The OFSC Website

[dweese]

From the home page of the OFSC site it's 3 to 4 clicks to hit any club within the OFSC that has a website. Hover the about us tab, then scroll down and click the district contact info tab, then click on the district tab for the club your searching for, then click the club you want. Is it really that hard ?

Yes it is hard, a lot harded than it should be. The OFSC is nothing without the local clubs, they are the ones who create the need for the OFSC in the first place. It should be 2 clicks of the mouse, on the OFSC main page there should be a tab up top that says Find your Local Club, from there you should get the district map and you click on the area you live, and that than forwards you to your local districts list of clubs. Right now you have to know where to look to find what your after, which is fine for those of us who have been around awhile. But someone who is new on the outside looking in, would get lost in a second. I raised this point last year in an email to the Contact Us link on the OFSC site, they gave me back basicaly the same answer you just did.

Dave I have no idea if Charlie from the Cartwright Dynos has called you yet about helping him with the District 3 map coordinators position, I spoke to him 3 or 4 days after I spoke with you in a PM and gave him your contact info ? If not I'd hope you'd follow up and send me another message rather then just dissmiss it and feel they don't want help, as many do after one or two attempts, Charlie may be away on holidays, or busy with something else, or he may have already gotten a hold of you ? Let me know eitherway so I or Sandra our Dist admin can follow up for you.

Yup thanks for that, Charlie dropped me an email last week about it, looking for help on proof reading the map before it goes to printer, but because I'm out of the loop on the whole layout of the map I wan't able to offer much help. Maybe next year when things are in the planning stages I can be more help.

You see no difference in having a volunteer member of a club develop a website of the club he belongs to, to a volunteer doing the same for a web portal for 231 clubs which are each it's own corp ?

As already said volunteers do have input in the OFSC website, just that final accountablity goes through a paid employee as it should, since there's risk involved that could implicate all 231 clubs and their volunteers.

Yes your right their is risk involved, but I think your missing the point trying to be made here. We are not suggesting of just turning it over to Joe Sledder with his home PC in mom's basement to look after. It the idea of having to go pay a 3rd party company to do work someone with in the OFSC maybe willing to volunteer to do. It would still be overseen by the OFSC paid employee as it is now to ensure there is nothing that would cause problems.

[dweese]

why can they not be trusted to update their club's details on the website?

I think the answer to that was. Not all clubs have access to highspeed internet to make those updates...Which brings up the whole other question, if the clubs don't have highspeed internet to make thier own updates, how are the memebers of those clubs accessing the site in the frist place to see those trail updates. Another reason why we still need a low tech / low bandwidth way of displaying trail status.

I saw a guy at the mall last winter in the Cogeco store checking the trail guide, on one of the demo PCs. So I figured being a selder I'd start up a convo with him. Asked where he was headed, he said nowhere just going for a ride on the weekend, but couldn't see the site on his dailup connection at home so well the wife shops he was planning his ride for the weekend. Even my dad has given up using his Rocket Stick, it will load for him, but he just does a quick overview of his area, trying to move around or zoom in somewhere else drives him nuts so he just gives up.

[slomo]

how are the memebers of those clubs accessing the site in the frist place to see those trail updates. Another reason why we still need a low tech / low bandwidth way of displaying trail status.

X100 - and this is so damned easy to do that all the OFSC blah blah blah in this thread is total garbage....

-A problem has been identified - not all permit holders can access trail conditions because the technology is not available in their areas.

-Solution - provide an alternative set of low tech pages - AS EXISTED IN THE RECENT PAST! - so shouldn't be TOO hard to set up - for those unable to access the interactive trail conditions page.

-end of discussion....unless of course such a thing would cut into online map sales....or the selling of GPS tracks........

Frankly, I am beginning to think that the OFSC needs a 3rd party auditor to check things such as why contracts are being handed out - magazine, map selling, etc. - without oversight, advertising or call for proposals - could be a bunch of people are getting a little too cosy.....

[UsedtoSkidoo]

X100 - and this is so damned easy to do that all the OFSC blah blah blah in this thread is total garbage....

-A problem has been identified - not all permit holders can access trail conditions because the technology is not available in their areas.

-Solution - provide an alternative set of low tech pages - AS EXISTED IN THE RECENT PAST! - so shouldn't be TOO hard to set up - for those unable to access the interactive trail conditions page.

-end of discussion....unless of course such a thing would cut into online map sales....or the selling of GPS tracks........

