Canuck Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 With the advent of Internet Trail Pass purchases, I'm wondering if there's something missing in the snowmobiling 'experience'. In year's past, I'd drive up to a local dealer, buy a trail permit, talk about the season ahead, etc. I might head up with a buddy, tell family and friends where I was going for the day, there may be another customer in the store... basically, the whole process involved people who spread the word about OFSC and its trails. Now, the purchase process is moving towards an end user (who knows about the process) likely buying online before December 1st. And then there's a gap ...... an insular purchase before December 1st and then 'nothing'. No snow, little communication from OFSC (no bashing - it's just that the email information has been provided, but not really utilized) and, this year, not a single club mailing. If you want the opposite experience, buy a 5 day lift pass from Whistler. Once. In 2009. To this day, I receive updates about pre-season opportunities, post-season purchases, etc. A few might say "permit purchasers elect not to receive info.", "we're not allowed by MTO to email", etc. All true. However, other activities are reaching us. And we're not even current customers (to use my 2009 example). I have this feeling that ridership would increase if there was more communication between the "Buy before December 1st" rush and the pall that sets in after. Bit of a ramble, but one has 'deep thoughts' when putting away this year's trail maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I have never purchased a permit online, yet share in your sentiment that something is missing. We used to be excited about the future of the sport. I remember when the REV came out, and some amazing models from other manufacturers shortly thereafter. It was like a brand new world. The sky was the limit. The sport could become anything we wanted. Nine short years later and we're trying tightly grasp the last remaining pieces of the organization in hopes to not lose anymore. We're afraid to move forward. When I joined this forum, we'd often get together and do awesome things. Now we spend our time arguing why we should refrain from doing anything at all. Something changed, but I think it is much more fundamental than how permits are sold. The deep collective love for the sport is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Well my “deep collective love of this sport” is not gone and the only "deep thoughts" I have are wishing i had more time to ride this season and looking forward to next season. I have always purchased my permit by fax/online from the northern club we do 100 % of our riding ever sense my dad stopped selling them when he was a club member. I see the OFSC doing more promotion of the sport now than ever before. Like every other from of recreation there are those who try it for a few years then want to try something else and those who have always been and always will be part of the sport (like me)! Years ago we would go to the dealer in the fall to have the machines serviced, chat with the guys there about the sport and industry news, now I do 99% of the yearly service work myself so I lost that “communication” from years ago. However this website is really fantastic and the people on here all seem to all have the same love of the sport and the communication is always current with every opinion imaginable. Just glad to be part of the community! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slomo Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Bit of a ramble, but one has 'deep thoughts' when putting away this year's trail maps True.....I found myself thinking ....you know, if the British had not expelled the Acadians from Canada's Maritime provinces back in the 1700's, we wouldn't have the 'Swamp People' or 'Cajun Pawn Stars' television programs..... Wish someone would put those hapless, know-nothing, Alaskan Gold Rush people out of their misery...maybe expell them from 'The Klondike' which is in actual fact Canada's Yukon territory.... So, Canuck, why not spend some time reviewing your sledding adventures of the past season with the forum..? Pictures are always nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I love swamp people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 With the advent of Internet Trail Pass purchases, I'm wondering if there's something missing in the snowmobiling 'experience'. In year's past, I'd drive up to a local dealer, buy a trail permit, talk about the season ahead, etc. I might head up with a buddy, tell family and friends where I was going for the day, there may be another customer in the store... basically, the whole process involved people who spread the word about OFSC and its trails. Now, the purchase process is moving towards an end user (who knows about the process) likely buying online before December 1st. And then there's a gap ...... an insular purchase before December 1st and then 'nothing'. No snow, little communication from OFSC (no bashing - it's just that the email information has been provided, but not really utilized) and, this year, not a single club mailing. If you want the opposite experience, buy a 5 day lift pass from Whistler. Once. In 2009. To this day, I receive updates about pre-season opportunities, post-season purchases, etc. A few might say "permit purchasers elect not to receive info.", "we're not allowed by MTO to email", etc. All true. However, other activities are reaching us. And we're not even current customers (to use my 2009 example). I have this feeling that ridership would increase if there was more communication between the "Buy before December 1st" rush and the pall that sets in after. Bit of a ramble, but one has 'deep thoughts' when putting away this year's trail maps Not being able to email people is news to me. Under PIPEDA any organization who collects customer information must disclose what that information will be used for. They must also have a privacy officer. While I have not purchased online one would expect that there would be disclosure about what the information would be used for and the purchaser would have to accept those terms and acknowledge that. Also does the online process not have the same option as the paper form to provide your information for volunteering. Electronic distribution could improve relations and drive costs down at the same time. Almost