psledhead Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 hours ago, SuperG said: Well its simply put, we NEED the provincial and federal governments putting more money into the sport like they do in quebec. I thought with big justin trudeau coming in and being all we need to stimulate the economy with building everything etc, i figured that some money might come our way finally.... guess not Also for the weeks decision to not open trails on their property, IMO is wrong and ignorant! They have been given all info on the bill 100 act etc. An they still are taking this stance now just to be ignorant. most of the businesses in downtown and north of town will suffer cause of this, as well those businesses will not be able to afford improvements on their business hence not being able to get weeks construction to do the work for them so in that I hope it gets back on them and weeks starts to feel the affects of their own doing! I know many may not agree with me especially wildbill, but enough is enough and that is why I am very much against Weeks construction getting the bid to do the trail work on the Seguin trail! Support those that support the sport, not ones that like to hurt the sport and local economy!!!!!!! Couldn't agree more, especially on the bold. I have used them in the past, but never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psledhead Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 hours ago, catinental couch said: Thanks SuperG. That was a world full of information to me because I haven't been able to get to a club meeting to find out any particulars. Certain names in town are very prominent or they think they are. Reaping profits from any organization while stone walling that organizations efforts seem to be more commonplace these days. I am on a fact finding mission but I will keep my nose out of this political fire. Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 A fair tender process was done. The Weeks bid was the best by almost ten grand. How do we justify spending another ten grand? Conversely if you then use the lowest bid to shop for another bid you can never again hold a fair bidding process . Two wrongs do not make a right . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Not being argumentative Bill but $ 10,000.00 may be a drop in the bucket compared to a reroute. In defence of Weeks, properties comparable to their's in this area are completely closed to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, catinental couch said: Not being argumentative Bill but $ 10,000.00 may be a drop in the bucket compared to a reroute. In defence of Weeks, properties comparable to their's in this area are completely closed to the general public. This is an OLA driven closure . We would spend the ten grand and still have to reroute . This way we use the ten grand towards the reroute possibly. In the end it is their land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Wildbill said: A fair tender process was done. The Weeks bid was the best by almost ten grand. How do we justify spending another ten grand? Conversely if you then use the lowest bid to shop for another bid you can never again hold a fair bidding process . Two wrongs do not make a right . If it was my club I would certainly pull the tender from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 24 minutes ago, soupkids said: If it was my club I would certainly pull the tender from them. Then that would likely result in the loss of the grant resulting in the inability to repair the Seguin trail . This improves nothing . It has not been easy to deal with but in the end two wrongs do not make a right. Like it or not is is their land . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I think you could pull the job from the low bidder and not loose the grant but the club would have to come up with the difference between the two bids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 14 minutes ago, soupkids said: I think you could pull the job from the low bidder and not loose the grant but the club would have to come up with the difference between the two bids. 14 minutes ago, soupkids said: I think you could pull the job from the low bidder and not loose the grant but the club would have to come up with the difference between the two bids. That would not be a responsible use of funds to blow ten grand that is so hard to come up with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I agree with Bill on this one. The job was tendered and awarded. It now comes to business ethics and credibility with the others who also bid. If you reject the original tender over sour grapes it does send a message to the other bidders which leaves them open to lose faith in the bid process and credibility. However it does not mean that in future bids you have to invite Weeks to participate. If asked why they were excluded.... "we support those who support us". In future there is a much better process than just submitting a single written bid from various parties and choosing one. Online reverse auctions can drive significant savings. We have used them for years in business and the $ savings between the initial bid and the final cost has been very significant at times. I did one for laptops and PC's and the end result was 20% less than the original bids and the cost variable was less than $10 between the lowest and the highest. Participants are invited at a specific time and date for a 20 or 30 minute online auction. They never see what the others have bid but do see their ranking. A is #1, B is #2 and C is #3. Now they have a chance to sharpen their pencil. B is now ranked #1 C is now #2 and B is now #3. They can keep sharpening that pencil and resubmitting a new bid and seeing where they rank. To prevent someone submitting a bid with seconds to go and assuming that they have a lock on #1 the auction although set to run for say 20 minutes will not close until 5 minutes have lapsed since the most recent bid. Perhaps this could be used in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 51 minutes ago, 02Sled said: I agree with Bill on this one. The job was tendered and awarded. It now comes to business ethics and credibility with the others who also bid. If you reject the original tender over sour grapes it does send a message to the other bidders which leaves them open to lose faith in the bid process and credibility. However it does not mean that in future bids you have to invite Weeks to participate. If asked why they were excluded.... "we support those who support us". In future there is a much better process than just submitting a single written bid from various parties and choosing one. Online reverse auctions can drive significant savings. We have used them for years in business and the $ savings between the initial bid and the final cost has been very significant at times. I did one for laptops and PC's and the end result was 20% less than the original bids and the cost variable was less than $10 between the lowest and the highest. Participants are invited at a specific time and date for a 20 or 30 minute online auction. They never see what the others have bid but do see their ranking. A is #1, B is #2 and C is #3. Now they have a chance to sharpen their pencil. B is now ranked #1 C is now #2 and B is now #3. They can keep sharpening that pencil and resubmitting a new bid and seeing where they rank. To prevent someone submitting a bid with seconds to go and assuming that they have a lock on #1 the auction although set to run for say 20 minutes will not close until 5 minutes have lapsed since the most recent bid. Perhaps this could be used in future. Very interesting idea. Could work for the southern clubs but difficult for the northern clubs. Hell we have even had a hard time getting 3 bids for work we want/need done. Bill is so agree with you on the responsibility of spending funds but man it would tear me up to give $$$$$ to a company that had just cut us off at the knees on a trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 At that price it is likely that they are not