Fred Quimby Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage.They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage.They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. Ah yes, but the OFSC is merely volunteers and we cannot be critical in anyway or give advise, because again, they are only volunteers. :poke: You have to know that the OFSC is not taking a cent away from the trails and therefore making those who choose the convenience of online purchasing to pay the transaction fee, credit cards fees, shipping fees etc. That's the $10/$2. I will assume that the $2 is the transactional portion of the fee. I am not here to defend, but to educate. For the record, I disagree with the fee as I believe the online permit purchase could be so much more without a fee. Considering that this "highly secured" website is all due to the MTO, it is interesting that I can get my MTO license renewal sticker online with no additional fees. So as much as I believe in the online world, in this case, go visit your club office, or a local business that supports Snowmobiling and sells permits. I am sure they would love a visit for a snowmobiler, well unless you're a pink grumpy bunny sledder who would kick you in the nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. These fee's are set by a contracted furnishing house, that handles all the logistics that go with the transaction of online sales (collection of funds, mailing, and securing and insuring the transaction, and I'm sure there's more to it that I am missing ). Two years ago the OFSC membership voted in majority for the OFSC to look into online sales through a commitee study and report back with results, last year at AGM they did, and through the information given from the study results and the commitee recomendation, the OFSC members voted in majority that the OFSC go ahead with providing a central online permit sales program, but at the same voiced their opinion they did not want to see any exsisting funding go to funding it, as the majority feels we need all the funds we already have to maintain what we have. (and in some cases to bring back funds that some clubs were previously using to do their own online sales). Basically as asked by it's membership the OFSC put out to tennor what we needed to see done, a self supported safe secure way for people to purchass permits online, that is approved by the MTO, that doesn't tap into exsiting operational funds. As said don't want to pay the fee's go one of the other routes, phone, mail or in person purchass. The online sytem wasn't created to replace these methods, it was created to cater to those who asked for it, and so they shall pay extra to have it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. These fee's are set by a contracted furnishing house, that handles all the logistics that go with the transaction of online sales (collection of funds, mailing, and securing and insuring the transaction, and I'm sure there's more to it that I am missing ). Two years ago the OFSC membership voted in majority for the OFSC to look into online sales through a commitee study and report back with results, last year at AGM they did, and through the information given from the study results and the commitee recomendation, the OFSC members voted in majority that the OFSC go ahead with providing a central online permit sales program, but at the same voiced their opinion they did not want to see any exsisting funding go to funding it, as the majority feels we need all the funds we already have to maintain what we have. (and in some cases to bring back funds that some clubs were previously using to do their own online sales). Basically as asked by it's membership the OFSC put out to tennor what we needed to see done, a self supported safe secure way for people to purchass permits online, that is approved by the MTO, that doesn't tap into exsiting operational funds. As said don't want to pay the fee's go one of the other routes, phone, mail or in person purchass. The online sytem wasn't created to replace these methods, it was created to cater to those who asked for it, and so they shall pay extra to have it .... Sounds similar to my recent experience when ordering the "free Windows 7 upgrade" from Toshiba. They want $19.95 to cover handling, shipping etc. Apparently one of the very few who are charging for this. I also ordered the same "free" Windows 7 upgrade for my Gateway laptop and it is being supplied at no charge.... the way it was promised when I purchased it. Called Toshiba and they basically told me Sorry that's the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage.They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. These fee's are set by a contracted furnishing house, that handles all the logistics that go with the transaction of online sales (collection of funds, mailing, and securing and insuring the transaction, and I'm sure there's more to it that I am missing ). Two years ago the OFSC membership voted in majority for the OFSC to look into online sales through a commitee study and report back with results, last year at AGM they did, and through the information given from the study results and the commitee recomendation, the OFSC members voted in majority that the OFSC go ahead with providing a central online permit sales program, but at the same voiced their opinion they did not want to see any exsisting funding go to funding it, as the majority feels we need all the funds we already have to maintain what we have. (and in some cases to bring back funds that some clubs were previously using to do their own online sales). Basically as asked by it's membership the OFSC put out to tennor what we needed to see done, a self supported safe secure way for people to purchass permits online, that is approved by the MTO, that doesn't tap into exsiting operational funds. As said don't want to pay the fee's go one of the other routes, phone, mail or in person purchass. The online sytem wasn't created to replace these methods, it was created to cater to those who asked for it, and so they shall pay extra to have it .... Just a thought (Don't take away my Bananas please), but the people who have a vote on this are biased. I say this because it is likely that not one of them would be interested in purchasing online. Club volunteers generally get them in person, or call the club and have them mailed. And another thought now that I typed that one, it would likely be the people who do not volunteer that will use the online systems, so maybe the fee does not matter. I personally have purchased my permits at the show and directed the funding to the clubs I did ride in the most the previous year, or expected to ride