I know, I pretty well covered it all already in a bunch of posts ... and all it ever comes back to is, is me waving the volunteer flag ..... hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke: I never said the Volunteer President does not know how the OFSC works, I suggested he is not a business executive and therefore is not likely to run the OFSC like a business, which it ultimately is and should be. The United way, in example, is run by a Board of Directors and a CEO that are PAID! There are thousands of volunteers that help the United Way run its daily operations. That's what volunteers do, help operate, not run. Us mere layman can't possible understand how such a large organization runs..... Since every permit holder has a vote, then let them vote for executive positions. Not this parliamentary crap that happens in Canada. A good old all in vote! Like in the U.S.A.! hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke: Exactly! I didn't mean the prez not knowing, I meant those talking about hiring a big dollar CEO .. As for permit buyers voting ... read my laymans terms again .... And United way ..... this is the exact reason I and many others no longer give to the United Way, and why their revenues are down huge. I like many others give to grass roots charities where a much higer amount goes directly to the people in need, rather then to paying for someones golf and steak dinners with corp donators, that I and the recipiants of the charity have no say in justifying it what so ever. The OFSC should not be a grassroots organisation. Says who ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 isn't it awesome we have an org were anyone can have their say in how they think it is to be run, just as I did, with just a little effort. What steps does one have to take to form a proposal for the OFSC? I have helped with planning for other committees and it usually goes something like this: [*:hslj156m]Raise the idea on an internet forum[*:hslj156m]Discuss the merits and faults of the idea[*:hslj156m]Discuss ways to improve on the original idea[*:hslj156m]Garner support from other members[*:hslj156m]The member with the resources to put the plan in motion does so Not to knock anyone, but with the OFSC, planning it seems to go more like this: [*:hslj156m]Raise the idea on an internet forum[*:hslj156m]Explanation is given that the OFSC does it this way You have to understand that it is a completely foreign concept to me that one would draft a proposal like your $2.50 fee one without consulting the vast knowledge of the internet. (If I somehow missed your original post on the topic, I apologize) I am in no way suggesting that there is anything wrong with your method, but it would never work for me. As such, the constant rejection of ideas on this forum leads me to believe that nobody has any say except those who are well connected in the OFSC community like yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 the recipiants of the charity have no say in justifying it what so ever. Starting to feel that with the OFSC...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Cool you guys have this all figured out ....... see ya's at AGM next year when you propose this. But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther, because judging by your posts none of you have any idea at all. Or do you figure you have it all worked out to take the lead in reorganizing a $22. mil a year organization (really a $220 mil a year org if you take out the volunteer aspect) that you feel needs reorganizing Best day of OFSC posts on OC to date Its cute that you think we are all dumb. I have managed millions of dollars and have been tasked with saving hundreds of thousands within a large corporation. I could point out the results of my involvement in over 2000 places in Canada. This is not rocket science to anyone that is educated and experienced in business management. $22m is peanuts actually. It has been proven time and time again that clubs that are failing financially can be brought back to life by a new business minded executive (Volunteer). There is no place for the old boys club in a $22m enterprise. Nutter, you are fortunate to be a part of a great club. Keep up the great work. The OFSC could be improved. That's not to say they are doing a bad job, however they could do a better job and snowmobiling in Ontario could grow. There are likely some very intelligent business people that have retired that might volunteer to lead the OFSC. However, the President of the OFSC is elected and it is therefore a popularity contest, not a selection based on qualifications. I for one would certainly not recommend the employees select the next CEO of any Corporation. There are many educated business people providing input here. Unfortunately they do not have the time to go to an AGM, but are willing to contribute in other ways. I'm starting to understand why we have trouble getting people involved.... Wrong, the presidential position of the OFSC is nominated and elected by 17 Dist Gov's based on qualificatoins to be the head spokesman of the org, and to help steer the board of Govs. Those 17 Gov's are nominated and elected by clubs exec within each of their districts. Those club exec are nominated and elected by their permit buyers who choose to be club members who choose to take part of voting in those elections. No need to go to AGM, anything can be proposed through a local club meeting and carried forward by the club .... (can even be through one single meeting). Seems to be the same as most private and public corps ... just with volunteers ? A private corporation has a owners, the owners may choose to run the organization and select someone to