Kanatarider Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Henry Ford knew if you lowered the price, you sold more cars, creating a solid foundation for the future - and paid the bills. But in our case, we just keep prices for permits ridiculously high, then we get rid of one day permits and eliminate other short term permits. STUPID But it gets worse!! Try $500+ for sledging in Ottawa!!! Here is the dumbest thing about our Ontario and Quebec Sled Associations. People in the Ottawa Area (1 million people live here) sled across the river into Quebec as our trail network connects to their network. Now you think from a promotion and tourism standpoint, you would want to celebrate the region and promote the million people on the Ontario side with the great trails only 5 kilometers away across the river in Quebec. Hell no... They want us to pay for a full permit in Ontario and a full permit in Quebec. Ontario loses again because I refuse to buy both. I just drive on a small portion of the Ontario trail from where we park and head right into Quebec. And I pay Quebec. I would like to drive to other cool locatiOns in Ontario, but I refuse. Solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Not the best way to make a first impression on here by by ranting about pass prices and admitting that you are trespassing Ford built cars in a different era than today's economy. Ford had also been on the verge of collapse more than once. If you hate the price for "sledging" that much, then quit. We all pay for our enjoyment of things, like it or not. Nothing is a free ride in this world. You want to sled in Ontario, you pay. You want to sled in Quebec you pay there too. Make up your mind! There are costs such as insurance, groomer upkeep and replacement, signage, repairs..the list goes on and on. Both Ontario and Quebec have these costs. That is why we pay permit dollars. Pick yourself up a sledding magazine and in almost every issue it talks about the costs to open and maintain trails. Some clubs have to pay a groomer operator! There are not enough volunteers. If you sled in the U.S...you buy the appropriate pass for that area. So..the same game applies up here. How much do you spend on a sled, gas, insurance, gear? Do you whine about those prices too? Most if not all the people on here agree with paying for playing. Sure the system needs work to improve access to price point permits..hopefully that will come. It has been debated here. Check the forums. A lot of people on this forum volunteer a great number of hours to bring people like you enjoyment on the trails. It usually costs them money to volunteer and they get little recognition from doing that work. It is a slap in the face when somebody as ignorant as yourself comes here and mouth's off at his first post like you have. Get educated. Try thanking the people that bring you these trails and try volunteering. I don't care one iota that you "just drive on a small portion of the Ontario trail from where we park and head right into Quebec". You are trespassing illegally on OFSC trails. If you do not want to buy an Ontario permit. Trailer your sled to Quebec and off load and sled away over there. You are missing out on some excellent trails here in Ontario. Your loss. You will get little sympathy here for trespassing! You are lucky to be so close to two trail systems. Your comment "Solve the problem" is as about as ignorant as I have seen in a long time. If you are not part of the problem, you are part of the solution. Maybe if more morons paid for their permits instead of trespassing and doing your share of damage to the trails then we would probably be able to lower the prices.See your comment about Henry Ford lowering the prices to sell more cars...perhaps if the volume of permits went up the price would come down! Can't wait for this to unfold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Henry Ford knew if you lowered the price, you sold more cars, creating a solid foundation for the future - and paid the bills. But in our case, we just keep prices for permits ridiculously high, then we get rid of one day permits and eliminate other short term permits. STUPID But it gets worse!! Try $500+ for sledging in Ottawa!!! Here is the dumbest thing about our Ontario and Quebec Sled Associations. People in the Ottawa Area (1 million people live here) sled across the river into Quebec as our trail network connects to their network. Now you think from a promotion and tourism standpoint, you would want to celebrate the region and promote the million people on the Ontario side with the great trails only 5 kilometers away across the river in Quebec. Hell no... They want us to pay for a full permit in Ontario and a full permit in Quebec. Ontario loses again because I refuse to buy both. I just drive on a small portion of the Ontario trail from where we park and head right into Quebec. And I pay Quebec. I would like to drive to other cool locatiOns in Ontario, but I refuse. Solve the problem. You want to play you gotta pay. If you don't want to ride the trails in Ontario don't buy a permit. The same can be said for anyone living on any provincial or state border. Since yo choose to advertise that you are a thief by riding the trails in Ontario on your way to Quebec pray you don't get caught. If I came across you on our trails there would be no foregiveness. You would be charged and cost you much much more. If you love Quebec so much why not move there? A trail pass at $200.00 is cheap for what it buys you. I could go on but won't waste my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Henry Ford knew if you lowered the price, you sold more cars, creating a solid foundation for the future - and paid the bills. But in our case, we just keep prices for permits ridiculously high, then we get rid of one day permits and eliminate other short term permits. STUPID But it gets worse!! Try $500+ for sledging in Ottawa!!! Here is the dumbest thing about our Ontario and