revrnd Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Skidooer, thanks for the link. I tried it & yes much quicker to get to. Mind you there is still an inch & a half of black @ the bottom of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couchrocket500 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Another irritant, which I have forwarded to OFSC, is that the lines for the Club trails are much too narrow and hard to see unless you zoom in a couple of times. Unless you zoom, you might not even notice a trail is even Open or Limited. Noticed that myself just now looking at the Midland area, if I had not zoomed in I would have missed the club trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Another irritant, which I have forwarded to OFSC, is that the lines for the Club trails are much too narrow and hard to see unless you zoom in a couple of times. Unless you zoom, you might not even notice a trail is even Open or Limited. Maybe club boarders should be marked as well. So you know what club your riding in. But it is 10000000% than last year, I like the pop up that gives you the trail info but ya it's too big, and I which you could pick the section between trails only. Right now when you select a trail you the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Groomer Guy Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I see some trails as closed on my mobile app on BB until I zoom in it all turns green. I was going to say that, you have to zoom in in some areas to see the trails as open, We (Clubs) can not do our own updates, the District has to do it.. well it how it works for us here. I send the from to him and he post it fast like 5 minutes.. then for trail updates once the trails are open its done anytime we send them in or twice a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I passed this on to the OFSC and he said it was a common complaint and they passed it along to their 'developer'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimm Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 When the base map is set to "roads" and a trail is marked "limited", it shows as a yellow line...which is the same colour as some roads on the map. It can get annoying, confusing a trail for a road, or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Exactly. Riding on closed trails upsets a lot of people. So if the website is wrong, people are going to get upset and we'll lose trails in the process. In the interest of keeping everyone happy, the website needs to be accurate at all times. There is no other reasonable way to relay the information. In a perfect world we would all be more relaxed on both sides. If people weren't freaking out about people driving on closed trails then people wouldn't need to be obsessed about the trail status. But I don't see those things changing, well... ever. In my experience it upsets people that are clueless.Yahoos riding a guys field or on 1" of snirt is much different than someone running a seasonsl access rd after first major snowfall that is a sled trail in winter. 1 action can do permanent damage to landowner/club relations, tge other is common and accpeted practice by local sledders and in many cases the snowmobile clubs themselves. 15 years ago there were no online updates. Many still dont use the system at all. You really should check with the locals as to trail conditions before heading out, its the best, safest way to gather info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 In my experience it upsets people that are clueless. Yahoos riding a guys field or on 1" of snirt is much different than someone running a seasonsl access rd after first major snowfall that is a sled trail in winter. 1 action can do permanent damage to landowner/club relations, tge other is common and accpeted practice by local sledders and in many cases the snowmobile clubs themselves. I don't know that I would call it "accepted practice". In our litigious society, the clubs cannot allow or condone this behaviour. The repercussions are simply too severe. If a club has a work crew out to pack a trail or traverse a trail prior to it being open, that is NOT the same as a permit buyer thinking he is allowed to do the same. The crew is there to aid in actually open the trail! There are many potentially dangerous situations on a closed trail. It is closed for a reason! I realize that there can be a delay between the time that the club decided that a trail is open and the time that the IAFG is updated. However, that does not mean that you can ride on the trail unless you have conclusively determined that the CLUB has deemed the trail open. 15 years ago there were no online updates. Many still dont use the system at all. 15 years ago we weren't quite as litigious a society and it was pre-911. That event caused insurance rates to skyrocket in all areas and in particular for "fringe" activities. Now, in order to keep insurance costs down, we have specific risk management guidelines set up and they have to be followed, both by the clubs and the permit buyers. Read the agreement that you signed to get your permit! All of the clubs are required to report their trail status at least twice weekly to be updated on the IAFG. You really should check with the locals as to trail conditions before heading out, its the best, safest way to gather info. If by locals, you mean the local club, then that is something we agree upon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 15 years ago there were no online updates. Many still dont use the system at all. 40 years ago there was no OFSC. That doesn't mean it is acceptable to boot across any old field you feel like today. 