Online pass purchase - OUCH the fees!

[UsedtoSkidoo]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

[Fred Quimby]

This is not intended to bash any or all OFSC volunteers. I myself have nearly 20 years of volunteer experience from one agency to another and have logged close to 15000 hours of time in those agencies.

However. For an organization such as the OFSC it is irresponsible to manage all of the administration, sales, marketing, call taking, planning, etc with only sole volunteers. Volunteerism is the backbone to success but is is certainly not the whole enchilada. When people pay a fee or money towards something, (in this case a trail pass) they expect to be able to see supporting facts and figures as to where their money goes. They expect to be able to pick up a phone and get those answers. They may or may not be satisfied or happy with the response, but it is an answer nonetheless.

The OFSC needs to not only look at how they are doing business today by evaluation or some other process, but plan for tomorrow. A small office staff is not the answer to solving these problems. There should be in place a marketing plan to administer all of the business processes the organization needs to fulfill. The OFSC needs to understand strengths and weaknesses and build on satisfying a plan to improve on the weak areas and strengthen the already sound areas of operations. They need to look at partnerships and sponsorship as well as building both a mission statement but a vision statement. Then can you build in responsibility and more importantly accountability. This is not and should not be an old boys club that operates on the whim of a few (not saying that the OFSC is this either), but rather suffice to say, steer clear of this path.

There has to be a balance between organization, affiliation, hired professionals to build your business and maintain it and the volunteers whi will remain a backbone to the organization. This in no way is intended to downplay the importance of skilled volunteers but at the end of the day there is a liability placed upon directors, managers and those responsible for creating policy and procedures. It is unfair to place that burden entirely on volunteers. Plus it is borderline criminal to do so. Managers and directors are paid to be responsible and responsive to the agency. They are held accountable for their actions, and so they should be.

[SlowTouringGuy]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

17.2 million is the reported revenues from trail permit sales last season.

22.5 million is the estimate of total OFSC and club expenses last season.

[skidooer]

I smell a permit raise coming!

It already went up by an additional $10. Unless, of course, you live in the 1990s, in which case, the $10 fee is waived.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

17.2 million is the reported revenues from trail permit sales last season.

22.5 million is the estimate of total OFSC and club expenses last season.

Government grants?

[Domino]

This is not intended to bash any or all OFSC volunteers. I myself have nearly 20 years of volunteer experience from one agency to another and have logged close to 15000 hours of time in those agencies.

However. For an organization such as the OFSC it is irresponsible to manage all of the administration, sales, marketing, call taking, planning, etc with only sole volunteers. Volunteerism is the backbone to success but is is certainly not the whole enchilada. When people pay a fee or money towards something, (in this case a trail pass) they expect to be able to see supporting facts and figures as to where their money goes. They expect to be able to pick up a phone and get those answers. They may or may not be satisfied or happy with the response, but it is an answer nonetheless.

The OFSC needs to not only look at how they are doing business today by evaluation or some other process, but plan for tomorrow. A small office staff is not the answer to solving these problems. There should be in place a marketing plan to administer all of the business processes the organization needs to fulfill. The OFSC needs to understand strengths and weaknesses and build on satisfying a plan to improve on the weak areas and strengthen the already sound areas of operations. They need to look at partnerships and sponsorship as well as building both a mission statement but a vision statement. Then can you build in responsibility and more importantly accountability. This is not and should not be an old boys club that operates on the whim of a few (not saying that the OFSC is this either), but rather suffice to say, steer clear of this path.

There has to be a balance between organization, affiliation, hired professionals to build your business and maintain it and the volunteers whi will remain a backbone to the organization. This in no way is intended to downplay the importance of skilled volunteers but at the end of the day there is a liability placed upon directors, managers and those responsible for creating policy and procedures. It is unfair to place that burden entirely on volunteers. Plus it is borderline criminal to do so. Managers and directors are paid to be responsible and responsive to the agency. They are held accountable for their actions, and so they should be.

If you look at any large non-profit or charitable organization, you will likely find a paid executive.

[SlowTouringGuy]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

17.2 million is the reported revenues from trail permit sales last season.

22.5 million is the estimate of total OFSC and club expenses last season.