Quebec Sled Associations. People in the Ottawa Area (1 million people live here) sled across the river into Quebec as our trail network connects to their network. Now you think from a promotion and tourism standpoint, you would want to celebrate the region and promote the million people on the Ontario side with the great trails only 5 kilometers away across the river in Quebec. Hell no... They want us to pay for a full permit in Ontario and a full permit in Quebec. Ontario loses again because I refuse to buy both. I just drive on a small portion of the Ontario trail from where we park and head right into Quebec. And I pay Quebec. I would like to drive to other cool locatiOns in Ontario, but I refuse. Solve the problem. If you paid more than $200 for your permit you got riipped off. Why do you whine about one day permits? You wouldn't use them any way it sounds like you ride all winter. As to the others, the 3 & 7 day are always available as they are in PQ. Do you really feel better now after your blowout? Or did you get nailed on an Ont trail without a permit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater466 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 My friend if you had a clue you might be dangerous. Your permit costs $200 to enjoy the entire network of Ontario trails. That cost has remained flat for a few years now despite rising costs , especially groomer fuel. There is actually more money put into the trail system each year than revenue generated by permit fees thanks to an excellent working partnership with the Ontario Government. Most of the costs occur wether there is any snow by building maintaining trails, bridges, signing, brushing, maintaining the groomer fleet etc... You admit to tresspassing and your seeking sympathy? Your permit fees are lower than your cost to buy, maintain and insure your sled. Have you compared it to other winter activities such as sking? Can you get a ski pass for $200? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Only a troll would put something like this up on their first post. So tell ya what Kanatarider, go check out some of the other boards, there is one out there where your type fit right in... OC is for a higher class of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lastzrt Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Henry Ford knew if you lowered the price, you sold more cars, creating a solid foundation for the future - and paid the bills. But in our case, we just keep prices for permits ridiculously high, then we get rid of one day permits and eliminate other short term permits. STUPID But it gets worse!! Try $500+ for sledging in Ottawa!!! Here is the dumbest thing about our Ontario and Quebec Sled Associations. People in the Ottawa Area (1 million people live here) sled across the river into Quebec as our trail network connects to their network. Now you think from a promotion and tourism standpoint, you would want to celebrate the region and promote the million people on the Ontario side with the great trails only 5 kilometers away across the river in Quebec. Hell no... They want us to pay for a full permit in Ontario and a full permit in Quebec. Ontario loses again because I refuse to buy both. I just drive on a small portion of the Ontario trail from where we park and head right into Quebec. And I pay Quebec. I would like to drive to other cool locatiOns in Ontario, but I refuse. Solve the problem. Try ice fishing. You will catch more suckers than you will on here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Maybe this is Custom John's new moniker??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 Bears Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Wow....very well said by all....I am speachless. Nice Job Kelly STTP Three Bears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAM Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 All good rebuttals. I wonder if he has the balls to reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue er Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 hmm i have 2 sleds which cost over 14000 each when new maintainance costs average 300 per sled unless i crash em insurance an extra 600 a year plus all the clothing accesories the food and beverages i consume when i am out doing my hobbie, not to mention fuel for said sleds and tow vehicle and I am going to bitch about giving away 200 bux so someone can make me a trail to travel on give me a break i have spent 200 bux by the time i reach haliburton at 1 pm and head over to mcquecs for lunch people like you that are causing the trails to get closed in ever increasing numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vectordevil Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 the moron has no clue what it costs !!! my good freind is a groomer for the kawartha lakes club,and i know what things cost and how much hard,hard work and volenteer hours that go into things !!! dam at $200 i think thats an amazing deal,the guys really is that brain dead or he is just spamming the board !!!! cheers guys bring on more snow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeBouch Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 yea thats guys kinda stupid for posting that on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Maybe Dom can look up his I.P.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Well said everyone you left me with nothing to add . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I always thought the two provinces could work together and you would get a discount in Quebec if you had a full season trail permit and vise versa. Some of us ride to quebec and buy gas and food and don't bother with the permit either. I think he has a point, just was very rude how he went about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I remember a few years ago, you could get a discount on the Quebec trail pass if you proved that your sled was insured for liability. Since the Quebec trail pass included liability insurance, you'd get the discount on that, something like $40. I don't know if this rings true today though. Btw, a Quebec trail would have cost $260 by Dec. 9th, after that, $320. