OFSC SITE

[ToSlow]

I wish they would leave the old site for us folks that don't like change. i find it really annoying trying to find what the clubs are saying about the updates. This is not a rant, just a thought

[Wildbill]

I have heard this alot as far as the trail conditions go . But not about anything else.

[mooseski]

dont realy like the new site, i think it would be better to have both.

[ToSlow]

I have heard this alot as far as the trail conditions go . But not about anything else.

this is what i miss about the old site mostly, i like to click on the trails and see what the report was.

[Canuck]

I'll reserve judgement re trail condition reporting on OFSC site until the trails are open. Funny thing is, I was flipping through tv channels and noticed the highway conditions channel. Looks like ofsc is adopting this model. Whether you can compare roads that are 'ice covered' vs clear to trails that are Open (but being logged) remains to be seen.

[bbakernbay]

That's the whole point. The MTO and other highway authorities give regular condition reports on their highways.

the OFSC doesn't want that condition report due to insurance liability issues. The OFSC only wants OPEN, CLOSED or LIMITED.

Funny that the Ministry of Transportation, who are sued regularly, feels it's a good thing to report conditions but not the OFSC.

[Classic]

That's the whole point. The MTO and other highway authorities give regular condition reports on their highways.

the OFSC doesn't want that condition report due to insurance liability issues. The OFSC only wants OPEN, CLOSED or LIMITED.

Funny that the Ministry of Transportation, who are sued regularly, feels it's a good thing to report conditions but not the OFSC.

Yes but how long has it been since some one sued the MTO and won. A hell of a long time.

[Canuck]

Yes but how long has it been since some one sued the MTO and won. A hell of a long time.

Conversely, does anyone have data re: the costs of litigation to Ontario snowmobiling? Judgements, settlements or increases (decreases) in insurance costs?

I feel like there's some bogeyman playing havoc with Ontario sledding ('do this because of insurance', 'don't do that because of insurance'), but can't seem to find actual numbers. I've looked for the budget and actual financial statements, but not 'readily' available.

So, I'm not sure that we went to green, yellow, red because of being sued. More likely, some felt that a visual representation would be easier.

I'll wait until the season opens, and I'm planning a trip. Easy to see if the new system is better or not then. That said, OFSC made a decision to go in a new direction, and should be applauded for attempts at improving sledding in Ontario.

[Yukon]

Funny that the Ministry of Transportation, who are sued regularly, feels it's a good thing to report conditions but not the OFSC.

Yes but how long has it been since some one sued the MTO and won. A hell of a long time.

Tough to sue MTO in court when their trails are engineered highways !

I have heard this alot as far as the trail conditions go . But not about anything else.

Hey Bill , you and I both know what the verbiage means and its still on the page that links to the OFSC interactive trail status http://www.ofsc.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=27..

• OPEN: Trails are open to snowmobiles to enter at their own risk

• CLOSED: Trails are not open and unsafe for snowmobiling

• LIMITED: Some trails are passable for marginal snowmobiling so extra caution is advised

• DATA NOT REPORTED: Status of trail not available.

Or would everybody like to read ...

Trail C Open from uncle stuckeys outhouse to hollows narrows , From Hollows narrows Limited to the old goat path watch for deer droppings just past the hole in the wall. A stones throw from there c trail closed due too logging so you will have to bypass using B1o5 to the monument then reconnect to C-trail at Aunty Lillies marine....

Just opens us up to more scrutiny when human error occurs and the big word wait for it (LIABILITY)....... The text info was too confusing for the TOURISTS from out of town , sure the locals (who ride with out permits cause it's there god given right) new where Uncle Stuckeys outhouse was since thats where they torch all the vandalized and stolen signage.......

[revrnd]

Tough to sue MTO in court when their trails are engineered highways !

Hey Bill , you and I both know what the verbiage means and its still on the page that links to the OFSC interactive trail status http://www.ofsc.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=27..

• OPEN: Trails are open to snowmobiles to enter at their own risk

• CLOSED: Trails are not open and unsafe for snowmobiling

• LIMITED: Some trails are passable for marginal snowmobiling so extra caution is advised

• DATA NOT REPORTED: Status of trail not available.

Or would everybody like to read ...

Trail C Open from uncle stuckeys outhouse to hollows narrows , From Hollows narrows Limited to the old goat path watch for deer droppings just past the hole in the wall. A stones throw from there c trail closed due too logging so you will have to bypass using B1o5 to the monument then reconnect to C-trail at Aunty Lillies marine....

Just opens us up to more scrutiny when human error occurs and the big word wait for it (LIABILITY)....... The text info was too confusing for the TOURISTS from out of town , sure the locals (who ride with out permits cause it's there god given right) new where Uncle Stuckeys outhouse was since thats where they torch all the vandalized and stolen signage.......