in that season. However, last year I noticed that when I stated my club to the attending volunteer, the district was written on the form, not the club. This year I have decided to have a more direct approach with the club to buy my permits and ensure that my permit is counted for that club. If not for the online fees, I would have likely tried that route, but I will just call the club office and buy them that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I am thrilled to be able to purchase my sled pass on line. I am not thrilled at the $10.00 administration fee on the first permit and the additional $2.00 fee for the other subsequent permits. That feels a little like gouging. Think I will be buying my pass next trip up north to the cottage. They say "registered" not courier. So unless there is an error on the website, this cost is very high. Registered mail is not that costly. I beg to differ, have you tried to send something registered these days? It friggin' expensive. ($7.50 extra for registered within Ontario) Okay... I can understand the $10.00 for the transaction and the registered mail fee but what about the extra $2.00 per permit. I am assuming they are in the same envelope and not mailed separately. Also they should be able to leverage off of the MTO for corporate rates on delivery. Our company can send by courier any where in Ontario or Quebec under 10 pounds for $2.10. These fee's are set by a contracted furnishing house, that handles all the logistics that go with the transaction of online sales (collection of funds, mailing, and securing and insuring the transaction, and I'm sure there's more to it that I am missing ). Two years ago the OFSC membership voted in majority for the OFSC to look into online sales through a commitee study and report back with results, last year at AGM they did, and through the information given from the study results and the commitee recomendation, the OFSC members voted in majority that the OFSC go ahead with providing a central online permit sales program, but at the same voiced their opinion they did not want to see any exsisting funding go to funding it, as the majority feels we need all the funds we already have to maintain what we have. (and in some cases to bring back funds that some clubs were previously using to do their own online sales). Basically as asked by it's membership the OFSC put out to tennor what we needed to see done, a self supported safe secure way for people to purchass permits online, that is approved by the MTO, that doesn't tap into exsiting operational funds. As said don't want to pay the fee's go one of the other routes, phone, mail or in person purchass. The online sytem wasn't created to replace these methods, it was created to cater to those who asked for it, and so they shall pay extra to have it .... Sounds like someone is making a profit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I guess I was surprised at the fees. I buy my ATV pass on line and there is no fee to send it to me. It does not come registered but then again, it has never been lost either. Do we need things to come registered? I courier and send registered mail to the U.S. weekly. Those fees are often less than the OFSC' contractor is charging. Buy where it suits you I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I disagree with the fee as I believe the online permit purchase could be so much more without a fee. I am certain the online sales will move to print your own permits someday. That is when the service will become much more. What STOP/police officer doesn't already carry a cell phone with a camera? That is all that is needed to verify that the permit is valid and not a forgery. This would have been a great time to implement it. Was it discussed at least? Do we need things to come registered? Maybe it should be an option? If you choose not to pay the extra fee and it gets lost, it is your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Just a thought (Don't take away my Bananas please), but the people who have a vote on this are biased. I say this because it is likely that not one of them would be interested in purchasing online. Club volunteers generally get them in person, or call the club and have them mailed. And another thought now that I typed that one, it would likely be the people who do not volunteer that will use the online systems, so maybe the fee does not matter. I personally have purchased my permits at the show and directed the funding to the clubs I did ride in the most the previous year, or expected to ride in that season. However, last year I noticed that when I stated my club to the attending volunteer, the district was written on the form, not the club. This year I have decided to have a more direct approach with the club to buy my permits and ensure that my permit is counted for that club. If not for the online fees, I would have likely tried that route, but I will just call the club office and buy them that way. Could very well be Dom .... but we do listen to permit buyers hence the reason there even is online permit buying available. The opinions given on this or any other message board are not the only opinions we hear, we have membership meetings (and many are just that members and not volunteers), club events and trail side, club house, restaurant, sled shop talk where we generally get the pulse of what the permit buyer wants out of the organisation. But I do feel we are biased towards how we run the org, through a biased knowledge of actually doing it, where as 90+% of all permit buyers have no idea what so ever of what it takes logistically and finacially to do so, as shown by many posts on many message boards. Why did you not fill out the club portion yourself while filling out everything else, when buying your permit at the show ? It is the Trails Commitee members who do the selling at the show, and these members are to be the most unbiased members within the OFSC, these people are elected that position because their peers trusted them to think provincial and not just think about their own clubs back yard. Do you have the name of this person who handled your transaction ? .... if you are not mistaken and this was done they definatly should not be on the Trails Commitee certainly do not have the integrity to be in such a position. Did you not even say something when felt you seen this happen ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I disagree with the fee as I believe the online permit purchase could be so much more without a fee. I am certain the online sales will move to print your own permits someday. That is when the service will become much more. What STOP/police officer doesn't already carry a cell