Snowmobile Tourists in Northern Ontario (Gov't Report)

[Canuck]

Interesting and detailed report on Snowmobile Tourism in Northern Ontario. Published January 2014.

 

rto13-snowmobile-report-final-jan-15.pdf

 

_______________________________________________

 

Some good suggestions but also some bad data

 

Good suggestions:

“If, as predicted, snow cover and season length diminish as a function of climate
change, many of Southern Ontario’s snowmobile tourists might be encouraged to travel further north for quality snowmobiling experiences. Thus, messages that focus on the level of snow cover and the duration of the snowmobiling season may become increasingly important to attract the large snowmobile tourist base in Southern Ontario and New York State” (p.10)

 

Bad data:

“Evidence of a market in decline is also found in RTO13. In December 2012, permit sales for a Thunder Bay snowmobile club was reported to have reached only 55 or about half of the previous year’s sales and a far cry from about 3,500 twenty years ago, leading to a CBC headline:
Sales of trail passes in the Thunder Bay area dropping drastically. 9 According to the same
article, permit sales in other parts of Northern Ontario have also fallen substantively (the nowdefunct North of Superior Snowmobile Association said most clubs in that area have folded)” (p.11)

 

REALLY? Take data from “Sled unfriendly Thunder Bay” as an ‘example’ of decline? Yes, it happened. But wonder if that “sample” was representative.

[Claire Voyant]

Thanks for posting this. I'm going to pour myself some Wiser's and study this further. But I do agree with your comment about Thunder Bay being a non-representative example.

[vooodooo]

Very detailed report. That will take me a while to digest it.

I hope they don't discount the fuel purchase and tax amount.

The average sledder would burn hundreds if not thousands of liters of fuel in sleds and towing vehicles, to go snowmobiling.

A single trip last year to the forest burned no less than 500 liters of fuel for 3 of us.

This would not have been spent, unless to snowmobile.

It's not like I'm going to drive around in the truck, touring and burn that off.

Add in staying at the forest was %100 restaurant meals, paid accommodations.

I'd like to see a single year (maybe not) where the province gets no snow. Show the province what snowmobiling truly does for the economy.

[02Sled]

a lot of those small towns that rely on the snowmobile tourism would perhaps be in serious trouble. There was a picture of a northern motel about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It was literally packed with snowmobiles outside the rooms. I suspect it would have been empty if not for the snowmobilers

[AkronOrange]

As many of you know; I think Ontario is missing the boat on northern Ontario tourism.  Northern Ontario has huge potential; Ontario should exploit the length of the season and advertise it to those areas that have marginal snow at times; southern Ontario, Michigan and the northeastern US.

[sledjunk]

I am not sure how accurate the numbers are.  They seem to be discounting the money that is spent on meals by the people who do not stay in hotels.  I suspect there are a lot of other holes as well.

[Canuck]

The "spending" figures are low. 

 

Reports such as this are a start, however, in appreciating the impact of snowmobiling on Ontario tourism.

 

On some weekends, Hwy 400 is packed with trailers heading north. How can that be ignored? 

[sledjunk]

What I am wondering is where, exactly, are they considering 'northern Ontario'?  Even when I was a kid, that was considered north of North Bay.  Now the official definition is further south.  I suspect they are looking much further north.

[dweese]

What I am wondering is where, exactly, are they considering 'northern Ontario'? Even when I was a kid, that was considered north of North Bay. Now the official definition is further south. I suspect they are looking much further north.

Ask most people from Toronto and they'll tell you Northern Ontario starts at the 407.

[sledjunk]

Too True!

[02Sled]

As many of you know; I think Ontario is missing the boat on northern Ontario tourism.  Northern Ontario has huge potential; Ontario should exploit the length of the season and advertise it to those areas that have marginal snow at times; southern Ontario, Michigan and the northeastern US.