15 years is an eternity in terms of progress. What is important to realize is that as soon as the information is on the internet, it can be used for any purpose. You can automatically hook that data up to the telephone, TV, radio, newspaper, you name it. That is why it is critical that the internet be the definitive source. The data can fan out from there. I don't think we really have a problem though. The website is updated immediately these days. We just can't loose sight of its importance and should be working to make it even more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I know I'm going to get flamed for this one, but I'm happy with the guide this year finally don't miss the text reports anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadoo Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't know that I would call it "accepted practice". In our litigious society, the clubs cannot allow or condone this behaviour. The repercussions are simply too severe. If a club has a work crew out to pack a trail or traverse a trail prior to it being open, that is NOT the same as a permit buyer thinking he is allowed to do the same. The crew is there to aid in actually open the trail! There are many potentially dangerous situations on a closed trail. It is closed for a reason!I realize that there can be a delay between the time that the club decided that a trail is open and the time that the IAFG is updated. However, that does not mean that you can ride on the trail unless you have conclusively determined that the CLUB has deemed the trail open. 15 years ago we weren't quite as litigious a society and it was pre-911. That event caused insurance rates to skyrocket in all areas and in particular for "fringe" activities. Now, in order to keep insurance costs down, we have specific risk management guidelines set up and they have to be followed, both by the clubs and the permit buyers. Read the agreement that you signed to get your permit! All of the clubs are required to report their trail status at least twice weekly to be updated on the IAFG. If by locals, you mean the local club, then that is something we agree upon you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. You are the exact person I was referring to... To anal and afraid, that it may prevent you from having good whoksome, legal fun, even if a trail is "closed".Never said a club should tell anyone anything other than open, closed, limited. That is what the litigious society has done. What it hasnt done is cancel out my early season ride on a closed trail (forest access rd on public land). Not all trails are the same and ive found much of the posters on these sites are from tge south where there are very few actual trails. You cut a path through someones land in winter, put signs up, take them down at the end if the year and then theres no trace a sled trail was there. Most of the trails in tge north are trails or roads of some kind. You were in cochrane I gather, there was a section of trail Closed RED between tge arctic riders and pokar bear club, closed because of the river crossing. Were you trespassing? The club even advised people of this... And by locals I mean just that, the guy at the sled dealer, gas pumps, etc. tgey generally know the area and see the club/groomers. My point is, lets have fun, dont worry so much about a website. 40 years ago there was no OFSC. That doesn't mean it is acceptable to boot across any old field you feel like today. 15 years is an eternity in terms of progress. What is important to realize is that as soon as the information is on the internet, it can be used for any purpose. You can automatically hook that data up to the telephone, TV, radio, newspaper, you name it. That is why it is critical that the internet be the definitive source. The data can fan out from there. I don't think we really have a problem though. The website is updated immediately these days. We just can't loose sight of its importance and should be working to make it even more important. i can tell you not much had changed in 15 years for sledding in our area, other than less $$$ and less people who want to be involved in the club. Same trails less of them... No difference, once theres enough snow people are out there. We have atvs allowed in the off season that do a lot of damage, to say more than the few guys out there when its closed would be a stretch, as the sleds dont really do any danage.Big dif between tgat area and sw ontario. Huge Dweese: The site is great, its being improved all the time. Sledders are an ornary ignorant bunch of whiners IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Big dif between tgat area and sw ontario. Huge No question. Which is why we need to find solutions that work for areas that have changed. If you can get away with not checking trail conditions in your area, that's awesome. Consider yourself lucky. Sledders are an ornary ignorant bunch of whiners IMO. A bit of an ironic statement, but it comes with the culture. The OFSC was born and thrives by contributions of others. There are even signs on the trial that ask for help to reinforce the idea. Knowing that, you cannot start contributing until you have identified the problems that need your help. That step requires discussion with others to see how they fit. All of the highly active club members I have had the pleasure of talking with say they started with complaints, which turned into them doing more. If whining was verboten, they would have never become involved at all. The people you call "ornary ignoramuses" are the people who want to get involved and do more, but they are being pushed aside with snide remarks and general disdain towards their character. Remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 My neighbor was out today on HCSA 4 out of Minden. It is listed as closed. He ran into a group cutting some trees on the trail and they told him to go for it. Yes, the status was closed but if nobody goes down the trail to find downed branches then the club may not know until they groom. Good point. Nobody pissed on his cornflakes for riding a closed trail. I have seen this for years around here. it is not new. There are no farmers fields here or Winter wheat to wreck here either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 My neighbor was out today on HCSA 4 out of Minden. It is listed as closed. He ran into a group cutting some trees on the trail and they told him to go for it. Yes, the status was closed but if nobody goes down the trail to find downed branches then the club may not know until they groom. Good point. Nobody pissed on his cornflakes for riding a closed trail. I have seen this for years around here. it is not new. There are no farmers fields here or Winter wheat to wreck here either. I'm glad to hear that. Somebody was pissed at me because I encouraged an early season rider (before trails were opened) to get back to me with what he has seen and where. This info is vital, we can't be everywhere on a 300+ km