tricky

OK. So I sorta get the Turbo 850 in mountain sleds. But, in this very litigious North American environment, I can't see why a manufacturer would want to unleash a roughly 200 HP "trail sled", weighing 500 pounds or less, that will be used on public 2-direction trails. Oh, especially in Ontario where the trail speed limit is 50 KPH. I just got back from 4 days riding in the Sudbury to Cochrane area. Generally great conditions and little traffic, but as we returned south yesterday, the weekend warriors were heading north, still in small numbers, but some at very high speed coming around corners on my side of the trail. No harm was done as I put my sled just off the outside edge of the trail, but I really don't want those guys having any more power. The sport is just a couple of fast head on collisions away from a "paradigm shift", IMO.

X2, ??? Driver abstracts - What, where, why

Thanks Turbo Doo and signfan for the info. I find it a bitch that to find out 'news', it seems one has to capitulate to Mark Zuckerberg.

Does anyone know what is keeping A107 west of Elk Lake, and small sections of A108 north and south of Englehart "red"?

I agree with your assessment. This is unfortunate, primarily for the business owner, but also we sledders.

Thanks Ski. That is kinda what I thought was the case. Certainly too much work for one club based in Chapleau. I miss that 'Rugged Ass Terrain' on the original C101D to Folyet. Sure separated the diehards from the rest. Some of our group are still riding after a few passes thru there, but a few packed it in after a couple of exposures. I guess they curl or watch TV now in the winter. Miss Ernie's, the long cold run up Dog Lake, and a lodge near the tracks, I believe south or west of Missanabie, operated by a couple that were 80 (him, and we celebrated his 80th with them) and quite a bite closer to 60 (her). It was a fishing/hunting lodge in the non-sledding seasons, and IIRC, the groomer operated out of their property. They were great people, as are many in the north. GTC, Sorry. I just realized that I hijacked your thread for my own trip down memory lane in a part of the world that I really admire, and consequently miss. If anyone backs out on your trip at the last minute and you want a replacement, let me know.

Thanks Mike. Interested to see tomorrow if that is some, most or all the ML trails. Looking for some where to go south of 17 for a couple of days next week.

Dan, thank you for the background on the creation of the D102F trail. Thanks to the Sault Trailblazers and you volunteers for creating that link to the D trail.Whether using the short cut or not, that trail is a nice ride and it is critical for us 'big loop' touring riders after the F trail north to Chapleau was shut down. What club looked after the F trail north of Aubrey Falls to Chapleau? That was a rugged bit of terrain. Was it too expensive to maintain, do you know? As ski mentioned, that was a great trail highlighted by Flame Lake Lodge and the family that operated it. They went 'above and beyond' to help and accommodate our group the first time we happened upon that area. As a result we went back several times over a fairly short period of about 4 years. That could have been our group at AF about ten years ago. If it was, you caught us the only time that we sledded through the area from north to south. Had several trips there, south to north.

Sledjunk, I wasn't worried about about censorship. My concern was getting verbally abused for suggesting bypassing the marked trail and using Ranger Lake and Domtar Roads. When we and others used that route two years ago, some readers were pissed with what we were doing. As for riding across the washout, there was always less than a foot of water, but the first time I crossed thru, it was just after an eastbound 800 Doo had experienced a frozen throttle cable from the water and crashed at full throttle into a tree a few hundred metres east of the washout. Luckily the rider bailed off the machine, but it was a write-off. That caused us to look for a detour the next time thru the area. I am sure that soon someone will give us an update that all is well at that spot.

I miss the old F trail straight north from Aubrey Falls to Chapleau and the stay at Flame Lake lodge. It has been gone for a long time and I assume not coming back. I have avoided replying to your questions for fear of censure, but I believe in being informed.So....first with the two year old washout on D102F, in case it is still there. I have safely crossed thru the water (4-8" deep) as Dan suggested, but I also arrived there with a cautious group when there was a little more flow to the water. One of our riders really didn't want to attempt the crossing. So we scoped out a bypass to the north side of the main trail over the large pond that feeds the water to the washout. We avoided the area close to the flowing water, and got onto the ice about 30 metres north of the start of the washout. We verified safe ice and a safe exit point off the pond ice back onto the trail. We successfully used our bypass for most of our group(one or two still rode thru the washout). Three weeks later our bypass was still being used. So there is an option - its doable with decent ice. The ride from Elliot Lake to Wawa can be a long day for some if conditions are tough. Again we took a fairly senior group of seniors on that route and were looking to shorten that stretch a bit. A responsible OCer, who shall remain blameless, had informed me of a detour off the F trail connecting back up to the D102F, cutting out about 30 km of total travel, IIRC. Trail km were shortened by about 30-40 km, but the road detour was almost 10 km long. When the F trail heads north from Black Creek (A Falls), it soon crosses Ranger Lake Rd (#556). At that point, if the snow conditions allow, you can use the road edge to follow 556 west for a couple of km until just before the road crosses a major bridge over the river. Turn right (north) there onto the Domtar Rd and similarly follow it for about 5-6 km until you will see the D102F on your right joining the road as main trail. You are now on D102F and watch for the regular trail signage. Someone can likely perfect my mileage estimates on the detour, or tell me to stay the f**k of it. I assume you experienced sledders will be carrying at least one saw. Priceless when you need it. I am jealous of your planned trip. Enjoy!