Government grants?

They made up the difference.

[02Sled]

I smell a permit raise coming!

Let's have a referendum regarding hiring a $200,000.00 CEO that way we can say we saved money... down from $250,000.00. With the smaller salary the permit increase can be promoted with "The good news is the increase will only be another $30.00 per year rather than $50.00.

There is a great tool out there that seems to be growing in popularity. Unfortunately the government or government connected organizations haven't caught on to it yet. Typically what happens today is that if an organization is looking for a product or service they put it out for tender and invite minimally 3 companies to bid. Yeah... I know often government just gives the business to their cousin. The problem is that those bids are not always the lowest possible price.

The alternative is an online reverse auction. The customer invites potential vendors to participate in on a specific date and time. The requirements are provided well in advance. Each vendor puts in their initial bid for your business. They don't know who the other participants are but they can see their ranking as #1, #2 and #3. They don't know by how much they are off. They can then sharpen their pencils and enter a new bid driving the price lower. Usually the auction runs 30 minutes but if someone puts in a new bid in the last 5 minutes the software automatically extends the window an extra 5 minutes to allow others to place a new bid. It has saved us litterally millions. Perhaps if the OFSC employed this when making purchases of any volume they too could save money.

[Domino]

I smell a permit raise coming!

Let's have a referendum regarding hiring a $200,000.00 CEO that way we can say we saved money... down from $250,000.00. With the smaller salary the permit increase can be promoted with "The good news is the increase will only be another $30.00 per year rather than $50.00.

There is a great tool out there that seems to be growing in popularity. Unfortunately the government or government connected organizations haven't caught on to it yet. Typically what happens today is that if an organization is looking for a product or service they put it out for tender and invite minimally 3 companies to bid. Yeah... I know often government just gives the business to their cousin. The problem is that those bids are not always the lowest possible price.

The alternative is an online reverse auction. The customer invites potential vendors to participate in on a specific date and time. The requirements are provided well in advance. Each vendor puts in their initial bid for your business. They don't know who the other participants are but they can see their ranking as #1, #2 and #3. They don't know by how much they are off. They can then sharpen their pencils and enter a new bid driving the price lower. Usually the auction runs 30 minutes but if someone puts in a new bid in the last 5 minutes the software automatically extends the window an extra 5 minutes to allow others to place a new bid. It has saved us litterally millions. Perhaps if the OFSC employed this when making purchases of any volume they too could save money.

OK, back to facts....

Currently the price of a permit is $250 or $200 if purchased before Dec. 1st. The combined total of full season and visitor trail permits sold for the 2008/2009 season was 93,735.

Given these published OFSC numbers, a CEO at a cost of $200k would represent $2.13 per permit purchase. or less than 0.85% of the full permit price.

A CEO could be hired with an objective to save $5 per permit on average, putting $2.87 per permit back into the trails.

[Nutter]

Cool you guys have this all figured out ....... see ya's at AGM next year when you propose this. But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther, because judging by your posts none of you have any idea at all. Or do you figure you have it all worked out to take the lead in reorganizing a $22. mil a year organization (really a $220 mil a year org if you take out the volunteer aspect) that you feel needs reorganizing

Best day of OFSC posts on OC to date

[skidooer]

But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther

That is why we are having this discussion; to learn more about the system. Domino has presented a reasonable argument as to how a paid CEO could help the organization. Given your intimate knowledge of the OFSC organization, it should be easy for you to present facts and figures showing why a paid CEO would never work, if it could not work. Speculation about volunteer backlash does not really refute his argument in any way.

And I would still like to know why volunteers find it acceptable to spend $500,000 answering the phone, but not $250,000 to eliminate those costs?

[Domino]

Cool you guys have this all figured out ....... see ya's at AGM next year when you propose this. But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther, because judging by your posts none of you have any idea at all. Or do you figure you have it all worked out to take the lead in reorganizing a $22. mil a year organization (really a $220 mil a year org if you take out the volunteer aspect) that you feel needs reorganizing

Best day of OFSC posts on OC to date

Its cute that you think we are all dumb. I have managed millions of dollars and have been tasked with saving hundreds of thousands within a large corporation. I could point out the results of my involvement in over 2000 places in Canada. This is not rocket science to anyone that is educated and experienced in business management. $22m is peanuts actually.