Frankly, I am beginning to think that the OFSC needs a 3rd party auditor to check things such as why contracts are being handed out - magazine, map selling, etc. - without oversight, advertising or call for proposals - could be a bunch of people are getting a little too cosy.....

The standard OFSC answer to that would be to step up and volunteer. Because your idea's are nothing unless you have personally sawed down a tree.

I think Dweese, hit it right on the head when he stated that "a volunteer can do more than just cut tree's!"

[skidooer]

You see no difference in having a volunteer member of a club develop a website of the club he belongs to, to a volunteer doing the same for a web portal for 231 clubs which are each it's own corp ?

It is different, sure, but what is your concern? It is quite likely already a solved problem. There are organizations way bigger and way more important than the OFSC that face the same problems every day.

What if you paid someone to write a really light aggregator that farms out to the club websites and a volunteer could write the bulk of the application hosted individually by each club? Would that satisfy you risk management requirements? No club can touch ofsc.on.ca. No volunteer can touch ofsc.on.ca. But the users get all of the information they need in "one" place without any huge capital expenditures to create it in the first place.

As already said volunteers do have input in the OFSC website

That actually explains a lot. Look up design by committee.

[skidooer]

The standard OFSC answer to that would be to step up and volunteer. Because your idea's are nothing unless you have personally sawed down a tree.

If you have time to complain, you have time to help, if you pass the interview process, background check and accept our compensation package.

I'll trust Nutter that the motivation is warranted and realize that it is not his policy, but it feels like a slap in the face to someone who was once upon a time excited about volunteering to fix the problems I was complaining about.

[Nutter]

You guys just don't get it do you, you feel your ideas are the be all to end all and everyone will like your ideas and they will all work no matter what. Well join in with 100's of others that feel the same way " I can do anything better then you can" . Realize that people have to step up to the plate and follow through and make decisions to make things work for A. the permit buyer and B. the volunteers.

Awesome to hear Charlie got in contact with you Dave We have a decent sized reroute over this way this year that'll need to be changed for the Interactive map a soon as we complete it, and I have a small research project on the go that could really use the help of the Dist map team, it may also span over into another district.

[Nutter]

If you have time to complain, you have time to help, if you pass the interview process, background check and accept our compensation package.

I'll trust Nutter that the motivation is warranted and realize that it is not his policy, but it feels like a slap in the face to someone who was once upon a time excited about volunteering to fix the problems I was complaining about.

Dooer if you really wanted to help with the OFSC's web tech stuff you'd of already been helping, since you have some great club, dist and OFSC contacts on here that could of easily set something up, so clip the drama will ya, you do more harm then good for future volunteer resources spewing your crap on line.

[UsedtoSkidoo]

You guys just don't get it do you, you feel your ideas are the be all to end all and everyone will like your ideas and they will all work no matter what. Well join in with 100's of others that feel the same way " I can do anything better then you can" . Realize that people have to step up to the plate and follow through and make decisions to make things work for A. the permit buyer and B. the volunteers.

You dont get it do you. These guys are asking to volunteer yet you crap on their idea's The gist of this thread was about idea's and Im pretty sure that Dweese and Skidooer know what they are talking about. So I fail to see how their idea's about saving the member clubs actual dollars is a bad thing. If it was me I would be contacting them to see if they could be implemented and take the money saved and put them to the trails. Seems quite simple and in line with your idea about volunteering is the only way. Unfortunately Nutter you cant have your cake and eat it to.

Dooer if you really wanted to help with the OFSC's web tech stuff you'd of already been helping, since you have some great club, dist and OFSC contacts on here that could of easily set something up, so clip the drama will ya, you do more harm then good for future volunteer resources spewing your crap on line.

I know a lot of people you have chased off with your rhetoric, party line clap trap. So cut the negative crap Nutter. Why not take him up on his offer?

[Nutter]

You dont get it do you. These guys are asking to volunteer yet you crap on their idea's The gist of this thread was about idea's and Im pretty sure that Dweese and Skidooer know what they are talking about. So I fail to see how their idea's about saving the member clubs actual dollars is a bad thing. If it was me I would be contacting them to see if they could be implemented and take the money saved and put them to the trails. Seems quite simple and in line with your idea about volunteering is the only way. Unfortunately Nutter you cant have your cake and eat it to.

I know a lot of people you have chased off with your rhetoric, party line clap trap. So cut the negative crap Nutter. Why not take him up on his offer?