 

Part of the what will impact this is ROI (get the most bang for the buck). Many are just not prepared to travel the distance. There is a finite amount of $'s available for tourism marketing . Essentially the biggest potential market is to draw people from the GTA and south west Ont. It'is an approximate 8 hour drive to Sault Ste, Marie. Most are not willing to make an 8+ hour drive to go snowmobiling. Studies show the typical maximum is about 3 hours or less. If you are an avid snowmobiler taking vacation time mid winter the investment in time can be justified. Typically the target audience for this is also narrowed to a a bunch of guys rather than a family. How many would take their kids out of school for a week of snowmobiling?

 

Do you spend a lot of money trying to entice people to travel 8+ hours and get a small increase in traffic or do you spend the same amount of money to entice people to travel 1/3 that time and get a significant increase in traffic?

 

There is no question that there tends to be lots of snow and a longer season in that area however there are other considerations. I see here all the time people indicating that if you are going to many of these areas be sure to book early as the room availability fills up quickly. Is there any real value in promoting something that the region doesn't perhaps have the services to meet the needs?

[jow]

I laugh when Les Stroud (survivorman) says he's doing survival in far northern ontario. And it's Temagami

[02Sled]

The "spending" figures are low. 

 

Reports such as this are a start, however, in appreciating the impact of snowmobiling on Ontario tourism.

 

On some weekends, Hwy 400 is packed with trailers heading north. How can that be ignored? 

 

The question is how far north and what defines north. For me the marker of northern Ontario seems to start around Sudbury, South of there is central Ontario. Packed is a relative perception. I travel the 400 north each Saturday morning during the winter months and it's light traffic, at least compared to a Friday night in July.

[sledjunk]

The surveys that have been done are measuring the status quo, and with many surveys, the questions are structured to produce the desired responses.

 

However, in order to increase tourism to the north, we need to think of ways to entice sledders to push their limitations.  I think that the majority of my trailering trips are more like 3 - 5 hours.  Once I am in the truck, I would rather trailer to better conditions than save a couple of hours and ride crowded or less than stellar trails.  I have trailered to our local clubhouse, but really found that more of a PITA than an enjoyable day.

[sledjunk]

I see here all the time people indicating that if you are going to many of these areas be sure to book early as the room availability fills up quickly. Is there any real value in promoting something that the region doesn't perhaps have the services to meet the needs?

 

I think you are mistaken.  Yes, there are occasions when rooms fill up, but they are usually either beginning or end of season.  There are also some hockey tournaments that cause shortages on weekends.  However, the owner of the (now) three hotels in New Liskeard did not build the third one a couple of years ago because it would stay empty.

 

There is certainly value promoting the region and if services are not quite adequate, I expect they soon will be.

[02Sled]

The surveys that have been done are measuring the status quo, and with many surveys, the questions are structured to produce the desired responses.

 

However, in order to increase tourism to the north, we need to think of ways to entice sledders to push their limitations.  I think that the majority of my trailering trips are more like 3 - 5 hours.  Once I am in the truck, I would rather trailer to better conditions than save a couple of hours and ride crowded or less than stellar trails.  I have trailered to our local clubhouse, but really found that more of a PITA than an enjoyable day.

 

You are an avid snowmobiler to say the least. I envy you at times. When you trailer those 3 to 5 hours is that for a Saturday Sunday or for a longer period or perhaps mid week. If I suggested to my wife I was going snowmobiling for a week at a time, especially on a regular basis and cutting down on the vacation available for us in the summer it likely wouldn't go well. I know she wouldn't be into a a week long of snowmobiling. But then again I may be mistaken and she may be happy to get rid of me for a week.

 

As it stands now I am I believe like the vast majority Sat / Sun trips and to devote 10 hours of those two days to driving would be a challenge

[sledjunk]

Often, those trips will be leaving after work on Friday and returning on Sunday, or Monday if I can stretch it.  So usually two to three day weekends.

 

Other than this year, I usually only have one week long trip, and then piece together a day or two here and there along with a weekend.

 

This year was unusual as I had one 12 day trip (actually back to back 4 day and 8 day) and then a week trip to Quebec.  Also, most of my weekends were stretched to three or four days, using up saved vacation days.