It has been proven time and time again that clubs that are failing financially can be brought back to life by a new business minded executive (Volunteer). There is no place for the old boys club in a $22m enterprise.

Nutter, you are fortunate to be a part of a great club. Keep up the great work. The OFSC could be improved. That's not to say they are doing a bad job, however they could do a better job and snowmobiling in Ontario could grow.

There are likely some very intelligent business people that have retired that might volunteer to lead the OFSC. However, the President of the OFSC is elected and it is therefore a popularity contest, not a selection based on qualifications. I for one would certainly not recommend the employees select the next CEO of any Corporation.

There are many educated business people providing input here. Unfortunately they do not have the time to go to an AGM, but are willing to contribute in other ways.

I'm starting to understand why we have trouble getting people involved....

[Wildbill]

Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now?

I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members.

I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees !

[Nutter]

Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now?

I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members.

I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees !

It doesn't, hence the mention of those posting about a CEO not knowing how the OFSC works, even after it's been explained umpteen times over.

Once more, in laymans terms from the top of the food chain ...

Permit buyers (option to participate in running org by becoming club members, and can do as little going to one meeting a year .... club exec elections)

Club members ... over see and elect club exec ..

Club exec ... over see and elect dist gov ..

Dist board of govs ... over see and elect commitees and hire and fire paid OFSC staff ..

As for educating with what I know, I pretty well covered it all already in a bunch of posts ... and all it ever comes back to is, is me waving the volunteer flag ..... hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

[Classic]

I smell a permit raise coming!

Let's have a referendum regarding hiring a $200,000.00 CEO that way we can say we saved money... down from $250,000.00. With the smaller salary the permit increase can be promoted with "The good news is the increase will only be another $30.00 per year rather than $50.00.

There is a great tool out there that seems to be growing in popularity. Unfortunately the government or government connected organizations haven't caught on to it yet. Typically what happens today is that if an organization is looking for a product or service they put it out for tender and invite minimally 3 companies to bid. Yeah... I know often government just gives the business to their cousin. The problem is that those bids are not always the lowest possible price.

The alternative is an online reverse auction. The customer invites potential vendors to participate in on a specific date and time. The requirements are provided well in advance. Each vendor puts in their initial bid for your business. They don't know who the other participants are but they can see their ranking as #1, #2 and #3. They don't know by how much they are off. They can then sharpen their pencils and enter a new bid driving the price lower. Usually the auction runs 30 minutes but if someone puts in a new bid in the last 5 minutes the software automatically extends the window an extra 5 minutes to allow others to place a new bid. It has saved us litterally millions. Perhaps if the OFSC employed this when making purchases of any volume they too could save money.

OK, back to facts....

Currently the price of a permit is $250 or $200 if purchased before Dec. 1st. The combined total of full season and visitor trail permits sold for the 2008/2009 season was 93,735.

Given these published OFSC numbers, a CEO at a cost of $200k would represent $2.13 per permit purchase. or less than 0.85% of the full permit price.

A CEO could be hired with an objective to save $5 per permit on average, putting $2.87 per permit back into the trails.

Can you imagine the whining on here if we told the permit buyers it was going to cost him another $2.50 a permit because we are going to hire a CEO to do the work that volunteers have been doing all along? The first question posed by the volunteers is "When are going to get paid?

There was a motion put forward at AGM 2009 to raise the fees $2.50 so that clubs could afford to go to AGM and the clubs climbed all over us for taking money off the snow. The problem with all these "Not for profit" charitys collecting money is the salary paid to the top brass. It's no longer "Not for profit" when you pay big salarys to a few at the trough.

The OFSC was all ways designed to be run by the grassroots. And yes its not as grassroots as it was, it still has lots of control from the bottom. The clubs will stand for nothing less.

