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WeBeSleddin

How late will Snowcrest Groom 2014?

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I don't know about Baysville but I do know that Orillia got their grooming done before the minus 24 on Sunday night resulting in a nice set-up.

Unless 2b posts otherwise, apparently the 3 groomers are not going out tonight so a run in Snowcrest country may not meet your expectations.

STG is correct. After discussions today with our groomer operator that was out last night and our Board, we will not be grooming tonight. With almost double grooming hours this season compared to our 4 year average. Hate to say it, but this may be it for the season. Will post at a later date to confirm. 

Edited by 2bsledding

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Road sections are lost for the season.

 

Lakes are good right now.

 

I was on parts of D today, and on C101D yesterday, and they are not too bad, assuming you can figure out how to get to them without running pavement.

 

There is very little sled traffic.

 

There would be no point in grooming unless we get a return to snow and cold after this thaw, which is unlikely.

 

Nobody can complain, it has been a great winter.

 

Thank you to the dedicated Snowcrest personnel ! !

Edited by Blake G

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I don't know about Baysville but I do know that Orillia got their grooming done before the minus 24 on Sunday night resulting in a nice set-up.

Unless 2b posts otherwise, apparently the 3 groomers are not going out tonight so a run in Snowcrest country may not meet your expectations.

Tall Pines and ASC haven't groomed the majority of their trails since thursday. Baysville grommed saturday night 

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STG is correct. After discussions today with our groomer operator that was out last night and our Board, we will not be grooming tonight. With almost double grooming hours this season compared to our 4 year average. Hate to say it, but this may be it for the season. Will post at a later date to confirm. 

 

Thanks for the heads up STG. 

 

2BSledding, I sense that you are on the fence about this. 

 

Can anyone confirm the current conditions of the trails?  Was out last tuesday with my son and the Orillia and Baysville trails were mint.  They have both been groomed again since, at least once.  The snowcrest trails in between were decent, but had seen a lot of sled travel since their last grooming.  From what I can gather, the last time that the snowcrest trails were groomed East of highway 11 was the end of March break, maybe the 14th?

 

The area is still experiencing mid winter conditions, spring won't even show its head until Friday, and the nights over the next 2 weeks will be below zero.

 

 

Sure would be nice to get the Snowcrest trails - the best trails in Ontario in my opinion - done one last time so that the inevitable light traffic over the coming weeks (or month) would be smooth as silk for riders who know how to get around the road running. 

 

Don't know if this is the most prudent time (or season) to be worrying about hourly grooming averages.  Maybe that is best left to July when you are planning for next year?

 

If it is possible to groom, I say groom.

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Edited by WeBeSleddin

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Our most experienced Groomer Operator went out Monday night and groomed C101D, with the lack of snow lately and the warmer days and colder nights he managed to ice up a couple of the hills.  Although they are calling for 5-10cm of the white stuff, it is to change rain.  By taking out the heavy equipment, it will do more harm than good at this time.  Looking at the long range forecast, we have mild temperatures during the day and colder at night, this will help with a slow melt and the trails that are deep in the bush probably will not be as affected as the trails that are getting the full effect of the sun.  We will be changing our trail status to Limited Availability tomorrow and the equipment will be put into summer mode before the weekend. It is always difficult at the end of the season to make the call when to stop grooming as we always want the best trails available, this year is no different except that it has been a much longer season.  The lakes have reportedly 2.5-3 feet of ice on them, but with the milder temperatures how long will they last? The safety of our Volunteers is paramount, we don't want to take the stakes off too soon but can't wait until it is too late. As our Groomer Operators are experienced, we always take their opinion into account as to when it's time for the "fat lady to sing".   