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irREVerent Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I remember a few years ago, you could get a discount on the Quebec trail pass if you proved that your sled was insured for liability. Since the Quebec trail pass included liability insurance, you'd get the discount on that, something like $40. I don't know if this rings true today though. Btw, a Quebec trail would have cost $260 by Dec. 9th, after that, $320. Yes, that's still correct...if you buy a full-season permit in Quebec, as a non-resident you can request a refund of the $42 liability insurance component of the total permit cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krusty Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I always thought the two provinces could work together and you would get a discount in Quebec if you had a full season trail permit and vise versa. Some of us ride to quebec and buy gas and food and don't bother with the permit either. I think he has a point, just was very rude how he went about it. The group I ride with have often said it would be cool to be able to buy multi-province permit at a reduced rate. If you think about it if you did live somewhere that 2 provinces were close if you could afford to buy 1 permit but couldn't or didn't want to buy 2 pemits you would have to make a choice each year.I know thats why we don't ride Quebec anymore, with all the great trails we have in Ontario as nice as it would be, just can't justify spending an extra 300? a Quebec permit costs. We have often said a great trip would be to ride from Quebec City, Gaspe Bay Peninsula, New Brunswick and back to Quebec City........but that would be 3 different permits to buy. Don't get me wrong I am a firm believer in you gotta pay to play but if for example you had a multi-province permit that was a bit of a deal how many people would take advantage? Think about it, you have all the people who live near boarders who ultimatly will cheat a litte bit as it is now (lets be realistic)...... and you have guys like I ride with..........who would love to ride new areas (everything is connected anyway) would buy this type of permit. Pay the regular price of a permit for the province you live in then, for say $75.00 add a province! That way for the boarder guys its only $75 extra to be legit in both provinces and guys like me it would drawn back to Quebec/New Brunswick. Odds are you would likley do the vast majority of your riding in your home province anyway (the permit you pay reg price for) but have the option of additional variety in trails in other provinces. This way the province that was getting cheated gets the $75 and if you wanted to do a multi province trip you wouldn't need to have $600 plus tied up in permits. Promotes tourisim in all 3 provinces thats good for everyones economy. Like I said I believe you gotta pay to play but a deal on a multi-province permit I think would generate a lot of extra revenue to each of the province trail associations. I bet if this type of permit was available a ton of people would take advantage of it I know at least 5 guys who would have bought one this year......would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I guess there is more than one school of thought. Each Province and subsequent club has expenses, as ours do. Reduced rate passes do not necessarily account for inflow to support those trail activities and the day to day running of a club and trail system. However, i would rather see some money coming in rather than somebody illegally using a trail system. At least it would be legal. It would be interesting to see some stats on those users such as Krusty and his fellow group sledders. Wonder if a system could be developed that if you were touring from Province to Province and you produced a trail pass from your home Province ( as well as buying a pass from another Province) and you would receive reduced rates on accommodation? The hotel/ motel would be compensated from the Province under tourism dollars. Such a deal could quickly offset the cost of an out of Province pass. The club in which you were riding would still see their permit dollars. It could be a reciprocal agreement. There are oodles of organizations that get reduced rate deals on accommodations and food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 It is the price you have to pay when living on the border Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 yea thats guys kinda stupid for posting that on here The tone leaves a lot to be desired, but I think it is definitely worth discussing. I personally do not feel it is a problem that needs to be solved, but I'm glad he raised the issue, as it obviously is a problem to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 His ignorance is only exceeded by his arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 There once was a combined Quebec/Ontario pass available I believe that Quebec pulled out of the deal. It was only for one year and was not very popular. As for cheap trail section specific passes I find it hard to believe that if people will cheat as this fellow does with no pass why would he be honest on this? The system does not have enough money to function as it is and the volunteers make up to much of the shortfall. This does not solve the problem the cost of sledding is far from just the permit. The trail patrollers have enough to do without checking which permit is for which trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Moose Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Perhaps Kanatarider could get a note from his mother explaining why his brain was absent yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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