[Nutter]

Cool you guys have this all figured out ....... see ya's at AGM next year when you propose this. But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther, because judging by your posts none of you have any idea at all. Or do you figure you have it all worked out to take the lead in reorganizing a $22. mil a year organization (really a $220 mil a year org if you take out the volunteer aspect) that you feel needs reorganizing

Best day of OFSC posts on OC to date

Its cute that you think we are all dumb. I have managed millions of dollars and have been tasked with saving hundreds of thousands within a large corporation. I could point out the results of my involvement in over 2000 places in Canada. This is not rocket science to anyone that is educated and experienced in business management. $22m is peanuts actually.

It has been proven time and time again that clubs that are failing financially can be brought back to life by a new business minded executive (Volunteer). There is no place for the old boys club in a $22m enterprise.

Nutter, you are fortunate to be a part of a great club. Keep up the great work. The OFSC could be improved. That's not to say they are doing a bad job, however they could do a better job and snowmobiling in Ontario could grow.

There are likely some very intelligent business people that have retired that might volunteer to lead the OFSC. However, the President of the OFSC is elected and it is therefore a popularity contest, not a selection based on qualifications. I for one would certainly not recommend the employees select the next CEO of any Corporation.

There are many educated business people providing input here. Unfortunately they do not have the time to go to an AGM, but are willing to contribute in other ways.

I'm starting to understand why we have trouble getting people involved....

Wrong, the presidential position of the OFSC is nominated and elected by 17 Dist Gov's based on qualificatoins to be the head spokesman of the org, and to help steer the board of Govs. Those 17 Gov's are nominated and elected by clubs exec within each of their districts. Those club exec are nominated and elected by their permit buyers who choose to be club members who choose to take part of voting in those elections.

No need to go to AGM, anything can be proposed through a local club meeting and carried forward by the club .... (can even be through one single meeting).

Seems to be the same as most private and public corps ... just with volunteers ?

[Nutter]

Can you imagine the whining on here if we told the permit buyers it was going to cost him another $2.50 a permit because we are going to hire a CEO to do the work that volunteers have been doing all along? The first question posed by the volunteers is "When are going to get paid?

There was a motion put forward at AGM 2009 to raise the fees $2.50 so that clubs could afford to go to AGM and the clubs climbed all over us for taking money off the snow. The problem with all these "Not for profit" charitys collecting money is the salary paid to the top brass. It's no longer "Not for profit" when you pay big salarys to a few at the trough.

The OFSC was all ways designed to be run by the grassroots. And yes its not as grassroots as it was, it still has lots of control from the bottom. The clubs will stand for nothing less.

FWI Classic ... that was my motion. Took me about 5 hours through the course of a week or two to do the research to put it together into a proposal, even though it didn't pass and went to commitee to further study feasability and other funding methods ... isn't it awesome we have an org were anyone can have their say in how they think it is to be run, just as I did, with just a little effort.

Just to clairify the motion wasn't to raise permit fee's ..... it was to just take $2.50 from each permit and put it aside to insure each and every club in the province had the funding to be present at AGM no matter what their fincial status was at that time of year, to insure every club has the ability to carry their clubs voice and vote in person rather then some being through unaccountable proxy votes.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

17.2 million is the reported revenues from trail permit sales last season.

22.5 million is the estimate of total OFSC and club expenses last season.

Government grants?

They made up the difference.

SO how is there a deficit?

[SlowTouringGuy]

And where in the world do you think the $250,000 would come from? We're already short about 5 mil a year. It would be the end of the volunteers as we know them today.

how are we short 5 mill a year? and why?

17.2 million is the reported revenues from trail permit sales last season.

22.5 million is the estimate of total OFSC and club expenses last season.

Government grants?

They made up the difference.

SO how is there a deficit?

There isn't.

[Domino]

Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now?

I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members.

I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees !

It doesn't, hence the mention of those posting about a CEO not knowing how the OFSC works, even after it's been explained umpteen times over.

Once more, in laymans terms from the top of the food chain ...

Permit buyers (option to participate in running org by becoming club members, and can do as little going to one meeting a year .... club exec elections)

Club members ... over see and elect club exec ..

Club exec ... over see and elect dist gov ..

Dist board of govs ... over see and elect commitees and hire and fire paid OFSC staff ..

As for educating with what I know, I pretty well covered it all already in a bunch of posts ... and all it ever comes back to is, is me waving the volunteer flag ..... hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

I never said the Volunteer President does not know how the OFSC works, I suggested he is not a business executive and therefore is not likely to run the OFSC like a business, which it ultimately is and should be.