do it for them. Often the owner of a business know his product but not how to run the business or market it. Starting to see where this is going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The OFSC should not be a grassroots organisation. Says who ? Why should any 22 million dollar a year (or 220 million like you say, although th enumbers keep rising) be run as a grassroots organisation? Its ridiculous. We are facilitating a vast and different trail system that is paid for by the permit holders and canadian tax dollars. I dont get why your so opposed to the fact that people should get paid for the work they do and as such significantly raise income directly attributable to the sport of snowmobiling. Its obtuse and antiquated and extremly short sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wrong, the presidential position of the OFSC is nominated and elected by 17 Dist Gov's based on qualificatoins to be the head spokesman of the org, and to help steer the board of Govs. Those 17 Gov's are nominated and elected by clubs exec within each of their districts. Those club exec are nominated and elected by their permit buyers who choose to be club members who choose to take part of voting in those elections. Anytime there is an elective process its based upon popularity. Wherther overt or with behind the scenes politics. I liken it to any sport that is judged. Its impossible to be 100% sure of the outcome because the outcome is based on different human beings judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 isn't it awesome we have an org were anyone can have their say in how they think it is to be run, just as I did, with just a little effort. What steps does one have to take to form a proposal for the OFSC? I have helped with planning for other committees and it usually goes something like this: [*:1nb57who]Raise the idea on an internet forum[*:1nb57who]Discuss the merits and faults of the idea[*:1nb57who]Discuss ways to improve on the original idea[*:1nb57who]Garner support from other members[*:1nb57who]The member with the resources to put the plan in motion does so Not to knock anyone, but with the OFSC, planning it seems to go more like this: [*:1nb57who]Raise the idea on an internet forum[*:1nb57who]Explanation is given that the OFSC does it this way You have to understand that it is a completely foreign concept to me that one would draft a proposal like your $2.50 fee one without consulting the vast knowledge of the internet. (If I somehow missed your original post on the topic, I apologize) I am in no way suggesting that there is anything wrong with your method, but it would never work for me. As such, the constant rejection of ideas on this forum leads me to believe that nobody has any say except those who are well connected in the OFSC community like yourself. Write it up and bring it to a club meeting ..... Doesn't seem too well connected to me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 the recipiants of the charity have no say in justifying it what so ever. Starting to feel that with the OFSC...... See my previous post, and tell me how you yourself or anyone has no say .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 The OFSC should not be a grassroots organisation. Says who ? Why should any 22 million dollar a year (or 220 million like you say, although th enumbers keep rising) be run as a grassroots organisation? Its ridiculous. We are facilitating a vast and different trail system that is paid for by the permit holders and canadian tax dollars. I dont get why your so opposed to the fact that people should get paid for the work they do and as such significantly raise income directly attributable to the sport of snowmobiling. Its obtuse and antiquated and extremly short sighted. Your opinion ... Take out the volunteer labor, donated land use and donated material resources and give me a number ... personally I think I'm being overly generous when I say 10x the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Wrong, the presidential position of the OFSC is nominated and elected by 17 Dist Gov's based on qualificatoins to be the head spokesman of the org, and to help steer the board of Govs. Those 17 Gov's are nominated and elected by clubs exec within each of their districts. Those club exec are nominated and elected by their permit buyers who choose to be club members who choose to take part of voting in those elections. Anytime there is an elective process its based upon popularity. Wherther overt or with behind the scenes politics. I liken it to any sport that is judged. Its impossible to be 100% sure of the outcome because the outcome is based on different human beings judgement. And this doesn't happen in the private for proffit sector with a controlling board ? .... The private for proffit sector is driven by greed and only greed, which controls the out come who runs the company, where as the none proffit sector is driven by pride and enjoyment in what is accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Write it up and bring it to a club meeting ..... That is step 5 of my list of steps. But how does one get to step 5? Domino's paid CEO idea is a nice example. I know you think it is a bad idea, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But he presented real numbers revealing how it would be beneficial. According to you, they were wrong. But if the numbers were wrong, he needs to know what the correct figures are to make the necessary adjustments to his proposal. You referred to this earlier as the research phase. Unfortunately the idea has just been shot down as a bad one with no information given to help retool it into a solution everyone can be happy with. While