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Our most experienced Groomer Operator went out Monday night and groomed C101D, with the lack of snow lately and the warmer days and colder nights he managed to ice up a couple of the hills.  Although they are calling for 5-10cm of the white stuff, it is to change rain.  By taking out the heavy equipment, it will do more harm than good at this time.  Looking at the long range forecast, we have mild temperatures during the day and colder at night, this will help with a slow melt and the trails that are deep in the bush probably will not be as affected as the trails that are getting the full effect of the sun.  We will be changing our trail status to Limited Availability tomorrow and the equipment will be put into summer mode before the weekend. It is always difficult at the end of the season to make the call when to stop grooming as we always want the best trails available, this year is no different except that it has been a much longer season.  The lakes have reportedly 2.5-3 feet of ice on them, but with the milder temperatures how long will they last? The safety of our Volunteers is paramount, we don't want to take the stakes off too soon but can't wait until it is too late. As our Groomer Operators are experienced, we always take their opinion into account as to when it's time for the "fat lady to sing".   

Appreciate the update and the great trails all season.  Know you have lots of factors at play.

 

Trailering north.  Still weeks of fun to be had.

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Appreciate the update and the great trails all season.  Know you have lots of factors at play.

 

Trailering north.  Still weeks of fun to be had.

 

 

Our most experienced Groomer Operator went out Monday night and groomed C101D, with the lack of snow lately and the warmer days and colder nights he managed to ice up a couple of the hills.  Although they are calling for 5-10cm of the white stuff, it is to change rain.  By taking out the heavy equipment, it will do more harm than good at this time.  Looking at the long range forecast, we have mild temperatures during the day and colder at night, this will help with a slow melt and the trails that are deep in the bush probably will not be as affected as the trails that are getting the full effect of the sun.  We will be changing our trail status to Limited Availability tomorrow and the equipment will be put into summer mode before the weekend. It is always difficult at the end of the season to make the call when to stop grooming as we always want the best trails available, this year is no different except that it has been a much longer season.  The lakes have reportedly 2.5-3 feet of ice on them, but with the milder temperatures how long will they last? The safety of our Volunteers is paramount, we don't want to take the stakes off too soon but can't wait until it is too late. As our Groomer Operators are experienced, we always take their opinion into account as to when it's time for the "fat lady to sing".   

 

On second thought, Sometimes I like to say things the way I see them.

 

I have to admit I am a bit surprised and mildly frustrated that Snowcrest would have let the trails get to the condition they are currently in during such an amazing season.  Spoke to a good friend who rode D in to Kahshe from Gravenhurst yesterday evening who said the trail was all bumps the whole way.  He took the old route back to Gravenhurst up Three Mile to Silver and Gull to get back.

 

If you look at the vast majority of trails at the end of season across Ontario, they are hard packed, sometimes icy in the corners and big hills but almost always TABLE TOP SMOOTH.  This is a direct result of the clubs grooming late season, when the traffic has slowed down, and letting the trails deteriorate slowly through the early sping season - which has not yet really started.  

 

For those in the know, this is the best time to ride.  

 

Snowcrest's Trails east of HWY 11 are really rough, simply becuase they haven't been groomed in 2 weeks.  Perhaps the nicest weeks of the season to ride as weather is warmer and predictable. There has been no rain, sub zero temps, and it has snowed 3 or 4 times during that period.

 

As you have said, there is still close to 3 feet of ice on the lakes.  There is also 2 feet of snowpack at least and probably a good foot or so of solid base on the trails.  Lying on top of that base is fresh snow - a hard to come by commodity this time of year, and in some seasons hard to find at all.

 

Today, you are making the trails Limited only because you chose not to groom them for the past 2 weeks, not because they are bare, and water has opened up etc., the typical reasons for making trails limited in the spring.  Trails that run roads, limited or closed I understand, the march sun can wreak havoc.

 

I started this thread a month or so ago because I truly believed that snowcrest would be the last to throw in the towel on grooming, and I have learned the opposite is true, probably the first club in Muskoka to call it quits this year, which is disappointing. 

 

I live in Toronto, and sled out of Orillia, but I buy my permits through snowcrest as I think the club has done an amazing job over the years.  I might reconsider next year.  ODSC has been doing a wonderful job this year.  

