The OFSC Website

[skidooer]

Just curious.

[blakesnowcrest]

3 times a week in the summer.

Everyday in the winter.

[skidooer]

Thanks blake. Do you feel your volunteering efforts impact the way you use the site? i.e. is the information geared towards volunteers rather than customers?

[Canuck]

Primary use was for trail status.

Used it more during the shoulder season (early and late in the year) because that's when the trail conditions varied.

[sledjunk]

Primary use was for trail status.

Used it more during the shoulder season (early and late in the year) because that's when the trail conditions varied.

X2

As I mentioned earlier, I find the new site awkward to navigate to find any real information.

[couchrocket500]

Primary use was for trail status.

Used it more during the shoulder season (early and late in the year) because that's when the trail conditions varied.

X2 Rode mainly Lambton, Middlesex, and Huron counties last year. Snow was sporatic last year, lots of snow in one area and hardly any in the next, mostly lake effect stuff. Nice to know where theres snow to plan your ride. Still managed 2000k and I was

[slomo]

-useless on most rural internet access methods - dialup and even 'stick' sometimes is system is busy. Maps won't load up.

-can't get rid of extraneous info to increase screen size such as where to order maps - makes we wonder who is being served

-tend to bookmark local club sites for conditions in folders each for various regions

[skidooer]

Interesting stuff everyone. To those who visit it daily for reasons other than to check trail conditions, what content do you enjoy consuming during your stay? I don't see a lot of content that is updated daily, so I'm curious to hear what I'm missing out on!

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Interesting stuff everyone. To those who visit it daily for reasons other than to check trail conditions, what content do you enjoy consuming during your stay? I don't see a lot of content that is updated daily, so I'm curious to hear what I'm missing out on!

Daily?

You can get better trail reports here.

[SlowTouringGuy]

Daily?

You can get better trail reports here.

This, and similar sites, is/are the only place(s) to get reliable trail condition reports.

I'm hesitant to respond lest someone, once again, hijack the purpose of this thread and grill me on what I have done for my club the last 40 years and demand that I "man up" to do some more.

Nonetheless, I'm hoping that the "interactive" (which never was) map may now provide basic information that paper maps provided for years. Let's hope, that this year, the map offering catches up to some of the information that paper maps have given us since the 70's. Gotta love technology. :razz:

[dweese]

-can't get rid of extraneous info to increase screen size such as where to order maps - makes we wonder who is being served

I email them last year about that. I guess the OFSC sold their soul to Map Sherpa and had to give so much screen space to them, for their work on the interactive map. But I'm sure something could be made so much simpler off a Google Map or something. The OFSC should talk to the Quebec guys and see who did theirs.

[SlowTouringGuy]

I email them last year about that. I guess the OFSC sold their soul to Map Sherpa and had to give so much screen space to them, for their work on the interactive map. But I'm sure something could be made so much simpler off a Google Map or something. The OFSC should talk to the Quebec guys and see who did theirs.

There is SO much the OFSC could learn from Quebec, it's astonishing. Trails, signage, speed limits, insurance, hospitality, maps, assistance in saddle bag trips from routing to hotel bookings - wow !

[Nutter]

There is SO much the OFSC could learn from Quebec, it's astonishing. Trails, signage, speed limits, insurance, hospitality, maps, assistance in saddle bag trips from routing to hotel bookings - wow !

All governed by provincial legislation, just because one province can do things one way does not mean another can do the same. And yes the OFSC has lobbied to change some of those things without success.

Over and above the $260 before Dec 1st and $320 after Dec 1st permit price, the FCMQ also recieves $25 out of the $73 registration for every registered sled in the province, think you'd ever see the Province of Ontario get on board with that ? Let alone sledders being happy to pay $73 for annual registration or $260 - $320 for a permit. Sure the FCMQ permit includes liablity insurance, but if you want to cover your sled for theft or collision you pay through the nose.

...... grass is always greener

[Cudney Racing]

If you buy a Quebec trail sticker and live anywhere besides Quebec you do get the insurance portion of the fee back. Not sure if the price went up for 11/12 season but last year it was $240.00/$300.00 and when you got the insurance back it was about the same price as a trail permit in Ontario. - Bill

[dweese]

All governed by provincial legislation, just because one province can do things one way does not mean another can do the same. And yes the OFSC has lobbied to change some of those things without success.

...... grass is always greener

Ok so we know we can't change everything, but like what was said, we can still learn a lot from other provinces.