you may be correct in saying that anyone can bring any crackpot idea to a club meeting, it seems that very few people have access to the information necessary to form a complete proposal. This prevents those who are not very well connected to the organization from presenting real ideas. Where does someone like Domino go to complete the research on his proposal if not websites like this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 Write it up and bring it to a club meeting ..... That is step 5 of my list of steps. But how does one get to step 5? Domino's paid CEO idea is a nice example. I know you think it is a bad idea, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But he presented real numbers revealing how it would be beneficial. If the numbers were wrong, he needs to know that now, not when he presents it in front of his club. You referred to this earlier as the research phase. Unfortunately the idea has just been shot down as a bad one with no information given to help retool it into a solution everyone can be happy with. While you may be correct in saying that anyone can bring any crackpot idea to a club meeting, it seems that very few people have access to the information necessary to form complete solution proposals. This prevents those who are not very well connected to the organization from presenting real ideas. Why is that step 5 ? ..... research it and right it up, or don't research. I have no idea how is this any different then in the private sector or with any CEO run co, you still have to do research either way, and pass it through to the membership for vote ? Which I might add is much easier done through the OFSC due to full transperancey, for anyone wishing to to take the time to research something to help better the org, where as in the private CEO board run sector there are many rights of disclosure clauses. BTW .. I fail to see any numbers that Dom posted that showed me that a high paid controlling CEO would be any benifit to the OFSC ? All Dom has to do is start putting his proposal together .... for research all he has to obtain a membership with a club (some clubs are free, some clubs charge $5-$10 to cover mail outs), then ask a dist Gov to call the OFSC admin in Barrie and ok staff to put time in helping him, then when he's completed his proposal to his liking he can then move it forward on his own, or submit it to a club for them to move forward with it if they agree with it, if not he has to move it forward on his own by submitting it the BOG on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Nutter...just curious as to your seemingly knowledgeable base of the OFSC. How long have you been involved and what positions have you held? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cehyoopers Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Nutter...just curious as to your seemingly knowledgeable base of the OFSC. How long have you been involved and what positions have you held? having read through this thread,some of it a bit confusing.Never have met nutter before,I will say I do not think playing the mine is bigger then yours game is fair.I have over 40 years of snowmobiling in On,bought permits from the OTBA and the OSFC back in the day.Most people have no idea where the sport came from,,,,,,that is good,,,I remember Peggy Brown and Ross Edmonston at a meeting in Bradford trying to decide on OTBA or OSFC for the new province wide name,,,,Pickeral lake was a private pay as you go club,,,,the MOT groomed trails.But I know nothing about how this org works.But what I can tell you without volunteers it is GONE. this is a sport that has to change were it is going,not where it has been,,,,,the United Way is charity,,,,,OSFC is not,,,http://www2.unitedway.ca/UWCanada/faq.aspx?id=98how the ***9 can the 2 be compared,,other then complete opposites.GM,Chryler,US banks,Fanny mae,Freddy mac,and the list goes on,,,,were ALL run by paid CEO's.Look would happened there. Dylan said it best,,,,for times there are a changin'. and as my old chum Larry Hunter(rip) used say,"what do I know?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Write it up and bring it to a club meeting ..... That is step 5 of my list of steps. But how does one get to step 5? Domino's paid CEO idea is a nice example. I know you think it is a bad idea, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But he presented real numbers revealing how it would be beneficial. If the numbers were wrong, he needs to know that now, not when he presents it in front of his club. You referred to this earlier as the research phase. Unfortunately the idea has just been shot down as a bad one with no information given to help retool it into a solution everyone can be happy with. While you may be correct in saying that anyone can bring any crackpot idea to a club meeting, it seems that very few people have access to the information necessary to form complete solution proposals. This prevents those who are not very well connected to the organization from presenting real ideas. Why is that step 5 ? ..... research it and right it up, or don't research. I have no idea how is this any different then in the private sector or with any CEO run co, you still have to do research either way, and pass it through to the membership for vote ? Which I might add is much easier done through the OFSC due to full transperancey, for anyone wishing to to take the time to research something to help better the org, where as in the private CEO board run sector there are many rights of disclosure clauses. BTW .. I fail to see any numbers that Dom posted that showed me that a high paid controlling CEO would be any benifit to the OFSC ? All Dom has to do is start putting his proposal together .... for research all he has to obtain a membership with a club (some clubs are free, some clubs charge $5-$10 to cover mail outs), then ask a dist Gov to call the OFSC admin in Barrie and ok staff to put time in helping him, then when he's completed his proposal to his liking he can then move it forward on his own, or submit it to a club for them to move forward with it if they agree with it, if not he has to move it forward on his own by submitting it the BOG on his own. Dom's already a member of a club and an active Volunteer. He was out brushing trail last weekend; he has completely modernized/revamped his club's website; has worked on his club's communications; attends club meetings; brushed trail last fall............ .............. I hear he is quite active with his club. (Surprised the Bunny hasn't kicked him in the nuts :P ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Nutter...just curious as to your seemingly knowledgeable base of the OFSC. How long have you been involved and what positions have you held? Permit buyer and part time rider from 1984 to present, club member and spuratic volunteer with Kawartha Lakes SC from 1988 to 1990 (then became a long haul trucker till 2001 so I barely had time to ride). Joined PPSC in 01 and was nominated for the exec position of club promotions and events in 02, and accepted after unanamous vote (cause no one else was there to do it) I still hold that position. In 2007 I was nominated to President of (CORSA) Central Ontario Regional Snowmobile Association (now just a sleepy little 5 club think tank, no shared grooming, or permits or anything like that, just 5 clubs that help each other once in a while and meet a 5 times a year to discuss western District 3 issues and concerns), accepted and still hold that position today. Also trail brusher, groomer op and trail patrol ..... Basically the positions I hold are my hobby, a hobby I love to do. Dom's already a member of a club and an active Volunteer. He was out brushing trail last weekend; he has redesigned his club's website; has worked on his club's communications; attends club meetings; brushed trail last fall............ Awesome I don't get why he asks all these questions then, as I'd imagine he's smart guy and would know how the OFSC is run (chain of comand wise) and would know what it takes to propose a motion ? ...... same as proposing one at any club meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 The volunteers each and everyone, be it the person who sells permits, the person out brushing a trail, or anyone who gives of their time is appreciated for the great job they do. Business accumen in the most senior leadership however can make the difference between the flourishing, survival or demise of an organization. Not withstanding the current woes of the automotive industry Chrysler years ago was on the brink of extinction. Along came a new leader (Lee Iacocca) and turned them into a very profitable organization. GE also on the brink of collapse. Massive turn around to become one of the more prosperous corporate giants. All due to leadership and a recharged approach. Too often organizations get stuck in a paradigm of this is the way something should be done simply because of that is they way it has always been done. That coupled with a comfort factor. People by nature are resistant to change. Especially in the way they do things. Sometimes a bit of a shake up from someone with a new perspective works wonders. I am in no way suggesting that those doing the various jobs are doing a bad job and that they are not valued. Someitmes new energy can bring new life to a group. When I look at the energy our own Paul Inneson has brought to Baxter it is refreshing. Not sure where he gets the energy from but it is admirable. In the corporate world 22 million is chump change but at the same time warrants the best we can find to do the job, whether that be a volunteer or a paid leader. Perhaps we already have the best for what we want and need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't get why he asks all these questions then With all due respect, I believe it has been explained on several occasions why one would turn to the internet for questions and opinions about an idea. That is, after all, what this entire discussion has been about. It is a simple matter of scale. There is not a single club in the OFSC that I am aware of that regularly brings out thousands of people from all over the province. Therefore, there is not a single club that has the planning resources that a simple website already provides to every single snowmobiler in this province. Domino is a smart guy. He is smart enough to realize that his idea is based on his point of view alone. He realizes that in order to make his idea worthy of submission to the powers that be, it requires input and modification from people all over the province who each have talents in a wide range of specialities. You may argue that this discussion can still happen at club meetings. I disagree. Does a club in D5 really understand the needs of a club in D17? There most certainly is some overlap, but as a general rule, no, they don't. The terrain is different, the population density is different, the infrastructure is different, the technology is different, etc. What if this forum had a retired CEO who has decided he would like to do the job, but as a volunteer. Domino could quickly modify his proposal based on this new information before presenting it to the club. Without him asking questions, he would have never been able to make the necessary changes and his idea likely would have been struck down. His new plan may come with merit. We already heard of one story of someone writing a proposal that was ultimately struck down. Imagine if that person had let the people of this forum help with the idea. With some slight modifications based on the collaborative efforts of many, it may very well have made it through. I believe the question you should be asking yourself is "why doesn't every club member voice their ideas on an internet forum before proceeding any further?