all of my industry journals etc. that I receive are now sent electronically rather than hard copy and I print the pages I want to keep. Some of those magazines I receive today as part of the OFSC permit acquisition could be sent electronically. So now the dumb question. If we can send everyone the magazines and the MTO isn't concerned why can't we send email. Everyone keeps referencing snowmobile clubs. The clubs for the most part seem to be a small handfull of people that go out, build and maintain trails or have bbq's to raise money. Do you think we would engage more people if we made it more of a club with more social activities to engage the permit buyers and give them a sense of belonging. In our area they have the Wed. Wanderers. That essentially excludes anyone who isn't retired. I have taken the occasional Wed off and it did two things. First and most important I felt young again since everyone was older than me. Actually most important was the sense of comradery and then the fun of riding as a group. I have often thought to try and do similar on a Saturday however unfortunately the weather has not really cooperated. These types of things would engage more people and from that perhaps you get more volunteers. If you do it's a bonus. Or even a group trailer the sleds to event would achieve the same. I have found some who don't like to go outside their comfort zone and explore alone but in a group it would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrummage Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I like buying my permit at the sled show. I've met a lot of OC'ers that way. I couldn't make it this year so I bought it on line. Not as much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Well my “deep collective love of this sport” is not gone Collectives are not one person or even small groups. :P There's no doubt that islands of people still love the sport as much as ever, but that isn't really what I was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Collectives are not one person or even small groups. :P There's no doubt that islands of people still love the sport as much as ever, but that isn't really what I was talking about. thanks for pointing that out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Most snowmobile clubs that sell 400 permits or more cannot possibly be equated with a major ski resort with respect to the personal touch you expect when buying your OFSC Trail Permit. It isn't possible for various reasaons, primarily because we place Trail Permits for sale at many locations, and those employees cannot possibly be knowledgeable about our Club's trails. How many ski resorts sell their passes at the local lottery outlet, motels, accountant's office, restaurants or Canadian Tire like we do. Your expecting a lot if you do. Our theory is to give them a daily update on conditions, routes, services, etc. via our Club website, Facebook & Twitter and SPOT GPS to track live our 3 groomers. Conditions change so much that no matter what someone tells you on the day you buy your permit, really has not too much relevance a month or so later. Your buying a piece of paper for heaven's sake from someone who has volunteered their business to help the Club. Don't expect it to be more than it is. Just like renewing your Vehicles MTO Driver's Licence or plates, etc. Fill out the form, lay down your plastic and be on your way is the most you should expect not an "experience" that you will treasure for the rest of the season. Co Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Just my gut feeling, and not an 'expectation'. The gut feeling is that new riders are not 'getting the message' that organized trails exist, and existing customers are actually getting less information. Actually not a forum topic ... I'll put away the maps quietly next time, lol. ______________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The gut feeling is that new riders are not 'getting the message' that organized trails exist Honestly, I wonder what incentive there is for new riders? Is some guy sitting in his apartment in downtown Toronto who sees a ski-doo commercial on TV going to think "gee, that looks like fun. I'm going to drive eight hours north by myself next weekend and give that a try"? I find it highly unlikely. I believe that everyone here will tell you they got excited about the sport because of the community. The actual snowmobiles, while fun, were just a good reason to congregate. Something to do with your buddies and meet some new buddies along the way. That's what I feel is gone. You can see it in the posts on this forum even. There has become an "us vs. them" mentality. I really like the term you used in your original post: Insular. I think that describes the problem quite well. Those who have their tight-nit groups are fine and happy, but there is a new reluctance to branch out that wasn't there even a decade ago, by my observations. I don't think anyone is to blame. It's probably just a sign that the sport is starting to grow up. By the way, I think it was a great post. May we find many more from your map folding adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Canuck... you actually save your maps one year to the next? Mine all go for recycle so that I have a need to go to the sled show and visit the district booths and the people in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 I kept the Guides for the areas I visited this year. The rest were recycled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sledguy74 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Getting the new maps is the main reason we go to the show too lol Well and maybe to gawk at the amsoil girls!!!! And any MILFs walking around. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Getting the new maps is the main reason we go to the show too lol Well and maybe to gawk at the amsoil girls!!!! Are those floatation devices or were you born that way ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowTouringGuy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I kept the Guides for the areas I visited this year. The rest were recycled. It's important to keep maps from one year to the next. Old ones fill in for the new ones that weren't available. Next year is the time to cull and recycle. Let's not be presumptuous and discard valuable information that may not be in supply next year. That, and map advertisers don't necessarily repeat. I don't care if I need NO maps, Amsoil girls, Tekvest models, MILFS and 5 dollar hand jobs in the Exhibit Hall B mens' room always drag me back to the big SHOW !