The United way, in example, is run by a Board of Directors and a CEO that are PAID! There are thousands of volunteers that help the United Way run its daily operations. That's what volunteers do, help operate, not run. Us mere layman can't possible understand how such a large organization runs.....

Since every permit holder has a vote, then let them vote for executive positions. Not this parliamentary crap that happens in Canada. A good old all in vote! Like in the U.S.A.!

hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

Exactly!

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Cool you guys have this all figured out ....... see ya's at AGM next year when you propose this. But before you do you might want to educate yourselves a bit on basically how the OFSC is run all togther, because judging by your posts none of you have any idea at all. Or do you figure you have it all worked out to take the lead in reorganizing a $22. mil a year organization (really a $220 mil a year org if you take out the volunteer aspect) that you feel needs reorganizing

Best day of OFSC posts on OC to date

I think these are great posts and good plausible idea's that should be considered. I would like someone just once whine about a 2.50 increase to put 2.85 back on the trail. I doubt anyone would do that.

As for volunteers getting paid? Wouldnt you rather get paid? I would really like someone to tell me that they dont want to get paid when they could and if that is the case, please step aside so we can pay someone who actually needs a job. In the harsh economic realities of the past year and possibly another future year, I would gladly give up another 100 or so cash to ensure my fellow ontarians could put food on the tables for their families.

I would you would too.

[Classic]

Can you imagine the whining on here if we told the permit buyers it was going to cost him another $2.50 a permit because we are going to hire a CEO to do the work that volunteers have been doing all along? The first question posed by the volunteers is "When are going to get paid?

There was a motion put forward at AGM 2009 to raise the fees $2.50 so that clubs could afford to go to AGM and the clubs climbed all over us for taking money off the snow. The problem with all these "Not for profit" charitys collecting money is the salary paid to the top brass. It's no longer "Not for profit" when you pay big salarys to a few at the trough.

The OFSC was all ways designed to be run by the grassroots. And yes its not as grassroots as it was, it still has lots of control from the bottom. The clubs will stand for nothing less.

FWI Classic ... that was my motion. Took me about 5 hours through the course of a week or two to do the research to put it together into a proposal, even though it didn't pass and went to commitee to further study feasability and other funding methods ... isn't it awesome we have an org were anyone can have their say in how they think it is to be run, just as I did, with just a little effort.

Just to clairify the motion wasn't to raise permit fee's ..... it was to just take $2.50 from each permit and put it aside to insure each and every club in the province had the funding to be present at AGM no matter what their fincial status was at that time of year, to insure every club has the ability to carry their clubs voice and vote in person rather then some being through unaccountable proxy votes.

Your right Nutter. I stated that wrong. FYI I have been asking at our district meeting about that subject and the concensus I get is they don't go because they're not interested.

[Nutter]

Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now?

I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members.

I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees !

It doesn't, hence the mention of those posting about a CEO not knowing how the OFSC works, even after it's been explained umpteen times over.

Once more, in laymans terms from the top of the food chain ...

Permit buyers (option to participate in running org by becoming club members, and can do as little going to one meeting a year .... club exec elections)

Club members ... over see and elect club exec ..

Club exec ... over see and elect dist gov ..

Dist board of govs ... over see and elect commitees and hire and fire paid OFSC staff ..

As for educating with what I know, I pretty well covered it all already in a bunch of posts ... and all it ever comes back to is, is me waving the volunteer flag ..... hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

I never said the Volunteer President does not know how the OFSC works, I suggested he is not a business executive and therefore is not likely to run the OFSC like a business, which it ultimately is and should be.

The United way, in example, is run by a Board of Directors and a CEO that are PAID! There are thousands of volunteers that help the United Way run its daily operations. That's what volunteers do, help operate, not run. Us mere layman can't possible understand how such a large organization runs.....

Since every permit holder has a vote, then let them vote for executive positions. Not this parliamentary crap that happens in Canada. A good old all in vote! Like in the U.S.A.!

hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

Exactly!

I didn't mean the prez not knowing, I meant those talking about hiring a big dollar CEO ..