 

2BSledding, I vote for one more pass of the system this evening before you put the groomers away for the summer.  I think you owe it to your permit holders and your amazing volunteers who ride your trails the most.  Maybe even you might get out for another smooth ride or two.  Unfortunately, I don't get a vote.

 

Some may take the comments in this post as rude, or ungrateful, and for that I apologize.  I am really a nice person, with a bad back, who likes to ride on smooth trails.     

 

It is after all still Winter out there...

 

Check out Doktorc's pic of the seguin groomed yesterday morning.  Shouldn't snowcrest's trails look like this if the other clubs in the area are making it happen?

post-20239-0-82734800-1395947461_thumb.jpg

Edited by WeBeSleddin

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On second thought, Sometimes I like to say things the way I see them.

 

I have to admit I am a bit surprised and mildly frustrated that Snowcrest would have let the trails get to the condition they are currently in during such an amazing season.  Spoke to a good friend who rode D in to Kahshe from Gravenhurst yesterday evening who said the trail was all bumps the whole way.  He took the old route back to Gravenhurst up Three Mile to Silver and Gull to get back.

 

If you look at the vast majority of trails at the end of season across Ontario, they are hard packed, sometimes icy in the corners and big hills but almost always TABLE TOP SMOOTH.  This is a direct result of the clubs grooming late season, when the traffic has slowed down, and letting the trails deteriorate slowly through the early sping season - which has not yet really started.  

 

For those in the know, this is the best time to ride.  

 

Snowcrest's Trails east of HWY 11 are really rough, simply becuase they haven't been groomed in 2 weeks.  Perhaps the nicest weeks of the season to ride as weather is warmer and predictable. There has been no rain, sub zero temps, and it has snowed 3 or 4 times during that period.

 

As you have said, there is still close to 3 feet of ice on the lakes.  There is also 2 feet of snowpack at least and probably a good foot or so of solid base on the trails.  Lying on top of that base is fresh snow - a hard to come by commodity this time of year, and in some seasons hard to find at all.

 

Today, you are making the trails Limited only because you chose not to groom them for the past 2 weeks, not because they are bare, and water has opened up etc., the typical reasons for making trails limited in the spring.  Trails that run roads, limited or closed I understand, the march sun can wreak havoc.

 

I started this thread a month or so ago because I truly believed that snowcrest would be the last to throw in the towel on grooming, and I have learned the opposite is true, probably the first club in Muskoka to call it quits this year, which is disappointing. 

 

I live in Toronto, and sled out of Orillia, but I buy my permits through snowcrest as I think the club has done an amazing job over the years.  I might reconsider next year.  ODSC has been doing a wonderful job this year.  

 

2BSledding, I vote for one more pass of the system this evening before you put the groomers away for the summer.  I think you owe it to your permit holders and your amazing volunteers who ride your trails the most.  Maybe even you might get out for another smooth ride or two.  Unfortunately, I don't get a vote.

 

Some may take the comments in this post as rude, or ungrateful, and for that I apologize.  I am really a nice person, with a bad back, who likes to ride on smooth trails.     

 

It is after all still Winter out there...

 

Check out Doktorc's pic of the seguin groomed yesterday morning.  Shouldn't snowcrest's trails look like this if the other clubs in the area are making it happen?

2 comments for you.

1. The clubs operate like a business and have to operate within their allotted share of permit dollars and groom while it is safe and sensible to do so. It doesn't mean they don't want to groom, it means that the club executive have made the best decision based on the available information and circumstances.

2. You should consider getting involved in the club so that you can learn how & why the above type of decisions are made.

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1. The clubs operate like a business and have to operate within their allotted share of permit dollars and groom while it is safe and sensible to do so. It doesn't mean they don't want to groom, it means that the club executive have made the best decision based on the available information and circumstances.

 

 

Yes they do operate as a business. 

