Big Pussy Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I trailered up to the Dinner Bell with a friend and both our sons on Friday night. This was the first time I have been able to get him to go north with me to show him some good trails since there is just no snow down south and we can't get any riding in. We are full season permit holders for four sleds for many years, me for 10 years at least. On Saturday morning we rode A112A to Mattawa for lunch. The trail was good but got worse closer to Mattawa. We returned to the Dinner Bell by A to Nosbonsing, got gas then back to the Motel. The A trail was a diaster from Mattawa to the Bonfield border. From there on it had been groomed and smooth. It looked like the Mattawa end had not been groomed for a week. On Sunday, we were going to go to Temagami but A north was also rough. Instead we went to Temiskaming for lunch and back by Talon Lake. This really limited any loops we could ride and were back tracking. If the free pass weekend was supposed to show new riders how great riding is in Ontario, then I think they would be very disappointed. I don't understand why on this weekend especially there would not be a better effort to keep the main trails in better shape. I doubt many would invest the money needed to go riding next year if this is the trail quality they would expect. I doubt I will be able to get my friend back up with me again. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teener Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 It's unfortunate, this was also our first foray into that area. The trails were beautiful (moguls excepted) so we will give it another try on a regular weekend but the extra traffic didn't do the trail conditions any favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I don't understand why on this weekend especially there would not be a better effort to keep the main trails in better shape. I doubt many would invest the money needed to go riding next year if this is the trail quality they would expect. I doubt I will be able to get my friend back up with me again. BP The clubs were expecting the extra traffic and many spend $$ on extra grooming. Don't blame the club for not doing more, blame the throttle jockeys for tearing up our trails. I have seen far too many piles of snow from someone who cannot control their throttle, or chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The other issue was that we got 25-30 cm of dry snow on Thursday & Friday which really hurt the trails for the weekend. It takes traffic and repeated grooming to knock this snow down so that it does make a good trail. The snow has been so dry this year we really haven't been able to get a great base. Secondly, I have never seen so many groups of throttle jockeys and off trail riders as this year. I was talking to our Groomer Operator on TOP AD and a group came by us and once they got by the groomer everybody was full throttle so much so that you couldn't even see the impressions from the last track, just loose powder caused by a full throttle takeoff for almost a 100 yards. Bottom line is that you, I and everybody else is NOT going to get a great ride on every trail we travel at any particular time. In this new ME World, almost everybody thinks of themselves and don't really appreciate all the factors that go into making a great trail. I know it's frustrating, I was heading to Mattawa on our A112A trail last week just east of NB308 and we turned back as it wasn't worth it and we had other options. I realize on a RAP Tour or similar, there are no options to do that. On Tuesday morning I did TOP D south of Trout Lake to A101D to TOP A and back to Trout Lake. I haven't gone south of Trout Lake in 5 years due to trail conditions but Tuesday it was mint for 95% of the way so you win some and lose some. If you expect 100% on a Family Day Weekend after a 30 cm snow fall then you should consider doing somerthing else on that weekend. No amount of grooming is going to get all the trails in the shape with that traffic, heavy dry snow and rough terrain we have to deal with. Brian - NBSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamahas Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I was also in North Bay on the week end. I had a lot of fun, absolute blast. Many of the trails I thought were in great shape. Considering the traffic and very dry snow I think they clubs I rode did the best they could. I think those who took advantage of the free pass were mostly the extra sleds in the family and they took advantage of it to get everyone out (in this case they would know what trails are typically like) or those that never rode a trail before and are just amazed by the trail system (hopefully). Bonfield had some nice trails and the NB300 i think it was was great. I hear (not sure if its 100% factual) that Mattawa is down to one groomer and something about a single groomer operator can't groom more then 40 hrs a week? Is this true? Thanks to all the clubs, there was a lot of traffic out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Groomer Guy Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 