LMAO

Yukon, you've hit the nail right on the head.

That was my pet peeve last year. Some districts had great concise reports while others were confusing as if written by a 7 year old. I think going to the colours has just dumbed down the process. Rather than bring the non-conforming districts reports "up". Just come up w/ a system that makes it easy for reporting.

It's too bad the OFSC website could clean up all the tabs & drop down menus. Unless you're familiar w/ the site you basically have to click on every tab to figure out where you want to navigate to.

[dweese]

What I miss and I'm sure everyone will agree with me on this one.

The date and time of the report......

Old system you knew if the report was 5 hours old or 5 days old. With the new system you have no idea.

[ToSlow]

Tough to sue MTO in court when their trails are engineered highways !

Hey Bill , you and I both know what the verbiage means and its still on the page that links to the OFSC interactive trail status http://www.ofsc.on.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=46&Itemid=27..

• OPEN: Trails are open to snowmobiles to enter at their own risk

• CLOSED: Trails are not open and unsafe for snowmobiling

• LIMITED: Some trails are passable for marginal snowmobiling so extra caution is advised

• DATA NOT REPORTED: Status of trail not available.

Or would everybody like to read ...

Trail C Open from uncle stuckeys outhouse to hollows narrows , From Hollows narrows Limited to the old goat path watch for deer droppings just past the hole in the wall. A stones throw from there c trail closed due too logging so you will have to bypass using B1o5 to the monument then reconnect to C-trail at Aunty Lillies marine....

Just opens us up to more scrutiny when human error occurs and the big word wait for it (LIABILITY)....... The text info was too confusing for the TOURISTS from out of town , sure the locals (who ride with out permits cause it's there god given right) new where Uncle Stuckeys outhouse was since thats where they torch all the vandalized and stolen signage.......

this might be dribble to some, but for me it give a indication to were and were not to ride in the region.

if the crap was to deep on the goat path, then i'd head on over to the rabbit trail to the outhouse trail. either or i would at least be able to make an informed decision on were i wanted to go.

[Nutter]

That's the whole point. The MTO and other highway authorities give regular condition reports on their highways.

the OFSC doesn't want that condition report due to insurance liability issues. The OFSC only wants OPEN, CLOSED or LIMITED.

Funny that the Ministry of Transportation, who are sued regularly, feels it's a good thing to report conditions but not the OFSC.

Doesn't the MTO give about the same, 3 different conditions, Open, Closed or Snow Covered ? The only real difference I see is the MTO can afford to pay people to do it hourly, OFSC volunteers have to do it twice a week as mandated, or more often when they can find the time.

What's easier, suing unionized shop with bottomless pockets, or a bunch of volunteers with shallow pockets ?

Hard to sue unionized employee's, not so hard to sue volunteers

[Canuck]

Even if an area was new to me, I'd file away the info. Re logging, etc. Sure nice to know what to expect. I may not know precisely where it is, but to know it's there is reassuring. If the light is green, it basically means it's open, with little additional info.

Again, waiting until Ontario goes green before saying better/worse.

[Nutter]

Even if an area was new to me, I'd file away the info. Re logging, etc. Sure nice to know what to expect. I may not know precisely where it is, but to know it's there is reassuring. If the light is green, it basically means it's open, with little additional info.

Again, waiting until Ontario goes green before saying better/worse.

And if the club gave you the info it was logged and you had a wreck, the question from your insurers lawyer would be .... "you the club knew logging was going on, as you posted, if you felt is was caution enough to post, why didn't you do something about it before this person was injured ?"

IMO further leading the rider by the hand does nothing but lead to a court room if something happens .....

[ToSlow]

And if the club gave you the info it was logged and you had a wreck, the question from your insurers lawyer would be .... "you the club knew logging was going on, as you posted, if you felt is was caution enough to post, why didn't you do something about it before this person was injured ?"

IMO further leading the rider by the hand does nothing but lead to a court room if something happens .....

when was the last time someone took the ofsc to court and won

[Yukon]

when was the last time someone took the ofsc to court and won

I'd imagine several times , that's why we are making changes....

Better question would be.. How many times has the OFSC been brought to court only to waste money on fighting the litigation process ?????

edit::::

Bought we need to put more money on the snow!!!!!!!

[Canuck]

In Ontario, people are presumed to have some knowledge.

This is not the States, where you hand someone a coffee and get sued (successfully) because the customer argued it was hot.

If you want to debate this online, I will. I was hoping for Ontario to go green, before passing judgement.

At present, it appears that we've consiously dummied down our information, based on perceived liability.