 

As such, people would much prefer a business answer such as, "we've run out of money" than the blow smoke "the safety of our volunteers is paramount" when explaining why the groomers are being put away for the season.  Not put aside for the week, but being put away for the season.  I'm thinking that "our most experienced groomer operator" would prefer to be paid for a few more runs than being laid off so I would also suggest not using him as an excuse either. 

 

WeBe is right, nothing has been touched on the east side of 11 for two weeks. Other Clubs groomed on this Saturday night and Sunday night past to take advantage of the cold nights and set their trails up for the week.  I'm sure we would have done that too.  but.......We are out of money.  And this upcoming weather is a wonderful opportunity to bail.  Even if we have a 4 week return of cold weather and snow, the decision has been made to shut down for the season.  There is no money. 

 

There is nothing shameful about saying that.  And, despite the disappointment of trail closure, it is a much more understandable reason to the permit buying customer than "there is 3 feet of ice on the lake and we don't know how long it will last".

 

This is not a criticism of Snowcrest shutting down operations, but it is a commentary on how OFSC obfuscation is finding its way into club communications.

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SCR seems to be in a hurry at the start of the season to be the first to have "Green" trails.

 

Maybe waiting and saving some funds at the start of the season there would be some money left over to finish out the best riding time of the season.

 

The trails were great in Port Sydney, Baysville, Dorset and Dwight today. Best ride of the year. A huge thumbs up to those Clubs. Most trails were freshly groomed in the last day or so. 

 

Trail 66 is to die for.

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Thank you to Snowcrest volunteers, staff and executive for the countless hours of your time during this extended season. I really appreciate everything you have given to us, and wish you all the best. It has been a real pleasure enjoying the excellent trails this winter.

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You are most welcome ! We do it because we love the sport.

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 I ride out of Port Severn on the Baxter trails and from there venture onto SMART, MLSTA, ODSC, Georgian Bay, Snowcrest and others but they are the most often traveled. I saw instances where due to heavy early and continuous snowfall early season groomer runs that should have taken 3 hours took 10 or more.  

 

I ventured further this year into Snowcrest territory than I ever have before thanks to the great reports I heard here from others on where they had ridden and the fact that as I rode into Snowcrest trails they were simply top notch and just stayed that way enticing me to keep riding further. My wife rode with me this year much more than she has in recent years simply due to the trail conditions.

 

So... to Snowcrest first since this is their forum, and all the other clubs trails I rode this year. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! for likely the best conditions I can remember and the longest season I can remember.

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Yes they do operate as a business. 

 

As such, people would much prefer a business answer such as, "we've run out of money" than the blow smoke "the safety of our volunteers is paramount" when explaining why the groomers are being put away for the season.  Not put aside for the week, but being put away for the season.  I'm thinking that "our most experienced groomer operator" would prefer to be paid for a few more runs than being laid off so I would also suggest not using him as an excuse either. 

 

WeBe is right, nothing has been touched on the east side of 11 for two weeks. Other Clubs groomed on this Saturday night and Sunday night past to take advantage of the cold nights and set their trails up for the week.  I'm sure we would have done that too.  but.......We are out of money.  And this upcoming weather is a wonderful opportunity to bail.  Even if we have a 4 week return of cold weather and snow, the decision has been made to shut down for the season.  There is no money. 

 

There is nothing shameful about saying that.  And, despite the disappointment of trail closure, it is a much more understandable reason to the permit buying customer than "there is 3 feet of ice on the lake and we don't know how long it will last".

 

This is not a criticism of Snowcrest shutting down operations, but it is a commentary on how OFSC obfuscation is finding its way into club communications.

 

Thanks STG for the straight forward response.  If there is no Money to gas up the groomers, It certainly make sense that they can't groom.  Been in that situation before myself. Many of us probably have.  I also agree with DooGirl69 that a more balanced allocation of funds throughout the season might stop this from happening in the future.