Lets look at the things we can control? Back to the interactive map...This place is run on volunteers, but instead of looking in house, we sold out to MapSherpa and look what we got? A screen that is 50% covered by MapSherpa logos and $3.99 by me now maps. Sure trail status is limited by lawyers, but how about a simple distance measuring tool? Even to be able to click on a trail section and have it show you a distance between the two closest major trail intersections, would be helpful.

I’m sure there are guys on this site that could have created something 10times better, and maybe even volunteered their time to do it. But no OFSC didn’t even ask up, the whole thing was a big hush hush kept under wraps until Dec1 last year when the new website came online. Every year I put my email address on my permit paperwork, so OFSC must have a hell of a database base. How hard would have it been to drop a mass email to all members saying, “hey here is what we are thinking of doing, anyone who has the skills and would like to help make our online system better contact this person.” But it never came, and still hasn’t, which means we are stuck with the same system as last year.

Volunteers can do more than just cut trees down and drive sign post in to the ground, someone at head office needs to figure that out.

On sometings the grass is greener. We have the biggest trail system in the world. Our website should be a showcase of infomation for people to see and drool over.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

Ok so we know we can't change everything, but like what was said, we can still learn a lot from other provinces.

Lets look at the things we can control? Back to the interactive map...This place is run on volunteers, but instead of looking in house, we sold out to MapSherpa and look what we got? A screen that is 50% covered by MapSherpa logos and $3.99 by me now maps. Sure trail status is limited by lawyers, but how about a simple distance measuring tool? Even to be able to click on a trail section and have it show you a distance between the two closest major trail intersections, would be helpful.

I’m sure there are guys on this site that could have created something 10times better, and maybe even volunteered their time to do it. But no OFSC didn’t even ask up, the whole thing was a big hush hush kept under wraps until Dec1 last year when the new website came online. Every year I put my email address on my permit paperwork, so OFSC must have a hell of a database base. How hard would have it been to drop a mass email to all members saying, “hey here is what we are thinking of doing, anyone who has the skills and would like to help make our online system better contact this person.” But it never came, and still hasn’t, which means we are stuck with the same system as last year.

Volunteers can do more than just cut trees down and drive sign post in to the ground, someone at head office needs to figure that out.

On sometings the grass is greener. We have the biggest trail system in the world. Our website should be a showcase of infomation for people to see and drool over.

Blasphemy! Dont you know how things are done? Maybe you should volunteer and stop spouting idea's off on a website!

Sense is not spoken here!

[skidooer]

I’m sure there are guys on this site that could have created something 10times better, and maybe even volunteered their time to do it. But no OFSC didn’t even ask up, the whole thing was a big hush hush kept under wraps until Dec1 last year when the new website came online.

If you would have attended club meetings, you would have known about it.

But that perfectly highlights the serious downfall of the club model. Club meetings are a relatively small group of people. The chances of finding like-minded individuals to work on the site are low. Geospatial computations are a fairly niche skill-set. If you find anyone else in any given club with experience, it would be like winning the lottery. Maybe if you attend the AGM your chances of finding someone else with those skills might increase, but not all club members go to the AGM.

We keep hearing "go to the club meeting," but the guy I need to work with lives clear on the other side of the province. Ontario is huge. Assuming I can even find contact with this person, am I expected to drive for two days to meet with him each month? Give me a break.

I have often considered building a better website for the OFSC independently. The fear is that I would put all of the effort in and no other club members would be interested in using it. Without input from every club, the value would be lost. Again, do I really have to drive to every single club meeting around the province to get the input from the people who will be using it? As fun as it might be, I simply do not have that kind of time. It is difficult enough to make it to one club's meetings.

Maybe Nutter, or someone else, can explain what we have to gain by not talking? I simply do not understand.

[Nutter]

Instead of quoting a few I'll cover some info and points I think should be pondered, as they were/ and/are by people volunteering to make it all work.

Does the OFSC have the resources and $$ to interview and back ground check for ability to provide a better system for everyone who's willing to volunteer to set up a new website ?

Can the provincial condition reports and OFSC website in general be considered dependable if in the hands of someone who is volunteering, rather then a paid employee who is 100% accountable to the membership, where as volunteers are not ? Could putting it in the hands of a volunteer open up legal issues ?