trail system. "Which came first? the Chicken or The Egg?) Private property is a different matter but not a real big issue up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I was told by the volunteer coordinator last year to ride as many trails as I wanted to source out deadfall and issues. Report them back to the club or grab a chainsaw and feel free to trim away. This was loooong before any trail was open. For sure a different ball game in SW Ontario or farm country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 The black, wasted space @ the bottom of the page has disappeared for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Looks like the guide got an update over night. I looked at Percy Boom's trails last night as I saw their groomer had been out, looked again this morning and I see there is a new trail for them that cuts closer to Trenton and if I remember correctly there is a Yamaha dealer with a parking area right where that trail ends, which is a big plus if the dealer is letting people park in his lot to unloaded from (I'll do a drive by and find out) Also the unknown trail that connects Percy Boom with Prince Edward County that is a 15km road run has finally been removed. Anyone else seen anything new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I was told by the volunteer coordinator last year to ride as many trails as I wanted to source out deadfall and issues. Report them back to the club or grab a chainsaw and feel free to trim away. This was loooong before any trail was open. For sure a different ball game in SW Ontario or farm country. In the 80s & 90s I remember our club wanting us to ride the trails & pack down the soft spots before they sent the groomers out. I was out w/ a groomer a couple of years ago when he was breaking open some trails after we had about a foot & a half of snow. There was 1 wet spot that after he was thru it twice, was a big slush pit. I don't know if sleds had been running it would it have been better. I wonder if this closing trails even when the snow (on Crown Land) is ample has reduced deaths & or lawsuits. Heck a groomer can go by & an hour later a tree could fall across the trail. Maybe the trails should be audited on a daily basis in the morning then posted as open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 In the 80s & 90s I remember our club wanting us to ride the trails & pack down the soft spots before they sent the groomers out. I was out w/ a groomer a couple of years ago when he was breaking open some trails after we had about a foot & a half of snow. There was 1 wet spot that after he was thru it twice, was a big slush pit. I don't know if sleds had been running it would it have been better. I wonder if this closing trails even when the snow (on Crown Land) is ample has reduced deaths & or lawsuits. Heck a groomer can go by & an hour later a tree could fall across the trail. Maybe the trails should be audited on a daily basis in the morning then posted as open. I get the idea of a daily inspection from a liability standpoint. Amusement parks do that with rides, and sign off on them. As do many organizations, for equipment. I dont think most clubs have the resources to do that, hence the "trail use assumption". I can see where some of the swamps might benefit from packing. The TOP B into Haliburton is still limited because a groomer has smashed open a 50'+ section of mud bog coming into town. It was not like that when they were just running the Tundras through. That is a sign of this weird Winter. Moving water, not enough cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I get the idea of a daily inspection from a liability standpoint. Amusement parks do that with rides, and sign off on them. As do many organizations, for equipment. I dont think most clubs have the resources to do that, hence the "trail use assumption". I can see where some of the swamps might benefit from packing. The TOP B into Haliburton is still limited because a groomer has smashed open a 50'+ section of mud bog coming into town. It was not like that when they were just running the Tundras through. That is a sign of this weird Winter. Moving water, not enough cold. Yes, you can't expect the clubs to do a daily inspection. You always have to be aware. There was a young teen killed in a sledding accident a few years ago in the Huronia area. I think he'd gone for a ride after school & the trail was fine. He went out for a ride w/ his father after dinner and he was leading when he collided w/ a tree that had fallen across the trail since his earlier ride. A very sad situation at the time because it sounded like he really enjoyed snowmobiling. The TOP B situation sounds exactly like what happened w/ the boggy spot the groomer went thru the night I was out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here is one I don't think anyone has asked or answered...... How much of the trail system is not showing on the interactive map? I know for a fact about half of my club's trails are not there, because there is no GPS data....Something I'm looking after if we ever get snow to open up the trails...But we have over 200km of trails, and because we are land locked, none of those are top trails they are all local club. But looking just now at a local club trail out of Belleville, that 16.1km trail is the only local trail the club has, they have 80km of E108 and 20km of E212...But just that single 16km club trail... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here is one I don't think anyone has asked or answered...... How much of the trail system is not showing on the interactive map? I know for a fact about half of my club's trails are not there, because there is no GPS data....Something I'm looking after if we ever get snow to open up the trails...But we have over 200km of trails, and because we are land locked, none of those are top trails they are all local club. But looking just now at a local club trail out of Belleville, that 16.1km trail is the only local trail the club has, they have 80km of E108 and 20km of E212...But just that single 16km club trail... It seems that if you zoom in far enough the local club trails start to show up. Keep zooming and you will likely find what you are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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