 

I got a nice PM from 2BSledding, giving greater detail on the last few weeks, which put some perspective on the situation.  The direct approach was appreciated.

 

I love Snowcrest Country.  For a Toronto boy, it is very refreshing to see the sense of community of this club and organized sledding in general. Doesn't happen much around here.

 

I think that everyone involved in Snowcrest deserves a huge Thank You.  I Will be back with my permit Dollars next year.   Looking forward to a late season 2015 ride on smooth trails.

 

For now, think I'm gonna trailer up to good old route 66.

 

WBS out.

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I find it truly amazing how we accept the explanation of "there is no money."

 

We should be outraged. We should be asking for answers. We should be looking at ourselves.

 

Not having any money to groom is a failure plain and simple. A failure that is only our fault. We need to raise the permit price not lower the price. If one club that sells the prerequired # of permits runs out of money then the OFSC, FFC and us have failed.

 

 

 

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Thank you to Snowcrest volunteers, staff and executive for the countless hours of your time during this extended season. I really appreciate everything you have given to us, and wish you all the best. It has been a real pleasure enjoying the excellent trails this winter.

 

 

 I ride out of Port Severn on the Baxter trails and from there venture onto SMART, MLSTA, ODSC, Georgian Bay, Snowcrest and others but they are the most often traveled. I saw instances where due to heavy early and continuous snowfall early season groomer runs that should have taken 3 hours took 10 or more.  

 

I ventured further this year into Snowcrest territory than I ever have before thanks to the great reports I heard here from others on where they had ridden and the fact that as I rode into Snowcrest trails they were simply top notch and just stayed that way enticing me to keep riding further. My wife rode with me this year much more than she has in recent years simply due to the trail conditions.

 

So... to Snowcrest first since this is their forum, and all the other clubs trails I rode this year. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU! for likely the best conditions I can remember and the longest season I can remember.

 

 

I find it truly amazing how we accept the explanation of "there is no money."

 

We should be outraged. We should be asking for answers. We should be looking at ourselves.

 

Not having any money to groom is a failure plain and simple. A failure that is only our fault. We need to raise the permit price not lower the price. If one club that sells the prerequired # of permits runs out of money then the OFSC, FFC and us have failed.

I agree with all the above posts.   Very well said guys.  This year has been awesome and yes I do feel like we are robbing the clubs.  OFSC really needs to seriously look into this.  The clubs are doing everything they can to make us all happy.  Great season guys and gals.  THANKS TO ALL INVOLVED.  Even you STG.  LMAO

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I find it truly amazing how we accept the explanation of "there is no money."

 

We should be outraged. We should be asking for answers. We should be looking at ourselves.

 

Not having any money to groom is a failure plain and simple. A failure that is only our fault. We need to raise the permit price not lower the price. If one club that sells the prerequired # of permits runs out of money then the OFSC, FFC and us have failed.

 

 

We are outraged.  Catch on to a couple, or more, threads in the general forum.   The Framework for Control has failed us.  Not just Snowcrest - go to those threads and see how many clubs are in financial straits.  Ask why, with the wonderful trails that we have, we are underselling our product.  It is a failure, but not of the clubs.  That is why I can accept my club's explanation "there is no money".  But I cannot accept that overall there is no money.  It's a financial morass, without clear answers being given to the District Governors. 

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SCR seems to be in a hurry at the start of the season to be the first to have "Green" trails.

 

Maybe waiting and saving some funds at the start of the season there would be some money left over to finish out the best riding time of the season.

 

 

So what happens if they wait later to start grooming and then have poor weather and a short season? If the crystal ball worked it would be an easier decision. The OFSC is pushing clubs to get open early so as to extend the season but it seems to have backfired this year with the extended winter weather.

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I heard lots of people complaining early season when we got so much snow so early so fast about why trails weren't instantly open. They had little or no comprehension of how long it took to get through all that snow or the challenges of unfrozen ground. Which is better early season complaints about grooming or late season. Damned if you do damned if you don't

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