Did the OFSC consult with the FCMQ in GPS tech and using it for conditions ... of course, and consultations between the two started well before the FCMQ or OFSC even started to use this tech, the FCMQ just went with it first.

There is always an open line of comunication, it's not open forums on the web it's through club's associations and districts, and the phone line to talk to support staff at the OFSC has never been disconnected...... Some people just don't understand the legal politics of how an org like this has to work and become frustrated, but nothing can be done about how somethings work, others just need people to bring it to frutition, as not everyone already involved will agree with some ideas and may be unwilling to put forth an effort towards that idea.

You guys here seem to be the minority of those who feel the OFSC website (and the OFSC in general) is not "up to snuff", a large percentage of permit buyers were/are surveyed (as is done frequently by the OFSC on many different subjects) and and the majority feel it's a great website (and org), also many (uninvolved and involved) permit buyers also had a hand in creating the new website through input from previous surveys. Like it or not, or think you know better and can do better, the OFSC since it's inception has always set the bar, one which other pay per use orgs world wide model themselves after.

[dweese]

Blasphemy! Dont you know how things are done? Maybe you should volunteer and stop spouting idea's off on a website!

Sense is not spoken here!

LOL

I did volunteer my work, I mapped out a pile of GPS tracks for clubs in my area how after months of unanswered emails I got mad and posted a message stright to the FaceBook page asking if volunteers can do anything but cut trees, because no one seems to care about what I have to offer. Less than an hour later I get 3 emails from people I had been trying to reach. My work still ended up getting shelved until next year.

[sledjunk]

Instead of quoting a few I'll cover some info and points I think should be pondered, as they were/ and/are by people volunteering to make it all work.

Does the OFSC have the resources and $ to interview and back ground check for ability to provide a better system for everyone who's willing to volunteer to set up a new website ?

Can the provincial condition reports and OFSC website in general be considered dependable if in the hands of someone who is volunteering, rather then a paid employee who is 100% accountable to the membership, where as volunteers are not ? Could putting it in the hands of a volunteer open up legal issues ?

Did the OFSC consult with the FCMQ in GPS tech and using it for conditions ... of course, and consultations between the two started well before the FCMQ or OFSC even started to use this tech, the FCMQ just went with it first.

There is always an open line of comunication, it's not open forums on the web it's through club's associations and districts, and the phone line to talk to support staff at the OFSC has never been disconnected...... Some people just don't understand the legal politics of how an org like this has to work and become frustrated, but nothing can be done about how somethings work, others just need people to bring it to frutition, as not everyone already involved will agree with some ideas and may be unwilling to put forth an effort towards that idea.

You guys here seem to be the minority of those who feel the OFSC website (and the OFSC in general) is not "up to snuff", a large percentage of permit buyers were/are surveyed (as is done frequently by the OFSC on many different subjects) and and the majority feel it's a great website (and org), also many (uninvolved and involved) permit buyers also had a hand in creating the new website through input from previous surveys. Like it or not, or think you know better and can do better, the OFSC since it's inception has always set the bar, one which other pay per use orgs world wide model themselves after.

[skidooer]

Does the OFSC have the resources and $$ to interview and back ground check for ability to provide a better system for everyone who's willing to volunteer to set up a new website ?

Wow. Just how much money do you spend interviewing and providing background checks on people to drive stakes into the ground?

Your website runs on Linux, Apache and PHP. Linux, Apache and PHP are written by volunteers around the world without any background checks. Do you go and read up on every user who wrote your system from top to bottom? If not, why aren't you concerned about the entire stack?

Firefox contains code written by me. I could have slipped in some code that made your trail reports report that all of the trails are open to Firefox users. I presume you've done a background check on me?

I never was one to think that the OFSC is an old boys club, but wow. For a so-called volunteer organization, you don't place much faith in volunteers.

[dweese]

Does the OFSC have the resources and $$ to interview and back ground check for ability to provide a better system for everyone who's willing to volunteer to set up a new website ?

Background checks for the website? Really??? Its snowmobile trails, not government secrets. Are we worried they are going to post open trails in July?

Can the provincial condition reports and OFSC website in general be considered dependable if in the hands of someone who is volunteering, rather then a paid employee who is 100% accountable to the membership, where as volunteers are not ? Could putting it in the hands of a volunteer open up legal issues ?

Humm, aren't they in the hands of volunteers now? The local club calls them in to the District. Is the guy at club level paid?

