sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Here is a press release issued by the OFSC and OPP regarding the law and driver training. OPP_OFSC Law & Training MR.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for the information.. I did not know about having your drivers licence with you on your sled.. I have never had it with me and have never been asked to show it.. Is this a new rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 PS: Thanks for becoming a mod (as well as Canuck)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks for the information.. I did not know about having your drivers licence with you on your sled.. I have never had it with me and have never been asked to show it.. Is this a new rule? Not a new rule always been there , it's written in the Motorized Snow Vehicles Ac(MSVA) brother.... Driver’s obligationsDriver to carry documents 16. (1) Subject to subsection (2), every driver of a motorized snow vehicle shall carry his or her driver’s licence or motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and evidence of the motorized snow vehicle’s registration at all times while operating a motorized snow vehicle and shall produce them when demanded by a police officer or conservation officer. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 (1). Exception (2) A person shall not be required to carry any document referred to in subsection (1) while operating a motorized snow vehicle on lands occupied by the owner of the motorized snow vehicle. 2000, c. 30, s. 7 www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90m44_e.htm#BK17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not a new rule always been there , it's written in the Motorized Snow Vehicles Ac(MSVA) brother.... Thanks.. Ya learn someting new all the time.. Do the OPP on the trails know this rule too? Does anyone know if a photocopy of your ownership and insurance OK to show on the trail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thanks.. Ya learn someting new all the time.. Do the OPP on the trails know this rule too? Does anyone know if a photocopy of your ownership and insurance OK to show on the trail? You need to have a copy of both ,if photocopied make sure your ownership is copied on both sides including validation sticker... Yes the Police know the MSVA .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not a new rule always been there , it's written in the Motorized Snow Vehicles Ac(MSVA) brother.... Given that the permit gives occupation to the prescribed trail under the trespass act, does subsection two not invalidate the previous section? Seems to me, based on what you have posted – I don't feel like bringing up the entire act right now, that the only place you need proper documentation is while on roadways and perhaps crown land. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I did know about carrying my license. Never been asked to produce it. I used to carry my paperwork all photocopied, front and back..got asked for that, and was hassled by the STOP official and was told that copies were not suitable! That's when I slugged him with a axe handle and pissed in his helmet...no just kidding. I have always carried originals and my license ever since. All secure in a drybag type pouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuvMyViper Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 That's when I slugged him with a axe handle and pissed in his helmet...no just kidding. Some of us would just slug him with our own helmet and then piss on him ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Given that the permit gives occupation to the prescribed trail under the trespass act, does subsection two not invalidate the previous section? Seems to me, based on what you have posted – I don't feel like bringing up the entire act right now, that the only place you need proper documentation is while on roadways and perhaps crown land. Thoughts? The Act is the Act ! Based on what I posted is the Law ! Have a good day ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revrnd Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Anytime I've ever been stopped by the OPP, the officer has asked for my driver's licence. Seems strange that some of you have never been asked for the DL. Laziness or bad training perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Given that the permit gives occupation to the prescribed trail under the trespass act, does subsection two not invalidate the previous section? Seems to me, based on what you have posted – I don't feel like bringing up the entire act right now, that the only place you need proper documentation is while on roadways and perhaps crown land. Thoughts? Only if YOU are the owner of the land in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 The Act is the Act ! Based on what I posted is the Law ! I wasn't disputing the content. I realize it was copied verbatim. I would like to hear more about the interpretation. The Act is the Act, but Acts are subject to interpretation. Is my interpretation wrong? If so, why? Only if YOU are the owner of the land in question. An occupant is anyone who has been given permission to occupy the land, which includes, but is not limited to, the owner. The trail permit grants that occupancy on the area covered by the prescribed trail, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 You need to have a copy of both ,if photocopied make sure your ownership is copied on both sides including validation sticker... Yes the Police know the MSVA .... No photocopies are not good enought. Most OPP don't care because paperwork can get wet and damaged. But piss an OPP off by acting stupid or get one that would rather be driving a desk than working a trail STOp and you could find yourself with a ticket for not having paperwork. They don't even have to give you 24hours to produce it anymore. Its all up to the OPP standing in front of you at the time. I carry all my seld paperwork in a ziploc bag. Guy I work with got stopped for speeding last year only had photocopies and walked away with 3 tickets totaling almost $400. And make sure you carry both the green and yellow sheets that came with your permit. The last time I got stopped the cop didn't know what ones I had to have