Diceman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 COMPLETELY AGREE. And 180$ for a permit....seriously.... That's 3 lift tickets at blue mountain. 3months and 30000km of trails is worth way more than that. why again is it unwise to do it every year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 When you run the same promotion at the same time every year for 5 years you are very likely to have reached your target audience which is the group that either haven't tried snowmobiling on a trail system but more likely former permit buyers who we are enticing to bring back into the habit of buying a permit. Those people have had plenty of opportunity to try Our Trails and decide yes or now. Many of these are now conditioned to freeload on a 3 day Family Day Long Weekend which in most cases is the busiest weekend of the year when the paying customers should be enjoying what they paid for on their prime weekend. It screws it up for everyone including the so-called newbies who come out somewhat inexperienced and find many trails in less than stellar conditions and high volumes if traffic. Most businesses, motels for example, never give away their rooms when they are known to be in high demand, why do we? Some plan to combine the free Quebec and Ontario weekends with a short term pass. In addition, it is too late in the year to encourage sales in that year. Two suggestions, don't do it every year and pick another weekend, preferably in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 well I see your point but will never be convinced that if you end that weekend then people are going to buy the pass because the free weekend is gone....someone on here earlier said many on this site are hard gore sledders.....they would pay high price for a pass and never question the value....many however are guys who have older sleds,, only ride in their area if trails are open and do not trailer anywhere to ride....those are the guys who will question the cost or value of the pass if trails are not open in their area...few years ago the trails in New Hamburg did not open at all...for a local guy who will not trailer may think twice about a pass if its a good possibility trails will not be open in his area ....I think alot of sledders do not have an enclosed trailer, newer machines and travel weekends and stay in motels...there just lads with older sleds that hope to rip around abit locally....I know that our local clubhouse told me that they did not see alot more traffic because of the free weekend...and as for inexperienced riders, I think I would rather drive passed some of the newbies than the race wannabees that drive like idiots and run you off the trails....thats why so many guys say they ride week days only.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 So what does the Free Family Day Weekend accomplish for the latter group you mention? Â Answer - An opportunity to use the trails free of charge (Freeload) with almost no likelihood that they will buy a Trail Pass in the future. Â Yes, I agree that some southern riders who do not want to travel more than an hour are in a predicament if the weather/snow is a problem but the Try Our Trails program doesn't fix that dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We had 247 Try Our Trails No Cost Permits this year. How to convert those is the question. Firstly, I think we need to END this program as it has served its purpose. That will create some additional sales for sure. It is unwise to have it every year. true it has become a take advantage of the trails weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Seen a lot of new iron on the trails this year. Chatting with my dealer at sled show in Barrie yesterday tells me sleds sales are good. I still have trouble believing lower trail permit prices are the answer... having snow is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So what does the Free Family Day Weekend accomplish for the latter group you mention? Â Answer - An opportunity to use the trails free of charge (Freeload) with almost no likelihood that they will buy a Trail Pass in the future. Â Yes, I agree that some southern riders who do not want to travel more than an hour are in a predicament if the weather/snow is a problem but the Try Our Trails program doesn't fix that dilemma. well to me its getting new people involved...getting families and their kids possibly exposed to the sport ...making memories so as theses kids get older they will buy sleds and perhaps volunteer...they could also be prospective landowners who had a positive experience or memory from that weekend..like I said earlier I know a few families that looked forward to that weekend because at that point in their life they could not afford to buy passes, snowmobile on a semi regular bases...acouple years later they all have 2 machines and all machines have passes......I will agree that some dorks ride all year without a pass and print the free weekend pass of and put it on their sleds..those idiots would drive the trails anyway...I would have no issue with them changing it to just a regular weekend...I think vintage pass( I buy 2 every year) is more of an issue and lost revenue than the free weekend...funny to think in a few years a viper will be a vintage sled..lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 well to me its getting new people involved...getting families and their kids possibly exposed to the sport ...making memories so as theses kids get older they will buy sleds and perhaps volunteer...they could also be prospective landowners who had a positive experience or memory from that weekend..like I said earlier I know a few families that looked forward to that weekend because at that point in their life they could not afford to buy passes, snowmobile on a semi regular bases...acouple years later they all have 2 machines and all machines have passes......I will agree that some dorks ride all year without a pass and print the free weekend pass of and put it on their sleds..those idiots would drive the trails anyway...I would have no issue with them changing it to just a regular weekend...I think vintage pass( I buy 2 every year) is more of an issue and lost revenue than the free weekend...funny to think in a few years a viper will be a vintage sled..lol... Â that is why the vintage sled has been frozen at the current year until the qualifying age for a sled reaches 20 years old instead of 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The permit is cheap! I just spent 400 on fuel to take two sleds to cochrane, on one trip! I trailered twice this year and rode from home for 5 weeks too. If you take time to see other area's when there is no snow at home, it is amazing value. I seen no shortage of trailers coming to or from the north this winter either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 having snow is the answer Last two winters have been great for sled sales. Lots of people have been upgrading because of this. Makes people forget about the real bad winter three years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hey... that's my line. We are all paying for the Pan Am games. My goal is to get out of town while they are on. I will never use any of the facilities that are seeing millions of tax payer money poured into Hardwood Hills Mountain Bike Park and Caledon Equestrian Centre. Plus there is a shooting range. All paid for with tax dollars... However Bucking Pig justifies that by saying everyone pays into it while it would only be snowmobile owners paying into the blended val tag trail permit. But then again he already gets a free val tag. You and I pay for his free val tag but he is okay with that.   