One time I was grooming the D trail, A group of riders came in, slowed down and passed me, they where about 7 sleds and they made so much damage it was like 100 sleds had gone by, they made fast starts and kept on the gas wide open diging the trail, I later turned the groomer around and could see the destruction they had made, every curve they had the Gas wide open, tearingup the trail.... it was awfull... you could barely tell the groomer had been on the trail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Terribly discouraging when you're out there for 8-10 hours and see that kind of careless destruction of a groomed trail. Are you seeing lots of off trail riding Luc, we certainly are, moreso than ever before. I don't mind guys having fun but the be leaving a mess of the groomed trails with multiple crossings, launches, etc. is not fair to to the trail riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Our club groomed Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights..in preparation for and to ensure good trails for the long weekend. All totalled well over 300 hours of grooming over the weekend. Yet..some of the more travelled routes were really torn up. You can't have a groomer on the same trail 24/7 following the jockeys to fix their damage. There was probably over 2000 sleds in and through Haliburton on Saturday to Sunday. Most of which came up the rail line or were fed to the rail line ( B112-9-7 etc) then from the TOPB and up to Eagle, Moose and then the B & E and onto Whitney. Which seems to be a popular choice over the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The other issue was that we got 25-30 cm of dry snow on Thursday & Friday which really hurt the trails for the weekend. It takes traffic and repeated grooming to knock this snow down so that it does make a good trail. The snow has been so dry this year we really haven't been able to get a great base. Secondly, I have never seen so many groups of throttle jockeys and off trail riders as this year. I was talking to our Groomer Operator on TOP AD and a group came by us and once they got by the groomer everybody was full throttle so much so that you couldn't even see the impressions from the last track, just loose powder caused by a full throttle takeoff for almost a 100 yards. Bottom line is that you, I and everybody else is NOT going to get a great ride on every trail we travel at any particular time. In this new ME World, almost everybody thinks of themselves and don't really appreciate all the factors that go into making a great trail. I know it's frustrating, I was heading to Mattawa on our A112A trail last week just east of NB308 and we turned back as it wasn't worth it and we had other options. I realize on a RAP Tour or similar, there are no options to do that. On Tuesday morning I did TOP D south of Trout Lake to A101D to TOP A and back to Trout Lake. I haven't gone south of Trout Lake in 5 years due to trail conditions but Tuesday it was mint for 95% of the way so you win some and lose some. If you expect 100% on a Family Day Weekend after a 30 cm snow fall then you should consider doing somerthing else on that weekend. No amount of grooming is going to get all the trails in the shape with that traffic, heavy dry snow and rough terrain we have to deal with. Brian - NBSC That is the true story. To those who feel that others efforts are not good enough the question should be what is your contribution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucrestyle Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Here is our grooming records for Feb 12th to Feb 18th. during this time period we groomed over 50 hours. All trails were groomed prior the weekend, I personally groomed A112A north to Mica Mine (12hr shift) Saturday evening, Groomer went back out for (24hr shift) on Sunday afternoon to do south portion of A112A and the entire A trail. Our new groomer has over 400 hours on it now and as I type it is out Grooming TOP A. I don't have much to add, Brian from NBSC provided all the info, and I am going to focus my efforts on positive things rather then educating a few snowmobilers on the challenges of maintaining trail to meet each individuals standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 To those who feel that others efforts are not good enough the question should be what is your contribution? My contribution was brushing trails, painting stakes, and driving stakes through farmers fields until I had two tennis elbows at once that took over a year to get rid of. And it comes back real easy now. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-man800 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 The clubs were expecting the extra traffic and many spend $$ on extra grooming. Don't blame the club for not doing more, blame the throttle jockeys for tearing up our trails. I have seen far too many piles of snow from someone who cannot control their throttle, or chose not to. ITS THE CLUB IN MATTAWA NOT GROOMING, I WAS UP THERE AND SEEN THE SAME CONDITIONS,,,,,,,DIDNT SEE ONE THROTTLE JOCKEY EITHER THERE BUD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x-man800 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 One time I was grooming the D trail, A group of riders came in, slowed down and passed me, they where about 7 sleds and they made so much damage it was like 100 sleds had gone by, they made fast starts and kept on the gas wide open diging the trail, I later turned the groomer around and could see the destruction they had made, every curve they had the Gas wide open, tearingup the trail.... it was awfull... you could barely tell the groomer had been on the trail... Thats the way it is when boys are paying $210 per trail pass,,,,,,all seven of thoes guy payed to rip it up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domino Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thats the way it is when boys are paying $210 per trail pass,,,,,,all seven of thoes guy payed to rip it up lol If anyone thinks that paying $210 for a Trail pass gives you some entitlement to rip up trails or endager other riders they are sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 One time I was grooming the D trail, A group of riders came in, slowed down and passed me, they where about 7 sleds and they made so much damage it was like 100 sleds had gone by, they made fast starts and kept on the gas wide open diging the trail, I later turned the groomer around and could see the destruction they had made, every curve they had the Gas wide open, tearingup the trail.... it was awfull... you could barely tell the groomer had been on the trail... and those same riders will be the first and most vocal to complain about the lousy trail conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thats the way it is when boys are paying $210 per trail pass,,,,,,all seven of thoes guy payed to rip it up lol isn't that special! and the next hundred riders that got the remains diid too. Share the trail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thats the way it is when boys are paying $210 per trail pass,,,,,,all seven of thoes guy payed to rip it up lol I paid $260 for my second pass does that mean I should get better trails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techdenis007 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 The other issue was that we got 25-30 cm of dry snow on Thursday & Friday which really hurt the trails for the weekend. It takes traffic and repeated grooming to knock this snow down so that it does make a good trail. The snow has been so dry this year we really haven't been able to get a great base. Secondly, I have never seen so many groups of throttle jockeys and off trail riders as this year. I was talking to our Groomer Operator on TOP AD and a group came by us and once they got by the groomer everybody was full throttle so much so that you couldn't even see the impressions from the last track, just loose powder caused by a full throttle takeoff for almost a 100 yards. Bottom line is that you, I and everybody else is NOT going to get a great ride on every trail we travel at any particular time. In this new ME World, almost everybody thinks of themselves and don't really appreciate all the factors that go into making a great trail. I know it's frustrating, I was heading to Mattawa on our A112A trail last week just east of NB308 and we turned back as it wasn't worth it and we had other options. I realize on a RAP Tour or similar, there are no options to do that. On Tuesday morning I did TOP D south of Trout Lake to A101D to TOP A and back to Trout Lake. I haven't gone south of Trout Lake in 5 years due to trail conditions but Tuesday it was mint for 95% of the way so you win some and lose some. If you expect 100% on a Family Day Weekend after a 30 cm snow fall then you should consider doing somerthing else on that weekend. No amount of grooming is going to get all the trails in the shape with that traffic, heavy dry snow and rough terrain we have to deal with. Brian - NBSC Well said Brian, thank you. One time I was grooming the D trail, A group of riders came in, slowed down and passed me, they where about 7 sleds and they made so much damage it was like 100 sleds had gone by, they made fast starts and kept on the gas wide open diging the trail, I later turned the groomer around and could see the destruction they had made, every curve they had the Gas wide open, tearingup the trail.... it was awfull... you could barely tell the groomer had been on the trail... Same thing up here, always the rich parents' high school kids whippin' the piss out of the trails. You couldn't pack a trail hard enough for them to not wreck it. They just don't give a crap. And I won't even get into the stupid kids that pass us at 120 with their cans screaming, while we've got 2 kids in a Ski-Boose doing 50 ..... Thats the way it is when boys are paying $210 per trail pass,,,,,,all seven of thoes guy payed to rip it up lol Obviously you're one of them. Get another hobby that doesn't frig it up for the rest of us, or hurry up and wrap yourself around a tree somewhere and put yourself out of your misery. Arrogant bxxxxxd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 It's the "after me..you come first attitude". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I trailered up to the Dinner Bell with a friend and both our sons on Friday night. This was the first time I have been able to get him to go north with me to show him some good trails since there is just no snow down south and we can't get any riding in. We are full season permit holders for four sleds for many years, me for 10 years at least. On Saturday morning we rode A112A to Mattawa for lunch. The trail was good but got worse closer to Mattawa. We returned to the Dinner Bell by A to Nosbonsing, got gas then back to the Motel. The A trail was a diaster from Mattawa to the Bonfield border. From there on it had been groomed and smooth. It looked like the Mattawa end had not been groomed for a week. On Sunday, we were going to go to Temagami but A north was also rough. Instead we went to Temiskaming for lunch and back by Talon Lake. This really limited any loops we could ride and were back tracking. If the free pass weekend was supposed to show new riders how great riding is in Ontario, then I think they would be very disappointed. I don't understand why on this weekend especially there would not be a better effort to keep the main trails in better shape. I doubt many would invest the money needed to go riding next year if this is the trail quality they would expect. I doubt I will be able to get my friend back up with me again. BP That's funny, we did the exact same rides (Mattawa and Temiskaming) on the same days with the TY group from North Bay. Everyone was complaining about Mattawa and after reading the replies here I see there are reasons for it. All I can say though is that the traffic was much lighter than I expected for the free weekend and the trail looked like it was in Sunday afternoon condition on a Saturday morning. Must have been the 'Perfect Storm' for bad trails up there....or maybe they needed a storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokeater466 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 ITS THE CLUB IN MATTAWA NOT GROOMING, I WAS UP THERE AND SEEN THE SAME CONDITIONS,,,,,,,DIDNT SEE ONE THROTTLE JOCKEY EITHER THERE BUD With that statement you just blew your credibility out the window. I havent gone on a ride in the past several years where i don't see several throttle jockeys chewing up the trail, wide on the corners with little regard for other users. You just saw an explanation above of the grooming that was done. It doesnt take much to chew up a trail especially if the snow isnt packing well and there is heavy use. You are not going to have perfect conditions on a holiday weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pussy Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Here is our grooming records for Feb 12th to Feb 18th. during this time period we groomed over 50 hours. All trails were groomed prior the weekend, I personally groomed A112A north to Mica Mine (12hr shift) Saturday evening, Groomer went back out for (24hr shift) on Sunday afternoon to do south portion of A112A and the entire A trail. Our new groomer has over 400 hours on it now and as I type it is out Grooming TOP A. I don't have much to add, Brian from NBSC provided all the info, and I am going to focus my efforts on positive things rather then educating a few snowmobilers on the challenges of maintaining trail to meet each individuals standards. Just as I suspected. Groomed on the Sunday near midnight. We went home Monday morning. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLNYTRO Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 I paid $260 for my second pass does that mean I should get better trails? Hahaha Good one.... I guess I should be able to ride extra fast in Quebec then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Well said Brian, thank you. Same thing up here, always the rich parents' high school kids whippin' the piss out of the trails. You couldn't pack a trail hard enough for them to not wreck it. They just don't give a crap. And I won't even get into the stupid kids that pass us at 120 with their cans screaming, while we've got 2 kids in a Ski-Boose doing 50 ..... Obviously you're one of them. Get another hobby that doesn't frig it up for the rest of us, or hurry up and wrap yourself around a tree somewhere and put yourself out of your misery. Arrogant bxxxxxd. It will likely happen sooner or later. Too bad they probably won't learn anything with their sled wrapped around a tree and want to blame somebody else like the club for their own stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLNYTRO Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 It will likely happen sooner or later. Too bad they probably won't learn anything with their sled wrapped around a tree and want to blame somebody else like the club for their own stupidity. And then of course want to sue the clubs' insurance for personal injury.... Then of course permit prices will rise yet again.... Bah... Go find a lake somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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