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Just my gut feeling, and not an 'expectation'. The gut feeling is that new riders are not 'getting the message' that organized trails exist, and existing customers are actually getting less information. Actually not a forum topic ... I'll put away the maps quietly next time, lol. ______________________________________ Not all is lost, my daughter is estatic about getting her licence. Just ask her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 That's great news, Mossy. They're so proud when the license is issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not all is lost, my daughter is estatic about getting her licence. Just ask her! That's great.... so now you need to buy an extra sled... and then it won't be long until she is on the newer better sled and you are on the older one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not all is lost, my daughter is estatic about getting her licence. Just ask her! That is great, Mossy! Pass on my congratulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutter Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Not being able to email people is news to me. Under PIPEDA any organization who collects customer information must disclose what that information will be used for. They must also have a privacy officer. While I have not purchased online one would expect that there would be disclosure about what the information would be used for and the purchaser would have to accept those terms and acknowledge that. Also does the online process not have the same option as the paper form to provide your information for volunteering. Electronic distribution could improve relations and drive costs down at the same time. Almost all of my industry journals etc. that I receive are now sent electronically rather than hard copy and I print the pages I want to keep. Some of those magazines I receive today as part of the OFSC permit acquisition could be sent electronically. So now the dumb question. If we can send everyone the magazines and the MTO isn't concerned why can't we send email. Everyone keeps referencing snowmobile clubs. The clubs for the most part seem to be a small handfull of people that go out, build and maintain trails or have bbq's to raise money. Do you think we would engage more people if we made it more of a club with more social activities to engage the permit buyers and give them a sense of belonging. In our area they have the Wed. Wanderers. That essentially excludes anyone who isn't retired. I have taken the occasional Wed off and it did two things. First and most important I felt young again since everyone was older than me. Actually most important was the sense of comradery and then the fun of riding as a group. I have often thought to try and do similar on a Saturday however unfortunately the weather has not really cooperated. These types of things would engage more people and from that perhaps you get more volunteers. If you do it's a bonus. Or even a group trailer the sleds to event would achieve the same. I have found some who don't like to go outside their comfort zone and explore alone but in a group it would be different. Gary only those who checked the member benefits box on the permit application receive the mags and/or any other form of communication, OFSC clubs are the selling agent for the MTO who owns the permit, the OFSC/Clubs/Districts/Associations cannot contact them without the buyers permission to do so. Same goes for the outlets that sell permits for clubs, they cannot use that info for their mailing list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 That's great news, Mossy. They're so proud when the license is issued. Especially when its her daddy that teaches the course! That's great.... so now you need to buy an extra sled... and then it won't be long until she is on the newer better sled and you are on the older one... I am looking for one right now. currently she has a 1982 txl indy but she deserves something better. I've watched her drive my sleds for a couple years now That is great, Mossy! Pass on my congratulations. Not yet but too soon she will be 12! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Gary only those who checked the member benefits box on the permit application receive the mags and/or any other form of communication, OFSC clubs are the selling agent for the MTO who owns the permit, the OFSC/Clubs/Districts/Associations cannot contact them without the buyers permission to do so. Same goes for the outlets that sell permits for clubs, they cannot use that info for their mailing list. Rick... I understand the nature of the PIPEDA legislation and that anyone collecting that information must disclose what will be done with it. Taken from the permit application form on the OFSC website. By signing where specified below, I would like to access applicable OFSC Benefits and Offers. The OFSC values your privacy and the protection of your personal information. By authorizing the release of the name and address information as indicated below, I consent to the OFSC’s use of this information for purposes related to the mandate of the OFSC ( www.ofsc.on.ca). I further understand that any information provided to the OFSC is out of the custody and control of the Ministry of Transportation and that the OFSC will have sole responsibility of the information. Please complete the following information: If someone fills in their email address below there, that to me is giving permission to communication between the OFSC and the applicant for snowmobile related information. I have heard that the Clubs are the OFSC so therefore the clubs should be able to send out snowmobile related information. That is related to the mandate of the OFSC. Does that mandate not include educating and informing sledders of snowmobile related news and events. Of course that would not be advertising commercial ventures but may include club social activities. I really don't think that is out of scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Otherwise why would the OFSC & MTO even put the space for the e-mail address if the law says you can't contact them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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