Here we go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Okay so the next question being devils advocate. How is it fair for the province to charge us $15 annually for the val tag since we don't seem to get anything for it? How about they do it like a trailer. One time registration fee and it is done. How is it fair that we all pay the $15 val tag fee when northern Ontario doesn't and as is obvious right now they seem to be able to get to use the snowmobile longer than the rest of us that do pay for the val tag. Simple its fair! We get everything from the Ontario Government cause we are spoiled right? Â Next your going to be saying you pay for all our roads! But hey 1 million plus of us and 2 two lane highways full of potholes and almost a disaster to drive but only part way across the north, half dozen secondary unpaved full of holes and heaves blacktop roads and a ton of gravel roads many maintained by the logging companies. Compared to 10 million with a dozen plus multi lane with huge raised exchanges, some 12 lanes wide and too many to count secondary two lane highways (better then my main highway) and I'm not sure if there even is any gravel roads. Can we have 10% of the road budget? Â Here we go again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 true it has become a take advantage of the trails weekend  I agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Simple its fair! We get everything from the Ontario Government cause we are spoiled right? Â Next your going to be saying you pay for all our roads! But hey 1 million plus of us and 2 two lane highways full of potholes and almost a disaster to drive but only part way across the north, half dozen secondary unpaved full of holes and heaves blacktop roads and a ton of gravel roads many maintained by the logging companies. Compared to 10 million with a dozen plus multi lane with huge raised exchanges, some 12 lanes wide and too many to count secondary two lane highways (better then my main highway) and I'm not sure if there even is any gravel roads. Can we have 10% of the road budget? Â Here we go again! Â NO... what I am saying is simply this... we all pay for things we will never use. We all subsidize through our tax dollars services and facilities in other parts of the province and country that we will never use. You do I do everyone does. I am just tired of hearing the comment of I don't want to pay for something I will never use when there is any mention of any type regarding money from a snowmobile val tag being allocated to snowmobile trails. Especially when the person making the comment doesn't pay anything for the val tag for the snowmobile in the first place. Â So that is where I point out some of the countless other scenarios that we all pay into that we will all never use. Just part of life in Canada. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I say we should move the free weekend to Christmas time. Make it the last weekend in December. If people want to trailer to say cochrane then maybe they will and then buy a pass the following week. I know people will travel if there is an incentive to do so. Or add processing fee to the current promotion, that would help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Our resident Cliff Claven has spoken , so he must be right , and us Northern folks from Parry Sound on up to Atikokan west are just sucking on the teat of Southern Ontario's hospitality..................  Ironically.....on any other day or water cooler debate you can be sure our resident Cliff Claven would demand that systems be self sufficient and user pay. But when to comes to his OFSC fees , he prefers the innocent non trail user snowmachine owners pay his way, on top of the taxes they already pay towards his OFSC. You see Cliff... that is the point you are missing , we folks in the north don't mind paying taxes and have them used for highways or water lock systems , or parks, or even snowmachine trail bridges we don't use , we just don't want to increase our payments with new user fees that might be up to $185 more than what we would otherwise pay.on top of the taxes going to those things .............and since you are so obessed with me and Bucking Pig and Sasquatch not paying our $15 val tag fee every three years , I will send you a cheque , you can put it towards your $10,000 new snowmachine. Unfortunately the mail truck might be slow getting to you because our roads are pretty bad up here and we ain't got much learnen to know how to fill out a form, but be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I say we should move the free weekend to Christmas time. Make it the last weekend in December. If people want to trailer to say cochrane then maybe they will and then buy a pass the following week. I know people will travel if there is an incentive to do so. Or add processing fee to the current promotion, that would help too. Â any weekend except the long weekend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Our resident Cliff Claven has spoken , so he must be right , and us Northern folks from Parry Sound on up to Atikokan west are just sucking on the teat of Southern Ontario's hospitality..................  Ironically.....on any other day or water cooler debate you can be sure our resident Cliff Claven would demand that systems be self sufficient and user pay. But when to comes to his OFSC fees , he prefers the innocent non trail user snowmachine owners pay his way, on top of the taxes they already pay towards his OFSC. You see Cliff... that is the point you are missing , we folks in the north don't mind paying taxes and have them used for highways or water lock systems , or parks, or even snowmachine trail bridges we don't use , we just don't want to increase our payments with new user fees that are $185 more than what we would otherwise pay.on top of the taxes going to those things .............and since you are so obessed with me and Bucking Pig and Sasquatch not paying our $15 val tag fee every three years , I will send you a cheque , you can put it towards your $10,000 new snowmachine. Unfortunately the mail truck might be slow getting to you because our roads are pretty bad up here and we ain't got much learnen to know how to fill out a form, but be patient.  