Never crap on anyones ideas what so ever in any way shape or form ever, I just explain why things are done the way they are, but of course as always someone posting on line can always do better and knows for sure everyone will love their way of doing things.

The offer has always been there, not once have I ever recieved a pm or anything from Dooer wanting to help, has anyone else who volunteers on this form, and if so why didn't it go forward ? Now or very shortly would probably be the absolute perfect time for him to step in and volunteer some time, as the person who held the position which includes a lot of the new tech the OFSC is now into, has announced he is leaving the OFSC to relocate to be closer to his fiancée. I'm sure once found the new person filling that position will have their hands full and the help would be a great asset.

Ya chased soooo many away, must be why the two time club of the year which I hold the position of promotions and events for has a volunteer pool the size of a small town. Some of you guys on here just kill me, I'll give you some credit ..... and thank you for the laughs

[dweese]

Awesome to hear Charlie got in contact with you Dave We have a decent sized reroute over this way this year that'll need to be changed for the Interactive map a soon as we complete it, and I have a small research project on the go that could really use the help of the Dist map team, it may also span over into another district.

Well I hope you already got this reroute sent in for the Map, the updates I have will not make the paper version because its locked in stone at this point no more changes until next year....

Never crap on anyones ideas what so ever in any way shape or form ever.

Hate to break it to you dude, ya you are...

Ya chased soooo many away, must be why the two time club of the year which I hold the position of promotions and events for has a volunteer pool the size of a small town. Some of you guys on here just kill me, I'll give you some credit ..... and thank you for the laughs

Nutter never met you and I'm sure you are a nice guy, but and this is totally 3rd party info and I'm not attacking you, but I work in the GTA and have a hand full of co-workers who live in Port Perry. And they now buy permits from other clubs and trailer out of area on weekends when they could ride from their backyards.

And yes you guys do get spoiled when it come to a volunteer base, because the area is full of men's men that have the money to get out and enjoy sledding.

[Nutter]

Well I hope you already got this reroute sent in for the Map, the updates I have will not make the paper version because its locked in stone at this point no more changes until next year....

Hate to break it to you dude, ya you are...

Nutter never met you and I'm sure you are a nice guy, but and this is totally 3rd party info and I'm not attacking you, but I work in the GTA and have a hand full of co-workers who live in Port Perry. And they now buy permits from other clubs and trailer out of area on weekends when they could ride from their backyards.

And yes you guys do get spoiled when it come to a volunteer base, because the area is full of men's men that have the money to get out and enjoy sledding.

Nope didn't know we had to reroute till the end of the season (new from out of town land owner who wants nothing to do with sled trails unless he's well $$$ compensated), and the reroute can't be done till the fall as per MNR as it's on Crown Land. So we know it isn't going to make it to print, but we'd like to at least see it changed in the interactive guide.

Maybe you could point out where I crap on peoples ideas ?

Don't know why your bringing up this handful of guys you know, other then to say this handful you know don't ride here anymore because of what I post on OC when answering the usual OFSC I know better bashing posts ? If so that's a shame because we have great trails, good snow, great grooming and in general a great active open door policy club. I don't get that Port Perry has lots of men's men who have lots of money ? .... how does that play into the guys who ride older sleds, or the young people in their teens and early 20's and the women our club has volunteering or just enjoy our trails and events ? There's 4 other clubs within 20 km of Port Perry, I hope they also benefit from the exclusive to Port Perry men's men with money ?

If we do have a chance to meet and share a few miles, and you get to know me, you'll see I'm not the big bad closed minded Nutter as I'm percieved here by some. I'm just a guy who loves sledding who also likes to see the record set strait when it comes to the OFSC and it's clubs, hearsay and rumors are terrible thing.

[Canuck]

Accessed the Interactive Trail Guide tonight to figure out spelling of a community (Thick red line went over Missanabie, so hope I got spelling correct ) and noticed the following message:

To view the provinical trail status, please enter your email address and select the click here button:

I don't recall having to provide my email address each and every time I checked the trail status last year. New requirement? If so, why? Who is mining (and minding) the email addresses?

Not a criticism. Just a question.

[Nutter]

X100 - and this is so damned easy to do that all the OFSC blah blah blah in this thread is total garbage....

-A problem has been identified - not all permit holders can access trail conditions because the technology is not available in their areas.