OK, so it looks like I was wrong and there was no joke intended. If that is the case, it is really unfortunate that good and valuable information can't be shared without reprisal. I know that since I joined this forum, primarily to get real-life, firsthand reports of trail conditions, I have been able to plan the best trips for our group that we've ever had (and we were at this along time before I found you guys). When two to six people are taking from 4 days to over a week's vacation, including shutting down small businesses, there is a lot at stake. Several contributors to this forum have helped me pick the best times and places to take sledding vacations to such various destinations as Mattawa/North Bay, Timmins, Elliot Lake, Searchmont, Wawa/Dubeuilville, Hearst, Cochrane, Kirkland Lake, Sudbury,.....The detail that OCers have offered supplements the trail conditions as reported on the ITG and minimizes the chances of an expensive vacation wasted. I hope those who have helped me know who they are,. Thank you, and please continue to offer less knowledgable sledders excellent advice on not just trail conditions but, 'do arounds', accommodations, fuel, food etc. We can't expect the ITG to give us all the info we need to make good planning decisions, and we shouldn't try to muzzle conscientious sledders offering advice. If not a joke, maybe it was a misunderstanding.

This was intended as a joke, correct?

Our group routinely exceed 250 km with our 120" and 129" 900 Doos. Last year, one buddy rode Duby to Searchmont (bypassing Wawa), 324 km, with his '15 900 TNT. Still had over a litre of fuel left. We pass more people than pass us, so we aren't coasting.

Oh yah, well we got 4 centimetres (or more) right here in Milton! Happy New Year Dan, and keep those positive reports coming.

Thanks for the report. Great place to stay!

I was thinking the same thing. Of course a month or more ago, when we had snow and cold for a week in the south, I thought I would be sledding Arthur, Mount Forest and area, between Christmas and New Year's like I did about 4 years ago. Conditions weren't great then, but they were decent enough to open the trails up thru the Luther Marsh and back. Now with the Conservation Area insurance issue, we may get the snow and still not have a viable open trail network. Lots of reasons why I am glad that I long ago (1994, IIRC) I became a "trailer to wherever the snow is" convert. I feel sorry for the folks that can't or won't make that life altering decision. The real north is where the great conditions develop, and it looks like they came early this year. Keep those northern pics coming! The next week looks good north of 17.

Depending on your personal relationship and strength of your sledding interest, that can mean more or less sledding for you. Whichever way it unfolds, all the best in your new sledding future. I am a dog lover, but would feel very confident that my wife and dog would hardly miss me while I took off on multiple touring trips. At least that is how I justify it, and I see it unfold with other couples.

Your comment on the difficulty for many of us, of balancing sledding time versus family time, particularly at this time of year, leads indirectly back to the topic of this thread. Permits. In the south, the permit(s) purchase is complicated by the lack of a local snowmobile season. In the past four years, I have snowmobiled locally (no out of town lodging) five days in D4, 5 and/or 9. For me that doesn't effect my decision to always purchase my pass early. I will go wherever the snow is, but that is not an option to hundreds of (former) southern sledders whose families aren't totally into sledding, and their departures to the north sledding would upset the family balance. For many friends, the new winter norm has them in various stages of snowmobile withdrawal. Some have cashed out completely; some who bought passes in the fall of 16 and 17, only to never use them, have kept a sled or two, just 'in case'. A few continue to buy passes in perpetual hope. Some have bought two day passes on occasion in the past couple of years. I can't blame them for that, when family commitments are such that, even when we get a week of open trails, they may be off with family to a hockey tournament or a family reunion. I can only assume that full season pass sales in District 4, 5 and 9 have been steadily falling. Amongst friends, the negative trend is somewhat offset by a couple of gentlemen of age being somewhat freed from the daily work/life grind, such that they can contemplate re-entering the sport as touring sledders. This however, is a tough decision when they know the cost is going to be higher than their previous sledding was, while their income has declined. I know there are smarter, more connected people than me studying the trends, and hopefully there will remain a viable market for our trail system. But I don't see how this can happen without more trail pass enforcement, and possible more pass options (I know that has been beat almost to death....)

Very useful thread. Thanks to all for their input. Have you decided Scott?

Denis, I can only assume that you had a stressful Christmas (it happens). Hopefully, 2020 will be a great year for you and your family, as well as all OCers, including Strong Farmer.

This is welcome news. I hope we sledders can make it worth their while, and that they are successful.

My feelings exactly. I don't want non trail users subsidizing my recreation, but we need to see targeted enforcement of trespassing laws on OFSC trails. I think its called a 'user pay' system.

Sad that this sort of thing continues to happen year after year. May he RIP.

Thanks signfan and everyone else offering information. I will be doing exactly as you advise. I also have a couple of half dead old poplar trees leaning out over the beach, and I hope to have enough ice that I can fell them onto the ice without breaking it open. The whole idea of leaving the job until winter is to keep bark debris out of the lake. If I hear of sledding on the area lakes, I know I will be okay on our quiet, shallow bay. Please keep the updates coming.

I am not pushing to get out sledding on half frozen lakes, but I am wondering from here in the sunny south, if smaller lakes are starting to solidly freeze up? My particular concern is Wollaston lake at Coe Hill, and whether or not we might be able to skate on the smaller bays buy Christmas or New Years. Most years we could, but maybe I am going back waaaay too far.