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't get why he asks all these questions then With all due respect, I believe it has been explained on several occasions why one would turn to the internet for questions and opinions about an idea. That is, after all, what this entire discussion has been about. It is a simple matter of scale. There is not a single club in the OFSC that I am aware of that regularly brings out thousands of people from all over the province. Therefore, there is not a single club that has the planning resources that a simple website already provides to every single snowmobiler in this province. Domino is a smart guy. He is smart enough to realize that his idea is based on his point of view alone. He realizes that in order to make his idea worthy of submission to the powers that be, it requires input and modification from people all over the province who each have talents in a wide range of specialities. You may argue that this discussion can still happen at club meetings. I disagree. Does a club in D5 really understand the needs of a club in D17? There most certainly is some overlap, but as a general rule, no, they don't. The terrain is different, the population density is different, the infrastructure is different, the technology is different, etc. What if this forum had a retired CEO who has decided he would like to do the job, but as a volunteer. Domino could quickly modify his proposal based on this new information before presenting it to the club. Without him asking questions, he would have never been able to make the necessary changes and his idea likely would have been struck down. His new plan may come with merit. We already heard of one story of someone writing a proposal that was ultimately struck down. Imagine if that person had let the people of this forum help with the idea. With some slight modifications based on the collaborative efforts of many, it may very well have made it through. I believe the question you should be asking yourself is "why doesn't every club member voice their ideas on an internet forum before proceeding any further?" I already know the answer to that question, because many don't have the time or want to sit on an internet forum. Clubs are a lot more connected to each other then you think Ski, this is what the various provincial commitee meetings are for, how often they annually meet depends on the commitee, along with those we have our annual provincial AGM once a year. These meetings are where we voice our local concerns and where hear others local concerns, and work together in solving issues and helping each other, through our commitee members. I condsider our club to be "young" thinking, and even with our club having it's own forum site, we still only see about 50% of the exc and maybe 10% of our membership using it as a tool, and trustt me we promote it's use. An internet discussion forumm is a great place to share information about certain things, but it will never replace face to face discussions where emotion along with facial and body expressions are half the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I don't get why he asks all these questions then With all due respect, I believe it has been explained on several occasions why one would turn to the internet for questions and opinions about an idea. That is, after all, what this entire discussion has been about. It is a simple matter of scale. There is not a single club in the OFSC that I am aware of that regularly brings out thousands of people from all over the province. Therefore, there is not a single club that has the planning resources that a simple website already provides to every single snowmobiler in this province. Domino is a smart guy. He is smart enough to realize that his idea is based on his point of view alone. He realizes that in order to make his idea worthy of submission to the powers that be, it requires input and modification from people all over the province who each have talents in a wide range of specialities. You may argue that this discussion can still happen at club meetings. I disagree. Does a club in D5 really understand the needs of a club in D17? There most certainly is some overlap, but as a general rule, no, they don't. The terrain is different, the population density is different, the infrastructure is different, the technology is different, etc. What if this forum had a retired CEO who has decided he would like to do the job, but as a volunteer. Domino could quickly modify his proposal based on this new information before presenting it to the club. Without him asking questions, he would have never been able to make the necessary changes and his idea likely would have been struck down. His new plan may come with merit. We already heard of one story of someone writing a proposal that was ultimately struck down. Imagine if that person had let the people of this forum help with the idea. With some slight modifications based on the collaborative efforts of many, it may very well have made it through. I believe the question you should be asking yourself is "why doesn't every club member voice their ideas on an internet forum before proceeding any further?" I already know the answer to that question, because many don't have the time or want to