Did the OFSC consult with the FCMQ in GPS tech and using it for conditions ... of course, and consultations between the two started well before the FCMQ or OFSC even started to use this tech, the FCMQ just went with it first.

Even worse then, if the 2 where talking, had they both gone to the same place think of the savings it would ended up with. As you create one system and just replace the map data. Looks like the ball got dropped big time here.

You guys here seem to be the minority of those who feel the OFSC website (and the OFSC in general) is not "up to snuff", a large percentage of permit buyers were/are surveyed (as is done frequently by the OFSC on many different subjects) and and the majority feel it's a great website (and org), also many (uninvolved and involved) permit buyers also had a hand in creating the new website through input from previous surveys. Like it or not, or think you know better and can do better, the OFSC since it's inception has always set the bar, one which other pay per use orgs world wide model themselves after.

Like I said, we are the biggest sled group in the world, we should stand out... Our website has some holes, and still needs lots of work to bring it in to 2011 standards.

We may be the minority, because we know tech...And as for this survey again something I've never heard or seen of, other than the one someone posted here. OFSC has my email address why did I not get a request for my input. Unless like the government they only survey a small percentage of people.

I got one for you Nutter..You keep saying contact your club for any info you want they have it all. So lets say I'm Joe Blow a simple permit buyer for the last few years that just rides, but wants to know where his permit money is going. You say he just has to contact his club.. Old site there was a link, call Club Links. But now with the new site, does anyone know where you find club links?

Its hidden under the about us tab on the OFSC site, then you go to District contacts, where you have to pull up a map to find your area than close that page because the map is not click-able, than select the district and find the club from there. Not very user friendly.

Nutter we know your are a dedicated member of your local club and of the OFSC, and we have no problem with any of that. Good for you, you have the time to put in to the system, but your not seeing our points. Its easy for you to get the answers because your in the click. Most of the rest of us are on the outside looking in. You can pick on what we say, but I would also hope because you seem to be in the loop, you take these issues up the line to those who can take a real look.

Because like I said a few post back, I've tried to sent my ideas up the line and no one every got back to me until I opened my mouth in a major place for everyone to see.

But you know what, all of this doesn't matter, the way the world is going with the lawyers, all the OFSC will be able to post in a few years is trails have snow on them. I'm sure shortly we will see even green open status go away and all we will get is yellow limited. Because some ass is going to be on a green status trail and hit a hold fall off and sue for $$$$ and win, because the OFSC site said it was green and green means go.

Don't get me wrong, I support the OFSC its a great organisation, but suggestions are good, however it is an old boys club at the top.

[Nutter]

Humm, aren't they in the hands of volunteers now? The local club calls them in to the District. Is the guy at club level paid?

Even worse then, if the 2 where talking, had they both gone to the same place think of the savings it would ended up with. As you create one system and just replace the map data. Looks like the ball got dropped big time here.

Like I said, we are the biggest sled group in the world, we should stand out... Our website is better than it was, but still needs lots of work to bring it in to 2011 standards.

We may be the minority, because we are know tech...And as for this survey again something I've never heard or seen of, other than the one someone posted here. OFSC has my email address why did I not get a request for my input. Unless like the government they only survey a small percentage of people.

I got one for you Nutter..You keep saying contact your club for any info you want they have it all. So lets say I'm Joe Blow a simple permit buyer for the last few years that just rides, but wants to know where his permit money is going. You say he just has to contact his club.. Old site there was a link, call Club Links. But now with the new site, does anyone know where you find club links?

Its hidden under the about us tab on the OFSC site, then you go to District contacts, where you have to pull up a map to find your area than close that page because the map is not click-able, than select the district and find the club from there. Not very user friendly.

Nutter we know your are a dedicated member of your local club and of the OFSC, and we have no problem with any of that. Good for you, you have the time to put in to the system, but your not seeing our points. Its easy for you to get the answers because your in the click. Most of the rest of us are on the outside looking in. You can pick on what we say, but I would also hope because you seem to be in the loop, you take these issues up the line to those who can take a real look.

Because like I said a few post back, I've tried to sent my ideas up the line and no one every got back to me until I opened my mouth in a major place for everyone to see.