Panther340  Who ever said anything about you paying $185. Not me. Never once suggested you pay $185 ever. Never even came close. You just keep lamenting that you don't want to pay for trails that you never use because you only ride your property etc. What I believe was suggested by the OFSC as a possibility at one time was to solicit funding from the $15 val tag fee be put towards the trails. You know the $15 that you don't pay for. I also don't recall anywhere that there was mention of those who get the val tag for free having to start paying for it either.  However the poor hard done by northern Panther 340 regular as clock work will come out right on schedule and make his same statement of "I don't want to pay for trails I will never use". Nobody is asking you to.  At some point in time someone probably referenced that other places such as I believe Saskatchewan changed their permit model to have it tied to the val tag where the val tag is the trail permit. I highly doubt that would ever happen in Ontario as I can't see the OFSC giving up control of the revenue from the trail permits and the dispersal of that money.  And of course our resident spokesperson for the north speaks for everyone in that region it seems as everyone in that region will never use the trails ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The permit is cheap! I just spent 400 on fuel to take two sleds to cochrane, on one trip! I trailered twice this year and rode from home for 5 weeks too. If you take time to see other area's when there is no snow at home, it is amazing value. I seen no shortage of trailers coming to or from the north this winter either. to determine value on anything is a very personal thing.....some think saving $500 on a $2500 all inclusive trip for a week is great value but others like myself thinks its not...I am not a trip guy so would not think its great value at even $1000 for a week....I agree that you do see lots of trailers on the road but for every trailer you see there are I am guessing 50 plus guys who do not trailer and just drive locally in their district...bottom line is if you like or want to do something you will justify it anyway you can... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I will stir the pot a little if that's all right? I have said this for yrs,and have heard all the pros & cons but will put it out there again! Screw all this bs with early price,classic price all of it ! One price , say $200.00 for all sleds with license renewal period. Brings money to clubs all year long!! Flame on,I can take it!! Â Well Cliff you may want to re read the thread , you obviously missed this one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther340 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I also don't recall anywhere that there was mention of those who get the val tag for free having to start paying for it either.   And of course our resident spokesperson for the north speaks for everyone in that region it seems as everyone in that region will never use the trails ever. HMM you are the one that are lamenting us not paying the $15........ and I never stated "everyone in the region will never use the trails ever" Enough is enough  "Having a discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, poop on the board, a strut around like it's victorious!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Â Well Cliff you may want to re read the thread , you obviously missed this one ! Â Did I suggest that...nope... not me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 HMM you are the one that are lamenting us not paying the $15........ and I never stated "everyone in the region will never use the trails ever" Enough is enough  "Having a discussion with you is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, poop on the board, a strut around like it's victorious!"  As I said a while ago we agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve c Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think most people are not thinking what would be the best for the OFSC, but what is the cheapest way for me to use the trails. Â Snowmobiling is an expensive sport and if you want to snowmobile you are going to have to pay for it. Â I paid the early bird price for my permit as I have done every year. Â This year I only managed to get out once, for 100 km. Â Other years I have only managed to get out for a weeks worth of riding. Â Have I paid too much for my permit? I don't think so. Â Will I be buying a full years permit next year? I most certainly will. Â Will I get out more on my sled next year? I have no idea, even if I do not get out once, my permit price is worth it because I am helping fund this sport of snowmobiling. Â The one thing that bothers me the most is the people riding the trails with no permit, they are basically stealing from the rest of us that have bought a permit. Â There should be much larger fines for not having a permit, better yet, why not make it that if you are caught with no permit, you lose your sled. Â They do it with fishing, if you are caught with no fishing license you can lose all your gear. Â That may make more people buy a permit, or if they get caught the OFSC will have more money by selling off their sleds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I think most people are not thinking what would be the best for the OFSC, but what is the cheapest way for me to use the trails. Â Snowmobiling is an expensive sport and if you want to snowmobile you are going to have to pay for it. Â I paid the early bird price for my permit as I have done every year. Â This year I only managed to get out once, for 100 km. Â Other years I have only managed to get out for a weeks worth of riding. Â Have I paid too much for my permit? I don't think so. Â Will I be buying a full years permit next year? I most certainly will. Â Will I get out more on my sled next year? I have no idea, even if I do not get out once, my permit price is worth it because I am helping fund this sport of snowmobiling. Â The one thing that bothers me the most is the people riding the trails with no permit, they are basically stealing from the rest of us that have bought a permit. Â There should be much larger fines for not having a permit, better yet, why not make it that if you are caught with no permit, you lose your sled. Â They do it with fishing, if you are caught with no fishing license you can lose all your gear. Â That may make more people buy a permit, or if they get caught the OFSC will have more money by selling off their sleds. Â I like the concept... I recall years ago seeing a number of game wardens and OPP at the only road in and out of the Nottawasga River mouth. The one game warden pointed out the truck, boat and trailer in the parking lot and saying it will be up to the court if he gets it all back. Not just his fishing gear. Apparently the guy was so far over the limit it was just too blatant to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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