sit on an internet forum. Clubs are a lot more connected to each other then you think Ski, this is what the various provincial commitee meetings are for, how often they annually meet depends on the commitee, along with those we have our annual provincial AGM once a year. These meetings are where we voice our local concerns and where hear others local concerns, and work together in solving issues and helping each other, through our commitee members. I condsider our club to be "young" thinking, and even with our club having it's own forum site, we still only see about 50% of the exc and maybe 10% of our membership using it as a tool, and trustt me we promote it's use. An internet discussion forumm is a great place to share information about certain things, but it will never replace face to face discussions where emotion along with facial and body expressions are half the language. Your missing out on the majority of sledders who do not have the time to attend club meeting's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatboyC Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just bough my vehicle licence plate renewal sticker online. No fees so its the same price as going to the licence bureau in person. I realize there's just a bit more vehicle on the road then sleds on the trails but if this catches on and online sales increase perhaps one day they'll remove the 10$ fee... For me the time I would save doing it online is worth allot more then 10$. So no complaints here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 I don't get why he asks all these questions then With all due respect, I believe it has been explained on several occasions why one would turn to the internet for questions and opinions about an idea. That is, after all, what this entire discussion has been about. It is a simple matter of scale. There is not a single club in the OFSC that I am aware of that regularly brings out thousands of people from all over the province. Therefore, there is not a single club that has the planning resources that a simple website already provides to every single snowmobiler in this province. Domino is a smart guy. He is smart enough to realize that his idea is based on his point of view alone. He realizes that in order to make his idea worthy of submission to the powers that be, it requires input and modification from people all over the province who each have talents in a wide range of specialities. You may argue that this discussion can still happen at club meetings. I disagree. Does a club in D5 really understand the needs of a club in D17? There most certainly is some overlap, but as a general rule, no, they don't. The terrain is different, the population density is different, the infrastructure is different, the technology is different, etc. What if this forum had a retired CEO who has decided he would like to do the job, but as a volunteer. Domino could quickly modify his proposal based on this new information before presenting it to the club. Without him asking questions, he would have never been able to make the necessary changes and his idea likely would have been struck down. His new plan may come with merit. We already heard of one story of someone writing a proposal that was ultimately struck down. Imagine if that person had let the people of this forum help with the idea. With some slight modifications based on the collaborative efforts of many, it may very well have made it through. I believe the question you should be asking yourself is "why doesn't every club member voice their ideas on an internet forum before proceeding any further?" I already know the answer to that question, because many don't have the time or want to sit on an internet forum. Clubs are a lot more connected to each other then you think Ski, this is what the various provincial commitee meetings are for, how often they annually meet depends on the commitee, along with those we have our annual provincial AGM once a year. These meetings are where we voice our local concerns and where hear others local concerns, and work together in solving issues and helping each other, through our commitee members. I condsider our club to be "young" thinking, and even with our club having it's own forum site, we still only see about 50% of the exc and maybe 10% of our membership using it as a tool, and trustt me we promote it's use. An internet discussion forumm is a great place to share information about certain things, but it will never replace face to face discussions where emotion along with facial and body expressions are half the language. Your missing out on the majority of sledders who do not have the time to attend club meeting's. I would love to attend our club's meetings but they are usually held on a Monday night, and even tough I am a shift worker, that day just does not work out, ever. Or so it seems. I have asked for the minutes to be posted on the website to assist in keeping up to date, but the club says that would discourage people from attending meetings if they could read about club goings on via the internet. How do you win here? Seems like they want to keep anybody but the locals from attending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I would love to attend our club's meetings but they are usually held on a Monday night, and even tough I am a shift worker, that day just does not work out, ever. Or so it seems. I have asked for the minutes to be posted on the website to assist in keeping up to date, but the club says that would discourage people from attending meetings if they could read about club goings on via the internet. How do you win here? Seems like they want to keep anybody but the locals from attending. That seems