phone with a camera? That is all that is needed to verify that the permit is valid and not a forgery. This would have been a great time to implement it. Was it discussed at least? Do we need things to come registered? Maybe it should be an option? If you choose not to pay the extra fee and it gets lost, it is your loss. The decision it is to be delivered by tracable methods is one of the MTO, but a good one as we don't need to tie up any resourses finding out who actually lost a permit in the mai and who is just bucking for a free permit. As for STOP they are their own volunteer program with their own funding, that work with the OFSC and Provincial and municipal police to enforce laws on the trail system. You have to take into count that even with all the enforcement you seen last season they only stopped 22,991 sleds out of the 160,000+ estimated actively registered sleds in the province, 96,000 of which are permitted, and some of those stops were repeat stops of the same sled. STOP does what they can and changes what they can with the resources they have to keep up with the times and current trends. Self printable permits, you'll never see it happen, as there's way too much wiggle room for fraud .... and how many would even want to buy a printer and ink that clould print such a thing not enough for the prorgram to support it's self ? (FYI .... the current permits are printed and handled almost to the same standards as currency, and take into acount that each permit is basically $250.00 bill). Even Canadian tire goes by close to the same standars and their highest denomination in Can -Tire cash is only $1.00 or $2.00. It all boils down to one thing $$, do you want to see a permit cost more so it can cater to specific needs of a few ? or do you want to see a permit at the lowest possible price it can be issued for, that works just fine for all buyers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 But I do feel we are biased towards how we run the org, through a biased knowledge of actually doing it, where as 90+% of all permit buyers have no idea what so ever of what it takes logistically and finacially to do so, as shown by many posts on many message boards. Interestingly, virtually all of the ideas presented on this forum in the past have become reality. It is certain that club planning will happen on the internet in the future. as there's way too much wiggle room for fraud Unless someone leaks your private key, how is fraud possible? It would take thousands of years with current computer technology to create fake permits. Currency is a completely different matter. It is meant to exchange hands. Permits are tied to a single snowmobile which makes authentication much simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Interestingly, virtually all of the ideas presented on this forum in the past have become reality. It is certain that club planning will happen on the internet in the future. Unless someone leaks your private key, how is fraud possible? It would take thousands of years with current computer technology to create fake permits. Currency is a completely different matter. It is meant to exchange hands. Permits are tied to a single snowmobile which makes authentication much simpler. And many more ideas people thought of have never seen the light of day, but the beauty of all is that anyone with any idea has a shot of presenting it to the the org, and sharing in the ya or nay of implmenting it. I donno people print funny money all the time ? Sure the prmit is tied to the sled but doesn't just about everyone here already have a few stories about sleds they have seen each season riding without permits with the current system ? IMO why open up pandoras box and implement something that will cost permit money to implement, and is much less secure then the current system .... especially when how we buy our permits is not the make or break deciding factor in whether someone buys a permit and sleds or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 I donno people print funny money all the time ? The permit printout would contain the information about the snowmobile, owner who printed it out, etc. Encrypted so that nobody can generate a fake. This is where the cell phone comes in. The camera would read the permit to retrieve said information to ensure everything is in good order. Money, on the other hand, are always exact duplicates. There is no way to say "Nutter owns this dollar. It is not valid when used by anyone else." due to the nature of how we exchange the currency. IMO why open up pandoras box and implement something that will cost permit money to implement, and is much less secure then the current system There could be a lot of benefits to the system. Volunteer administration time related to permits drops to near zero. It opens up a whole new permit sales options which might actually lead to more permits sold. There is no cost of printing permits for the clubs. The list goes on and on. I am not suggesting that it is a good idea, or that it needs to happen. But I think it is definitely worth discussing. It does not harm the system in any way and our discussion could eventually lead to another idea that is a perfect fit for the OFSC. If we refrain from discussing matters like this, the good ideas are never communicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 But I do feel we are biased towards how we run the org, through a biased knowledge of actually doing it, where as 90+% of all permit buyers have no idea what so ever of what it takes logistically and finacially to do so, as shown by many posts on many message boards. Nutter, This statement is the most dangerous thing you have ever said. Just because your a volunteer you know better? I have a chainsaw so I am the only one qualified to run, have opinions on or guide the future of our 20 million dollar business? This is why I feel that the OFSC should not be run by volunteers. Your attitude that the values and idea's of message posters is not as valuable as those who are volunteers is elitist. Well I think that anyone who buys a permit should have the same say as anyone else. Its called democracy. The holier than thou attitude is what scared and angers me. I hope that the above statement was a miscue but usually they arent. UTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Why did you not fill out the club portion yourself while filling out everything else, when buying your permit at the show ? It is the Trails Commitee members who do the selling at the show, and these members are to be the most unbiased members within the OFSC, these people are elected that position because their peers trusted them to think provincial and not