As for permit buyers voting ... read my laymans terms again ....

And United way ..... this is the exact reason I and many others no longer give to the United Way, and why their revenues are down huge. I like many others give to grass roots charities where a much higer amount goes directly to the people in need, rather then to paying for someones golf and steak dinners with corp donators, that I and the recipiants of the charity have no say in justifying it what so ever.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Hey Nutter ! How would a CEO differ from what Paul does now?

I think that what is not understood is that in theory the OFSC has 231 bosses and is supposed to be run by the clubs and answer to the clubs who in return answer to the members.

I do agree that it/we are not perfect . Discussion forums like this do give us insight . Sometimes you/I/we can't see the forest for the trees !

It doesn't, hence the mention of those posting about a CEO not knowing how the OFSC works, even after it's been explained umpteen times over.

Once more, in laymans terms from the top of the food chain ...

Permit buyers (option to participate in running org by becoming club members, and can do as little going to one meeting a year .... club exec elections)

Club members ... over see and elect club exec ..

Club exec ... over see and elect dist gov ..

Dist board of govs ... over see and elect commitees and hire and fire paid OFSC staff ..

As for educating with what I know, I pretty well covered it all already in a bunch of posts ... and all it ever comes back to is, is me waving the volunteer flag ..... hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

I never said the Volunteer President does not know how the OFSC works, I suggested he is not a business executive and therefore is not likely to run the OFSC like a business, which it ultimately is and should be.

The United way, in example, is run by a Board of Directors and a CEO that are PAID! There are thousands of volunteers that help the United Way run its daily operations. That's what volunteers do, help operate, not run. Us mere layman can't possible understand how such a large organization runs.....

Since every permit holder has a vote, then let them vote for executive positions. Not this parliamentary crap that happens in Canada. A good old all in vote! Like in the U.S.A.!

hard not to talk about volunteers when it's a volunteer run org. :poke:

Exactly!

I didn't mean the prez not knowing, I meant those talking about hiring a big dollar CEO ..

As for permit buyers voting ... read my laymans terms again ....

And United way ..... this is the exact reason I and many others no longer give to the United Way, and why their revenues are down huge. I like many others give to grass roots charities where a much higer amount goes directly to the people in need, rather then to paying for someones golf and steak dinners with corp donators, that I and the recipiants of the charity have no say in justifying it what so ever.

The OFSC should not be a grassroots organisation.

[Nutter]

Can you imagine the whining on here if we told the permit buyers it was going to cost him another $2.50 a permit because we are going to hire a CEO to do the work that volunteers have been doing all along? The first question posed by the volunteers is "When are going to get paid?

There was a motion put forward at AGM 2009 to raise the fees $2.50 so that clubs could afford to go to AGM and the clubs climbed all over us for taking money off the snow. The problem with all these "Not for profit" charitys collecting money is the salary paid to the top brass. It's no longer "Not for profit" when you pay big salarys to a few at the trough.

The OFSC was all ways designed to be run by the grassroots. And yes its not as grassroots as it was, it still has lots of control from the bottom. The clubs will stand for nothing less.

FWI Classic ... that was my motion. Took me about 5 hours through the course of a week or two to do the research to put it together into a proposal, even though it didn't pass and went to commitee to further study feasability and other funding methods ... isn't it awesome we have an org were anyone can have their say in how they think it is to be run, just as I did, with just a little effort.

Just to clairify the motion wasn't to raise permit fee's ..... it was to just take $2.50 from each permit and put it aside to insure each and every club in the province had the funding to be present at AGM no matter what their fincial status was at that time of year, to insure every club has the ability to carry their clubs voice and vote in person rather then some being through unaccountable proxy votes.

Your right Nutter. I stated that wrong. FYI I have been asking at our district meeting about that subject and the concensus I get is they don't go because they're not interested.

10-4 ...... I think the punishing factor I wrote in is what lost my majority vote ... every club contributes to the fund no matter what, some more some less depending on permit sales numbers .... don't go you don't recieve an equal share in the return from that fund, leading to either you go and contribute to run the org, or it's going to cost your club operational dollars to have other clubs run the org for you. ... sort of like a fine with the money being spread out to those practecing due dillagance for their membership.