to be the case for so many situations in "cottage country". Georgian Bay Township had meetings about the future of Port Severn master plan and held them all but the first and the last on weekdays excluding everyone but the locals or retirees. If they truly want to include and entice participation for a snowmobile club hold the meetings at a time when the people who do not live local can make it. I know our AGM for our club is on a weekend but I have no idea if there are other meetings and when they are. I don't even see them published anywhere or the minutes. It would be great to know what is going on behind the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I would love to attend our club's meetings but they are usually held on a Monday night, and even tough I am a shift worker, that day just does not work out, ever. Or so it seems. I have asked for the minutes to be posted on the website to assist in keeping up to date, but the club says that would discourage people from attending meetings if they could read about club goings on via the internet. How do you win here? Seems like they want to keep anybody but the locals from attending. That seems to be the case for so many situations in "cottage country". Georgian Bay Township had meetings about the future of Port Severn master plan and held them all but the first and the last on weekdays excluding everyone but the locals or retirees. If they truly want to include and entice participation for a snowmobile club hold the meetings at a time when the people who do not live local can make it. I know our AGM for our club is on a weekend but I have no idea if there are other meetings and when they are. I don't even see them published anywhere or the minutes. It would be great to know what is going on behind the scene. Really tough call to what it right and what is wrong and what works for all. Our club used to stay stead fast with Sunday morning meetings at 9:30 am, the first Sunday of the month year round, as people would complain if we didn't .... and low and behold every meeting was the same thing, only the club exc and a couple dedicated members would be present ..... and a handfull would only come when it was conveniant for them, not showing the same comitment as the club exec and a couple dedicated members, which really isn't fare. So now once the trails are open a vote is taken each meeting as to when we want to next meet, and since we all would like to ride on the weekends, it usually ends up being a week night. We still do all our off season meetings on Sundays, but we all know that except for the most dedicated sled heads, sledding isn't even on the radar till the first snow stays on the ground and the trails open, but we still do it in hopes that more may come out. I know of a few clubs that tried electonic meetings and they had even a worse turn out ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I would love to attend our club's meetings but they are usually held on a Monday night, and even tough I am a shift worker, that day just does not work out, ever. Or so it seems. I have asked for the minutes to be posted on the website to assist in keeping up to date, but the club says that would discourage people from attending meetings if they could read about club goings on via the internet. How do you win here? Seems like they want to keep anybody but the locals from attending. That seems to be the case for so many situations in "cottage country". Georgian Bay Township had meetings about the future of Port Severn master plan and held them all but the first and the last on weekdays excluding everyone but the locals or retirees. If they truly want to include and entice participation for a snowmobile club hold the meetings at a time when the people who do not live local can make it. I know our AGM for our club is on a weekend but I have no idea if there are other meetings and when they are. I don't even see them published anywhere or the minutes. It would be great to know what is going on behind the scene. Really tough call to what it right and what is wrong and what works for all. Our club used to stay stead fast with Sunday morning meetings at 9:30 am, the first Sunday of the month year round, as people would complain if we didn't .... and low and behold every meeting was the same thing, only the club exc and a couple dedicated members would be present ..... and a handfull would only come when it was conveniant for them, not showing the same comitment as the club exec and a couple dedicated members, which really isn't fare. So now once the trails are open a vote is taken each meeting as to when we want to next meet, and since we all would like to ride on the weekends, it usually ends up being a week night. We still do all our off season meetings on Sundays, but we all know that except for the most dedicted of volunteers, sledding isn't even on the radar till the first snow stays on the ground and the trails open. I know of a few clubs that tried electonic meetings and they had even a worse turn out ... Our AGM switched to a weekend to give more opportunity for out of towners to attend. The regular monthly meetings have remained a weeknight. What would be nice is to figure out a way to get the minutes of the regular meeting into club members' hands who did not attend. Posting on a public website is inappropriate and nobody wants to spend the postage every month sending to that many permit holders ( a significant number of which don't want to receive the minutes). But for those who couldn't attend but would like to receive minutes, any suggestions from the readers here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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