Viperules700 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lots of money will flow early when all of the clubs sell 120k permits by nov 1st! Xmas may come early for your club Sasquatch and hopefully you can get the funds for that much needed bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 You are correct, 30%. I don't understand where you get 37% for equalization. District 5 does not recieve equalization payments. We get our 30% of each permit sold and 3 payments based off grooming hours. Do you really think that is unfair? The 37% is right in the FFC document but it doesn't mean that your district will get 37%. OFSC puts 37% of permit sales into the equalization fund and the district will get money based on admin costs, trail length and grooming hours. This is to be distributed fairly amongst the clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The 37% is right in the FFC document but it doesn't mean that your district will get 37%. OFSC puts 37% of permit sales into the equalization fund and the district will get money based on admin costs, trail length and grooming hours. This is to be distributed fairly amongst the clubs. The 37% is right in the FFC document but it doesn't mean that your district will get 37%. OFSC puts 37% of permit sales into the equalization fund and the district will get money based on admin costs, trail length and grooming hours. This is to be distributed fairly amongst the clubs. I thought grooming hours was thrown out because some clubs were idling groomers all night long! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Not with the Fleet Tracking System that should eliminate anyone trying to cheat as it has the tracks along with time. Apparently they are moving to an improved new system this year, more to overcome the problems reporting from areas where cellular service was non-existent or spotty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sledjunk Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Yeah! It is SPOT based. I figure nearly a million dollars wasted on the old system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I thought grooming hours was thrown out because some clubs were idling groomers all night long! They drastically reduced the amount they pay out per hour so it doesn't pay clubs to idle their groomers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 They drastically reduced the amount they pay out per hour so it doesn't pay clubs to idle their groomers. it never should have that is fraud. gps became needed then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dweese Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yeah! It is SPOT based. I figure nearly a million dollars wasted on the old system. SPOT is the leader in GPS Tracking, wonder who sold them the bag of goods on the old system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogirl69 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Since you seem to think you know so much, you would realize that your district gets an equalization payment, that is your operating money along with the permits you sell. With ffc you also get three payments based on submission of your groomer logs. Don't spew this crap that your hard done by, this is a provicial system and we are all working together. I don't cry because we sell 900 permits, keep $30 of each permit and get no equalization payment. It is what makes the system work. Does you club pay groomer operators? Gee Wildman,looks like I hit a nerve. Why are you so defensive? Yes our District gets equalization payments. We also apply for groomers through the groomer replacement fund and apply for grants for major trail work. Most groomer operators are paid too. We have been granted new groomers over the last few years but it can't keep up with the old fleet we have. We have also received grant money for some major trail work due to flooding, bridges etc. As I recall your Club leased a new groomer and only put a few hours for that season on it due to little snow, then rather than swap the tracks on a new leased tractor it was just easier to buy it out. Must be nice. You say we are not hard done by. Well there are Clubs in Central Ontario who are broke and in debt. There are Clubs and Districts who can make it through this winter then that will be it. Not able to pay the 25% up front to get grant money for trail work or cough up to 20-30% of the cost of a new groomer from the groomer replacement fund. Plenty of the groomers in Central Ontario are old and have many hours on them. Some over 10,000 hours and are now down and need funds to get up and running before the next season. This won't happen. Is is a North vs South issue? Don't care. Reality is, if people in the south want a place to ride when there is no snow at home some money from the clubs and districts need to cough up some cash. You got lucky last year being able to ride at home and if you think that will repeat year after year, good luck. So lets do some math. Your club got $27,000 from your permit sales alone. Plus you have some large fund raisers too. That is a huge amount of money to maintain 150km of trails for an average of what, 4 weeks? Lets hope something productive comes out of the AGM in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 What people forget is how much traffic the south gets, when there is snow. The hours on groomers pile up quickly and since season is short, we need good equipment to keep permit buyers happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 What people forget is how much traffic the south gets, when there is snow. The hours on groomers pile up quickly and since season is short, we need good equipment to keep permit buyers happy. Bolding shows the key words. Central Ontario always has a lot of traffic, whether there is a lot of snow or not. Traffic really goes up when there is little to no snow down south. Central