 

Almost all of my vacation has been taken in the winter for the last four or five years, though, so I am lucky there.  My wife considers it a vacation when I am not around

 

Boy, will she be upset after the end of the month

[sledjunk]

As it stands now I am I believe like the vast majority Sat / Sun trips and to devote 10 hours of those two days to driving would be a challenge

Yes, I think you are in the majority, therefore you are our target audience for change!

[Claire Voyant]

As you can see, the Tourism Northern Ontario region covers a pretty wide swath.  Does what applies to North Bay, also apply to Sioux Lookout?  They've lumped the north together, but not sure we're really talking apples and apples.

 

Tourism Regions (North).pdf

[Techdenis007]

I believe there is room for improvement in marketing of the North for snowmobiling weekend trips and I would fit in that demographic well, having never done a saddlebag trip. We see Cochrane, RMR and Luc groomer guy promoting the snot out of their areas, but few others ... and with great success. They have a great reputation of having a superior product. Other areas should follow their example, not the least of which includes Hearst.

If all of Hwy 11 & 17 communities did the sport would promote itself better than any government marketing gimmick could

[Viperules700]

Accommodations still limit travel though. Hearst was all booked up Friday, Saturday, nights do to hockey tournament last weekend in march. That limits how far people can go. Dub only has 5 rooms available, so I was able to get the last one for Tuesday night. Unless some other accomdations open it will be hard for people to tour thru in larger numbers.

[Techdenis007]

4 motels booked up, or the 2 preferred motels? Had you checked the Hojo, and Villa at the west end of town?

[Claire Voyant]

I believe there is room for improvement in marketing of the North for snowmobiling weekend trips and I would fit in that demographic well, having never done a saddlebag trip. We see Cochrane, RMR and Luc groomer guy promoting the snot out of their areas, but few others ... and with great success. They have a great reputation of having a superior product. Other areas should follow their example, not the least of which includes Hearst.

If all of Hwy 11 & 17 communities did the sport would promote itself better than any government marketing gimmick could

Except for one trip to Timmins, I've never ridden out of our District and I do feel spoiled sometimes.   Never really had the chance or the money to do any real touring.....but when you hear so many people talk about how great our trails are, why would I want to? 

[Claire Voyant]

Accommodations still limit travel though. Hearst was all booked up Friday, Saturday, nights do to hockey tournament last weekend in march. That limits how far people can go. Dub only has 5 rooms available, so I was able to get the last one for Tuesday night. Unless some other accomdations open it will be hard for people to tour thru in larger numbers.

Having worked in the hotel business up here, I couldn't agree more. I found the Tourism Report interesting because it seemed to indicate that the majority of snowmobile tourists stayed in "unpaid lodging" i.e. private cottages or homes of friends.  The report goes on to state that snowmobile tourists "do not represent a particularly promising market opportunity for the lodging sector."  Say what?? Were the motels and hotels of Northern Ontario not polled for this report?

 

For what it's worth, we've got a sofa-bed and a cot in the basement if anybody gets stuck.....

[Viperules700]

Having worked in the hotel business up here, I couldn't agree more. I found the Tourism Report interesting because it seemed to indicate that the majority of snowmobile tourists stayed in "unpaid lodging" i.e. private cottages or homes of friends.  The report goes on to state that snowmobile tourists "do not represent a particularly promising market opportunity for the lodging sector."  Say what?? Were the motels and hotels of Northern Ontario not polled for this report?

 

For what it's worth, we've got a sofa-bed and a cot in the basement if anybody gets stuck.....

Thanks! Kap always seems to have rooms. I talked to the owners of the westway in cochrane there phone was ringing off the hook the last week of march. Said they felt bad for booking in two hockey tournaments for the weekend. Lots of sleds in all of the hotels both when I left on monday and arrived back on Thursday. Had to be 50 sleds alone at the westway, Thursday night. Most riders were just doing day trips from cochrane to Timmins, canyon etc. I didn't drive 800 Km's to ride in circles for four days. So I enjoyed our trip out to dub and back, great scenery and people along the way. Really appreciate the value of the permit after putting on 1200 Km's in 4 days. Sometimes I barely get that in a season down here in the south.