just think about their own clubs back yard. Do you have the name of this person who handled your transaction ? .... if you are not mistaken and this was done they definatly should not be on the Trails Commitee certainly do not have the integrity to be in such a position. Did you not even say something when felt you seen this happen ?? I had filled the form out but had forgotten the Club info, so when asked, I directed it to the club. I watch ed the person put "D7" in the box. I did not understand as much then, but I think I know enough now that I would say something. I was not aware of who manned the booth and I have no idea who the specific person was. I won't make that mistake again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well I think that anyone who buys a permit should have the same say as anyone else. Its called democracy. The OFSC is not a democratic organization, it is a private business. But, like all private businesses, it is the duty of the customers to discuss their ideas and concerns to make the product/service better for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well I think that anyone who buys a permit should have the same say as anyone else. Its called democracy. The OFSC is not a democratic organization, it is a private business. But, like all private businesses, it is the duty of the customers to discuss their ideas and concerns to make the product/service better for everyone. I thought all the 7000 plus volunteers have a vote? And I thought it was a non-profit organisation? Because If its a business it should make money! If all 7000 who run the OFSC, and theoretically it that number could be as many as who volunteer, get a vote well that is a democratic system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 If all 7000 who run the OFSC, and theoretically it that number could be as many as who volunteer, get a vote well that is a democratic system. I assumed you were referring to those who are only permit holders, which is, who I believe Nutter was referring to in his post. My mistake. And yes, it is a non-profit business. That is still a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 But I do feel we are biased towards how we run the org, through a biased knowledge of actually doing it, where as 90+% of all permit buyers have no idea what so ever of what it takes logistically and finacially to do so, as shown by many posts on many message boards. Nutter, This statement is the most dangerous thing you have ever said. Just because your a volunteer you know better? I have a chainsaw so I am the only one qualified to run, have opinions on or guide the future of our 20 million dollar business? This is why I feel that the OFSC should not be run by volunteers. Your attitude that the values and idea's of message posters is not as valuable as those who are volunteers is elitist. Well I think that anyone who buys a permit should have the same say as anyone else. Its called democracy. The holier than thou attitude is what scared and angers me. I hope that the above statement was a miscue but usually they arent. UTS Huh ?? How have I said my opinion more valuble then others, biased possibly yes, but more vauble no .... How can we not be biased by running the org, do you not consider yourself biased at your job or at things you do for recreation, when comparing those subjects with others who do not do your job or share in your recreational activities at the same level ? And please don't say no, cause you'd be full of crap. What's so holier then thow about preaching that it is a volunteer run org that anyone who wants can help run it (crap you don't even have to be a permit buyer to do so) ? Anyone who buys a permit or doesn't does have the same say and oportunities to present anything they want, as exsisting volunteers. They just have to put forth the effort, as do exsisting volunteers...... Don't want to put forth the effort then don't expect an exisiting volunteer to jump at your idea because you think it's a good one, the oportunity is there for anyone who wishes .... The fact that some still do not realize or believe this, or use just it as an excuses to try and get others to do for them ....... is what scares me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 If all 7000 who run the OFSC, and theoretically it that number could be as many as who volunteer, get a vote well that is a democratic system. I assumed you were referring to those who are only permit holders, which is, who I believe Nutter was referring to in his post. My mistake. And yes, it is a non-profit business. That is still a business. I just meant theoretically that everyone could have a vote which makes it democratic. Something that I feel is being circumvented when a clear leader in the organisation states that he runs his club with a bias based on his own personal experiences and disreagards idea's from caring sledders who post on the internet rather other volunteer venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 If all 7000 who run the OFSC, and theoretically it that number could be as many as who volunteer, get a vote well that is a democratic system. I assumed you were referring to those who are only permit holders, which is, who I believe Nutter was referring to in his post. My mistake. And yes, it is a non-profit business. That is still a business. I just meant theoretically that everyone could have a vote which makes it democratic. Something that I feel is being circumvented when a clear leader in the organisation states that he runs his club with a bias based on his own personal experiences and disreagards idea's from caring sledders who post on the internet rather other volunteer venues. Sorry but I don't run any club, our membership does, and I don't recall discountring any input over another ?? Nice twists, grab yourself a cookie you deserve one for that Could very well be Dom .... but we do listen to permit buyers hence the reason there even is online permit buying available. The opinions given on this or any other message board are not the only opinions we hear, we have membership meetings (and many are just that members and not volunteers), club events and trail side, club house, restaurant, sled shop talk where we generally get the pulse of what the permit buyer wants out of the organisation. But I do feel we are biased towards how we run the org, through a biased knowledge of actually doing it, where as 90+% of all permit buyers have no idea what so ever of what it takes logistically and finacially to do so, as shown by many posts on many message boards. Catch ya on the snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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