A club volunteer who is assigned the clubs risk managment position for that club sends the condition data for his clubs conditions to the district operations director (which is also an assigned club position), who then along with 17 other district operations directors who collected data from 231 other clubs enter this data on the OFSC website. The OFSC website is the portal for 231 clubs acros the province and carrys with it the risk managment of all 231 clubs, where each club carries only it's own, same for districts. Having a volunteer with zero accountabilty in full control of the OFSC website and it's creation would be bad for business, now in saying that there is no issue with volunteers wanting to and actually helping with the OFSC's website, as is already done. But needless to say some safety measures have to be in place to insure the sites security and integrity as it represents legal risk for 231 clubs across the province, and the volunteers who volunteer to run those clubs.

As for your comment about me being in a "click" well maybe some view it as so, but I got there because I wanted to be there and put my time in and learned along the way how the OFSC has to work legaly, I didn't just walk in and say "Hi I'm Nutter and I want this and that changed because I think it should be" and all was well and was nominated by my peers for various positions. I did it just like 7000 other dedicated volunteers have and continue to do so, through dedication of wanting to do it at a level their comfortable with. You get back what you put in, want to just pound stakes, no sweat that awesome, but don't expect to up on all the lastest inner workings of your club without going to club meeting, same goes for the district and dist meetings and so on for provincial business .... you get back what you put in.

As for issues already brought up, as was once said on this site before by someone else (can't remember who ?), many times ideas or "complaints" have been brought up and either tried or investigated, and either failed and could not be done at all or at that time, and when ever a reason why it wont work or didn't gets brought up, some people just wont take that for an answer and get on the defensive with smart assed comments .

From the home page of the OFSC site it's 3 to 4 clicks to hit any club within the OFSC that has a website. Hover the about us tab, then scroll down and click the district contact info tab, then click on the district tab for the club your searching for, then click the club you want. Is it really that hard ? Call the club, it's volunteers so someone might be on holidays or away from the phone you may have to call another contact or maybe even a few to get a hold of someone, if no reply call the district, if no reply there call the OFSC, if you don't get anywhere from any of that then you have issues you probably should solve before you mention to someone you want to volunteer. Should it be easier, in most cases the first calls gets the job done and in contact with someone, in some cases it takes more and shouldn't, but that's the way it is since it's a volunteer run org, volunteers shouldn't be expected to wear their volunteer hat 24 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.

Dave I have no idea if Charlie from the Cartwright Dynos has called you yet about helping him with the District 3 map coordinators position, I spoke to him 3 or 4 days after I spoke with you in a PM and gave him your contact info ? If not I'd hope you'd follow up and send me another message rather then just dissmiss it and feel they don't want help, as many do after one or two attempts, Charlie may be away on holidays, or busy with something else, or he may have already gotten a hold of you ? Let me know eitherway so I or Sandra our Dist admin can follow up for you.

[skidooer]

Having a volunteer with zero accountabilty in full control of the OFSC website and it's creation would be bad for business

How do you verify that the volunteer provides accurate information when requesting trail status information? If you can't trust volunteers, you can't trust them. Period.

If you can trust them to provide accurate information, why can they not be trusted to update their club's details on the website? If they are going to lie, they will lie to your face. No technology needed.

It is pretty normal policy in industry to never give developers access to the production servers. Some companies do give read-only access so developers can read error logs, however. Your concern seems a little misguided here.

What is unfortunate is that it is completely irresponsible for me to help out the OFSC in the way I best can because the audit of my background would take precious resources away from the trail. The website needs work, but it doesn't need work so bad that it takes the proceeds of the sale of a permit or two just to entertain the idea of improving it.

Oh well.

[Nutter]

How do you verify that the volunteer provides accurate information when requesting trail status information? If you can't trust volunteers, you can't trust them. Period.

If you can trust them to provide accurate information, why can they not be trusted to update their club's details on the website? If they are going to lie, they will lie to your face. No technology needed.

It is pretty normal policy in industry to never give developers access to the production servers. Some companies do give read-only access so developers can read error logs, however. Your concern seems a little misguided here.

What is unfortunate is that it is completely irresponsible for me to help out the OFSC in the way I best can because the audit of my background would take precious resources away from the trail. The website needs work, but it doesn't need work so bad that it takes the proceeds of the sale of a permit or two just to entertain the idea of improving it.

Oh well.

You see no difference in having a volunteer member of a club develop a website of the club he belongs to, to a volunteer doing the same for a web portal for 231 clubs which are each it's own corp ?

As already said volunteers do have input in the OFSC website, just that final accountablity goes through a paid employee as it should, since there's risk involved that could implicate all 231 clubs and their volunteers.