-Solution - provide an alternative set of low tech pages - AS EXISTED IN THE RECENT PAST! - so shouldn't be TOO hard to set up - for those unable to access the interactive trail conditions page.

-end of discussion....unless of course such a thing would cut into online map sales....or the selling of GPS tracks........

Frankly, I am beginning to think that the OFSC needs a 3rd party auditor to check things such as why contracts are being handed out - magazine, map selling, etc. - without oversight, advertising or call for proposals - could be a bunch of people are getting a little too cosy.....

I agree on the need to have a low tech easy access for those with slow internet speeds, something that should be considered. But then again where do we draw the line, some sledders don't even have or use the internet ?

We already have auditing on who gets contracts, the board of Govs who in return answers to the clubs/membership, and they do go out for tennor. We can't forget the media industry for sledding is small, same for the amount of people who want to advertise through the OFSC, so there really isn't many players to choose from which makes it seem the same few are getting the contracts, because chances are they are.

Accessed the Interactive Trail Guide tonight to figure out spelling of a community (Thick red line went over Missanabie, so hope I got spelling correct ) and noticed the following message:

To view the provinical trail status, please enter your email address and select the click here button:

I don't recall having to provide my email address each and every time I checked the trail status last year. New requirement? If so, why? Who is mining (and minding) the email addresses?

Not a criticism. Just a question.

Seems it's optional so people can check the box and subscribe to the OFSC newsletter, I just tried it and cleared my cookies to double check if I had to enter it, and was able to click right through to the map.

[slomo]

I agree on the need to have a low tech easy access for those with slow internet speeds, something that should be considered. done right away. But then again where do we draw the line, some sledders don't even have or use the internet ? Not a valid argument. Some don't use cutlery either.

[dweese]

I agree on the need to have a low tech easy access for those with slow internet speeds, something that should be considered. But then again where do we draw the line, some sledders don't even have or use the internet ?

Finally you see agree with one of our points…

I saw it last year, I’ll see if I can find it again, but basically something like 40% of the province, that doesn’t live in the GTA or along major transportation corridors. Do not have access to low cost high-speed internet. So you need to look at where most of our members are from and it doesn’t take long to see there is a high number of permit holders that most likely stuck with dialup only still.

I know you go 5 minutes north of the 401 around me and there is nothing but dial up unless your willing to spend $300-$500 to setup on a wireless system or sign a mutli-year contract for a rocket stick with Rogers or Bell and speen $50 a month and get a tenth of what wired uses get for the same price.

[skidooer]

You guys just don't get it do you, you feel your ideas are the be all to end all and everyone will like your ideas and they will all work no matter what.

It is a volunteer job. If it turns out to be garbage, you throw it away. Big whoop.

Dooer if you really wanted to help with the OFSC's web tech stuff you'd of already been helping, since you have some great club, dist and OFSC contacts on here that could of easily set something up, so clip the drama will ya, you do more harm then good for future volunteer resources spewing your crap on line.

Come on Nutter, you've been here for a long time now:

• I created mockups for the website that included elements that looked suspiciously like what the interactive guide ended up being years later, minus the text-based alternate which, naturally, I had remembered to include.
  
• I created the completely working and fully functional volunteer finding tool that addressed some problems being discussed at that time and from what I recall was well received by many volunteers, but saw not even a "thanks but no thanks" from the powers that be.
  
• I created both an OS X and iOS version of the trail guide that is, according to others, better than what the OFSC offers.
  
• I created a viable system for low-cost printable permits. I understand why the OFSC is not implementing this, but instead of "That's cool. Maybe someday" we actually had OFSC guys go out of their way to spread FUD to scare people off from even considering it in the future when the technology matures.
  
• Probably a bunch of other stuff that I have forgotten.
  

I was out there volunteering my precious time to solve real OFSC problems as seen by the people who buy the permits. You don't have to be a fan of the work I have done, but don't say I have done nothing.

I would have loved to have worked with the OFSC to shape, improve and provide those products and others to the customer, but I faced nothing but severe resistance all the way along. It was never my way or the highway. I did those things to showcase what I can do, to show the OFSC that I can help where they need it. Nothing; no interest in using what I have to offer whatsoever.

How can you not see that as a serious problem for an organization that wants new blood? It is okay, I have found people who do want and appreciate my help. I post this as a warning to the OFSC to not let the next guy slip past! There are some really talented and passionate people out there that can only help make things better, if you let them.