and Northern Ontario also have to groom over rock which is extremely hard on the groomers and drags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Bolding shows the key words. Central Ontario always has a lot of traffic, whether there is a lot of snow or not. Traffic really goes up when there is little to no snow down south. Central and Northern Ontario also have to groom over rock which is extremely hard on the groomers and drags. And it is all relative as to what you define as Central, South, North etc. I know in the Port Severn area we have a lot of rock to deal with as well as bogs etc. Another factor to remember is how far people are willing to drive to ge sledding. If I recall correctly the vast majority in the survey that was taken showed that they were a 2 to 3 hour maximum travel time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Gee Wildman,looks like I hit a nerve. Why are you so defensive? Yes our District gets equalization payments. We also apply for groomers through the groomer replacement fund and apply for grants for major trail work. Most groomer operators are paid too. We have been granted new groomers over the last few years but it can't keep up with the old fleet we have. We have also received grant money for some major trail work due to flooding, bridges etc. As I recall your Club leased a new groomer and only put a few hours for that season on it due to little snow, then rather than swap the tracks on a new leased tractor it was just easier to buy it out. Must be nice. You say we are not hard done by. Well there are Clubs in Central Ontario who are broke and in debt. There are Clubs and Districts who can make it through this winter then that will be it. Not able to pay the 25% up front to get grant money for trail work or cough up to 20-30% of the cost of a new groomer from the groomer replacement fund. Plenty of the groomers in Central Ontario are old and have many hours on them. Some over 10,000 hours and are now down and need funds to get up and running before the next season. This won't happen. Is is a North vs South issue? Don't care. Reality is, if people in the south want a place to ride when there is no snow at home some money from the clubs and districts need to cough up some cash. You got lucky last year being able to ride at home and if you think that will repeat year after year, good luck. So lets do some math. Your club got $27,000 from your permit sales alone. Plus you have some large fund raisers too. That is a huge amount of money to maintain 150km of trails for an average of what, 4 weeks? Lets hope something productive comes out of the AGM in September. Yup, you did hit a nerve, you do with many of your opinions towards geographical locations other than yours. Passion nore pride know geographical boundrys. Whether my area gets enough snow, in your opinion, to be a part of the federation is not relative, so it shouldn't bother me yet it still does, and I would imagine that is because I believe each club and district has a part in making the system work. I assume from many of the comments I read in various places,, not all feel the way I do. We groomed around 900 hrs this past year, if the average wage for grooming is 15/hr we have close to 15k between payroll remittance and administration. We don't pay operators, we are a complete volunteer club. Over the years that adds up. Obviously it is not that much every year, I believe our average is around 500 hrs. We sell allot of permits, and put a great deal back into the system that is distributed province wide. I am sorry if that is not enough to satisfy you, I am sorry if we run our club in an efficient manner. District 5 doesn't make the rules nore the policies and procedures that we as a federation follow. If your club is coming up short, you need to find a way of selling more permits, operating more efficiently or have fundraisers. Looking down at other locations and blaming them for your short comings will not fix your problems. Sorry to all yous that think defending my district/club from this type of scrutiny is unproductive, I have passion for my sport, and I am entitled to defend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Not sure of how prevelant it is or is not however I have heard talk of sweetheart nepotism deals made by some clubs. Something to the effect of... my brother can put in that bridge for $X thousand. The assumption is made that it must be a good deal because it is someones brother. They don't validate the cost and go ahead. Too late someone realizes that it could have been done for considerably less by someone else. That is quite the accusation Why not report those clubs or is this plain old hear say? I find it funny how some make these wild accusation yet sit back and do nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02Sled Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 That is quite the accusation Why not report those clubs or is this plain old hear say? I find it funny how some make these wild accusation yet sit back and do nothing Read what I said.... Not sure of how prevelant it is or is not however I have heard talk of sweetheart nepotism deals. Second hand information, rumour etc. I don't know which, is what I said. I haven't personally seen it myself but others have made comments suggesting that. Are they valid? I don't know. Sometimes however where there is smoke there is fire and sometimes not. The point is that we all should exercise due diligence to ensure we are obtaining the optimal value that we can and that those types of things don't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasquatch777 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 We are eating our own. Us vs them is in the past unfortunately. Yukon if only that where true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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