Did automobile manufacturers stop making cars that exceeded the speed limit ? (presumably some lawyer tried to argue there was no need for a car to exceed the speed limit)and so on, and so forth.

The OFSC may have an opinion as to how information should be circulated (and it may not).

It may have acted on that opinion (if one exists)

It may have made this decision without an opinion.

The OFSC may have data on prior and future claims (and it may not).

The point is, it made a decision. The decision was to go to Green, Yellow, Red. Great. Some don't like it, and 'insurance liability' is thrown up. Some buy that, I don't (without data). I really believe folks thought that this new system was easier, and would transfer easier to the Iphone and other apps.

[Nutter]

when was the last time someone took the ofsc to court and won

I'd imagine several times , that's why we are making changes....

Better question would be.. How many times has the OFSC been brought to court only to waste money on fighting the litigation process ?????

edit::::

Bought we need to put more money on the snow!!!!!!!

Bingo

In Ontario, people are presumed to have some knowledge.

This is not the States, where you hand someone a coffee and get sued (successfully) because the customer argued it was hot.

If you want to debate this online, I will. I was hoping for Ontario to go green, before passing judgement.

At present, it appears that we've consiously dummied down our information, based on perceived liability.

Did automobile manufacturers stop making cars that exceeded the speed limit ? (presumably some lawyer tried to argue there was no need for a car to exceed the speed limit)and so on, and so forth.

The OFSC may have an opinion as to how information should be circulated (and it may not).

It may have acted on that opinion (if one exists)

It may have made this decision without an opinion.

The OFSC may have data on prior and future claims (and it may not).

The point is, it made a decision. The decision was to go to Green, Yellow, Red. Great. Some don't like it, and 'insurance liability' is thrown up. Some buy that, I don't (without data). I really believe folks thought that this new system was easier, and would transfer easier to the Iphone and other apps.

Do you really think the OFSC members make decisions on anything legal without consultation from a law firm that specializes in this kinda stuff, and that they don't keep data on past claims ?

[ToSlow]

I'd imagine several times , that's why we are making changes....

Better question would be.. How many times has the OFSC been brought to court only to waste money on fighting the litigation process ?????

edit::::

Bought we need to put more money on the snow!!!!!!!

i totally agree with keeping the funds on the snow, but i also like to keep things simple,and to me the old way of searching the trails for the conditions was just that "simple"

i really don't need to take my sledding to the high tech level, so in the ofsc doing what they done with the forum sorta left the simple guy old in the cold. i just wish they would also keep the old site active

[dweese]

I'm almost willing to guess there is no legal issue here at all.

Green, Yellow, Red its a standard way of displaying infomation all across the world.

I would have to say OFSC wanted a way to make it clean and simple, and that's what we have. May the idea is once everyone gets on board with the new way we'll start to see an X on the trail that you click on and it will give you more detail. Some what the way a traffic report online does.

It is the first year for this so who knows what's in store. Maybe 2 years from now it will show live tracking of the groomer too so you know where to watch out for them.

[ToSlow]

i agree change is good, but it's almost like they are trying to make it a rich mans sport as apposed to the average guy,

most people can hardly afford a permit then have to buy a 600 dollar tracking device and gps to buy a download.

all i wish is they would have gave the sledders the option rather to go the high tech route or stay the broke mans way.

[Canuck]

I'm almost willing to guess there is no legal issue here at all.

Green, Yellow, Red its a standard way of displaying infomation all across the world.

I would have to say OFSC wanted a way to make it clean and simple, and that's what we have. May the idea is once everyone gets on board with the new way we'll start to see an X on the trail that you click on and it will give you more detail. Some what the way a traffic report online does.

It is the first year for this so who knows what's in store. Maybe 2 years from now it will show live tracking of the groomer too so you know where to watch out for them.

Agreed. No doubt it's moving in that direction and this is the first draft.

Nutter, it may be a law firm. It may be the insurer that led us into this direction. Or it may be that someone simply decided to go Red, Yellow, Green. We'll never know. I'm leaning towards the pull of new technology.

[Yukon]

Agreed. No doubt it's moving in that direction and this is the first draft.

Nutter, it may be a law firm. It may be the insurer that led us into this direction. Or it may be that someone simply decided to go Red, Yellow, Green. We'll never know. I'm leaning towards the pull of new technology.

Probably did it with a flip of a double sided coin too ! Come on ! Really ?????

[Wildbill]

The big issue is liability then adopt the very hard to sue legislation as New Brunswick. Problem solved . As most of these ambulance chasing lawyers work on contingency where they do not get paid if they lose the issue should shrink dramatically.

I too did not like the uncle stuckeys outhouse type description but I did like trail 201 from hwy 141 to the Seguin trail type of description.