[skidooer]

I know you go 5minutes north of the 401 around me and there is nothing but dial up unless your willing to spend $300-$500 to setup on a wireless system or sign a mutli-year contract for a rocket stick with Rogers or Bell and speed $50 a month and get a tenth of what wired uses get for the same price.

Wow, you guys are backwards over there. Over here in Huron County we have farms with fibre installed already.

[dweese]

Wow, you guys are backwards over there. Over here in Huron County we have farms with fibre installed already.

Ya just a bunch of sheap around here, so I guess they figure we don't need it.

When I bought the new house last year. I had to pass up on a near dream house, 5 acres, 5 car garage, 2 on the house, 3 in an out building, right next to the 401 exit I use, a few hundred yards from an old OFSC trail that you can still use to cross the bay to hit main club trails. Place was only 2 years old, dude had just built it and was looking to close quick as he was about to loose it to the bank and wanted to sell first to save what little credit score he had left. Was priced $150,000 below what it was worth he was just looking to clear what he owed and get out fast. But the only internet option was wireless that had just been put in under the Ontario Rural Connections Broadband Program. But I needed a 60 foot tower, plus the basical install was going to cost me over $1500, and than you only get 1.5mbs if the planets are aligned right. So with 2 kids in high school you can't have slow internet in the house, so we had to pass it up and stay in town.

[Canuck]

I think dweese was referencing geographical coverage, as opposed to population density. Both providers look pretty thin in northern Ontario.

(as an aside, I find it fascinating that BC and Saskatchewan have such great coverage by Bell)

If 'low speed' access, without pretty pictures or videos, was an option I'm sure northern customers would appreciate it.

Last year was a great season. 2011-2012 will be equally grand. Sledding was successful without websites and interactive 'guides', but if resources are being thrown at these 'bells and whistles' then efficient access for everyone should be the mantra.

[skidooer]

(as an aside, I find it fascinating that BC and Saskatchewan have such great coverage by Bell)

That would really be Sasktel in Saskatchewan. I spent some time out on a farm there a few weeks ago and was pretty impressed at the service they were offering out the middle of nowhere. Internet access is awesome anywhere that Bell isn't, from what I have noticed.

[Nutter]

It is a volunteer job. If it turns out to be garbage, you throw it away. Big whoop.

Come on Nutter, you've been here for a long time now:

• I created mockups for the website that included elements that looked suspiciously like what the interactive guide ended up being years later, minus the text-based alternate which, naturally, I had remembered to include.
  
• I created the completely working and fully functional volunteer finding tool that addressed some problems being discussed at that time and from what I recall was well received by many volunteers, but saw not even a "thanks but no thanks" from the powers that be.
  
• I created both an OS X and iOS version of the trail guide that is, according to others, better than what the OFSC offers.
  
• I created a viable system for low-cost printable permits. I understand why the OFSC is not implementing this, but instead of "That's cool. Maybe someday" we actually had OFSC guys go out of their way to spread FUD to scare people off from even considering it in the future when the technology matures.
  
• Probably a bunch of other stuff that I have forgotten.
  

I was out there volunteering my precious time to solve real OFSC problems as seen by the people who buy the permits. You don't have to be a fan of the work I have done, but don't say I have done nothing.

I would have loved to have worked with the OFSC to shape, improve and provide those products and others to the customer, but I faced nothing but severe resistance all the way along. It was never my way or the highway. I did those things to showcase what I can do, to show the OFSC that I can help where they need it. Nothing; no interest in using what I have to offer whatsoever.

How can you not see that as a serious problem for an organization that wants new blood? It is okay, I have found people who do want and appreciate my help. I post this as a warning to the OFSC to not let the next guy slip past! There are some really talented and passionate people out there that can only help make things better, if you let them.

I and many others have present many ideas year in and year out that don't go anywhere, just as many have and do that did go somewhere, as explained not everything works or is changable in the form it's presented, but many times some parts of those ideas that can't be done are brought into things. And as said what you deem to to be better may not be better in everyone elses eyes, or even able to be done that way. Who did you present those ideas to ?

[UsedtoSkidoo]

I and many others have present many ideas year in and year out that don't go anywhere, just as many have and do that did go somewhere, as explained not everything works or is changable in the form it's presented, but many times some parts of those ideas that can't be done are brought into things. And as said what you deem to to be better may not be better in everyone elses eyes, or even able to be done that way. Who did you present those ideas to ?

LOL

Never say die!