good thing I had both. My dad only had only had the green one that says carry this with you. Both cops went over my yellow sheet for 10mins trying to see if it said you have to carry this copy as well trying to give my dad a ticket, they never did and let us go. Remeber better have and not need than need and not have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Subsection 2 does not cover using the trails. Subsection 2 is for private property eg farmer on his own fields and not using the trail system. You have to have your drivers licence and photocopies of your insurance slip is not sufficient it must be your pink slip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Subsection 2 is for private property eg farmer on his own fields and not using the trail system. That is certainly the intent, no question. Just wondering how the trail permit is otherwise defined. Someone mentioned recently that the STOP officers act on behalf the landowner in accordance with the Tresspass act, which indicates to me that permit holders must be considered occupants while on the subscribed trail. Otherwise, everyone, trail permit or not, is trespassing. If farmer Joe invites me over to go on a tour on his property, I do not need a permit, a license, or anything, correct? I am an occupant of his property so long as he wants me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 That is certainly the intent, no question. Just wondering how the trail permit is otherwise defined. Someone mentioned recently that the STOP officers act on behalf the landowner in accordance with the Tresspass act, which indicates to me that permit holders must be considered occupants while on the subscribed trail. Otherwise, everyone, trail permit or not, is trespassing. Trail Patrol (not STOP) act on behalf of the club as agents for the landowner under the Trespass Act. The permit holders simply have permission to travel across the specified portion of the property. STOP enforce the MVSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Trail Patrol (not STOP) act on behalf of the club as agents for the landowner under the Trespass Act. The permit holders simply have permission to travel across the specified portion of the property. Touché. Still, the permit holders must be considered occupants under the Tresspass act, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Touché. Still, the permit holders must be considered occupants under the Tresspass act, no? I don't believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If farmer Joe invites me over to go on a tour on his property, I do not need a permit, a license, or anything, correct? I am an occupant of his property so long as he wants me there. Yes as long as Farmer Joe is with you, you should be safe, one would think. But I've never seen a STOP check on private land, its always been on crown land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't believe so. What are they considered then? Not saying you're wrong. Just trying to understand. Kind of hard to fully obey a law without a full understanding of it. But I've never seen a STOP check on private land, its always been on crown land. I have been stopped by police on several occasions on private land. They wanted the full rundown of paperwork. I had no problem with complying, but still interested in understanding the law. What is the difference between visiting farmer Joe to tour his land and paying farmer Joe rent to tour his land? The latter is definitely considered occupation of the land. Is it because money exchanged hands? What about logging operations? They typically do not pay rent to occupy the land but sometimes access the trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 This has probably been asked and answered a dozen times, but.. Does anyone know if there a speed limit on ice ?(to the best of your knowledge - i.e. no one's going to quote the 'answer provider' on this. Internet advice is free, and you get what you pay for). Take, for example, Georgian Bay, miles from any shore. (not interested in breaking any records, but just curious since I have to keep up with that maniac, Slomo ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceman Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Speed on ice. I asked last year and was told only between stakes on an offical OFSC trail Next and here we go again...can someone show me where it states that an operator of a snowmobile, on an OFSC trail must carry and produce a copy of the current year OFSC trail permit receipt.(green or yellow???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 What are they considered then? Not saying you're wrong. Just trying to understand. Kind of hard to fully obey a law without a full understanding of it. I have been stopped by police on several occasions on private land. They wanted the full rundown of paperwork. I had no problem with complying, but still interested in understanding the law. What is the difference between visiting farmer Joe to tour his land and paying farmer Joe rent to tour his land? The latter is definitely considered occupation of the land. Is it because money exchanged hands? What about logging operations? They typically do not pay rent to occupy the land but sometimes access the trails. I believe you are on the right track. Clubs do not pay rent and that allows the landowners to be covered by our insurance. Clubs do sometimes pay for things like crop damage but it is on an individual and documented basis, AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Speed on ice. I asked last year and was told only between stakes on an offical OFSC trail Next and here we go again...can someone show me where it states that an operator of a snowmobile, on an OFSC trail must carry and produce a copy of the current year OFSC trail permit receipt.(green or yellow???) As for speed, give up Canuck! There is no way you will keep up with Slomo! He has been trained by STG! AFAIK, there is no speed limit on ice, even between the stakes. And as for the green copy, it does have printed on it "Customer Receipt: Please carry this proof of purchase with you." "Please" implies to me that it is not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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