making much profit anyhow the bid is less than 30% of the highest bid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupkids Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Wildbill said: At that price it is likely that they are not making much profit anyhow the bid is less than 30% of the highest bid Or the other bidders really didn't want the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinental couch Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I understand all of the points made in the above posts and yes it is their property but I have seen too many times when a forced hand leads to a form of dictatorship that is hard to get out of. Tread very carefully on this one because there is not a preferable outcome to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Am I correct in understanding that the successful bidder on the trail construction, Week's Construction, has also withdrawn their Landowner Permission for this trail or some other trail in the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psledhead Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: Am I correct in understanding that the successful bidder on the trail construction, Week's Construction, has also withdrawn their Landowner Permission for this trail or some other trail in the area? You understand correctly. Other trails in District 10, not this particular trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 20 minutes ago, psledhead said: You understand correctly. Other trails in District 10, not this particular trail. Thank you for confirming this disappointing news. This must be terribly discouraging for the Club Directors and area snowmobilers losing a trail by virtue of a landowner withdrawing permission who is also taking in considerable Trail Permit $$$ by being the successful bidder on a joint OFSC - Club funded project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 26 minutes ago, bbakernbay said: Thank you for confirming this disappointing news. This must be terribly discouraging for the Club Directors and area snowmobilers losing a trail by virtue of a landowner withdrawing permission who is also taking in considerable Trail Permit $$$ by being the successful bidder on a joint OFSC - Club funded project. As Bill pointed out however he is by far the lowest bidder for the Seguin trail work. Whether we consider his concerns around Bill 100 and having a trail on his property as unfounded or not it is his property and the concerns are very real to him. Bottom line is it is his property and he has to look out for his interests. We should be simply saying sorry to see the trail closing however thank you for the years you did allow the trail on your property. Being retaliatory would be an incentive for others to remove permission now and just be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I agree with 02 on this. Any landowner has all the right to use their land as they see fit. If they withdraw permission and we cannot convince them otherwise, then we should be wishing them well, and thanking them for the generous use of their land in the past. And in this case, thanking them additionally for providing a primo quote for trail work on another trail. Just my little old opinion, admittedly formed without knowing all the facts of the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psledhead Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 There are circumstances surrounding this situation that I won't go in to here. It would likely jeopardize any hope of re-opening said trails. Having said that, I am convinced that they will never re-open, hope I'm wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Wild Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Just a question. Who is paying for the Seguin Trail repairs? The Park to Park board or the snowmobile clubs. Do they share expenses and possible revenue? The Park to Park Trail is a trail that is not really a park to park trail as I don't think there is much of a trail to be found from Parry Sound to Killbear Provincial Park . Mostly highway if anything. Is it a trail from Algonquin Park to Bill Parks? Sorry couldn't help myself with that one. I Know Bill Park is heavily involved in both organizations and will likely hear from him and thank him for his involvement. I think I've read that repairs were going to cost $10,000. I haven't seen the washouts but it seems like a lot of money to me. Snowmobilers don't need a flat road bed to ride on so another question is, is the trail being brought back up to grade so a guy on a bicycle doesn't have to go up a hill or are they just installing a culvert or two and covering them over at the bottom of a ditch or washout? A local contractor has equipment and pits in the area of the washouts and I think he has done work on the trail before. If he put in a tender strange he was that much out of line. Sorry if a little off topic from my original post. RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 18 minutes ago, Running Wild said: Just a question. Who is paying for the Seguin Trail repairs? The Park to Park board or the snowmobile clubs. Do they share expenses and possible revenue? The Park to Park Trail is a trail that is not really a park to park trail as I don't think there is much of a trail to be found from Parry Sound to Killbear Provincial Park . Mostly highway if anything. Is it a trail from Algonquin Park to Bill Parks? Sorry couldn't help myself with that one. I Know Bill Park is heavily involved in both organizations and will likely hear from him and thank him for his involvement. I think I've read that repairs were going to cost $10,000. I haven't seen the washouts but it seems like a lot of money to me. Snowmobilers don't need a flat road bed to ride on so another question is, is the trail being brought back up to grade so a guy on a bicycle doesn't have to go up a hill or are they just installing a culvert or two and covering them over at the bottom of a ditch or washout? A local contractor has equipment and pits in the area of the washouts and I think he has done work on the trail before. If he put in a tender strange he was that much out of line. Sorry if a little off topic from my original post. RW Park to Park had a gofundme campaign which I think they did very well with for the repairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 If I recall the washout is enormous. In the range of 30 ft wide or something like that and quite deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake G Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 From ParktoPark website: The Seguin Trail is a main artery trail that travels from Kearney West past Hwy 400. It is used by atv/sxs's, motorcycles, hikers, cyclists, sledders/skiers and dog sleddersIn late August a massive rainstorm washed out two sections of trail. The first was about 20 feet by 12 feet deep, the second was 40 feet by 30 feet deep. This has resulted in a five km road detour. We have been working on repairing but are still about $13000 short for repairs. Any funds raised above the washout repairs will go directly back into the trail starting with grading on some of the bad washboard sections! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 57 minutes ago, Blake G said: From ParktoPark website: The Seguin Trail is a main artery trail that travels from Kearney West past Hwy 400. It is used by atv/sxs's, motorcycles, hikers, cyclists, sledders/skiers and dog sleddersIn late August a massive rainstorm washed out two sections of trail. The first was about 20 feet by 12 feet deep, the second was 40 feet by 30 feet deep. This has resulted in a five km road detour. We have been working on repairing but are still about $13000 short for repairs. Any funds raised above the washout repairs will go directly back into the trail starting with grading on some of the bad washboard sections! Are other user groups contributing to the costs or just OFSC Trail Permit revenue combined with Provincial $$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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