I understand that. I'm not sure where that got blurred or by whom.   Long story short, after these 21 pages - the conclusion is we are friged - the system as it sits will only continue to retract as volunteers and funds dry up till there is nothing left.    We're all out of ideas, everything has been thought up/through and there are no more answers or solutions.   Discussion over.   Ride safe guys,        

This is an overly complicated mess.    Blow it up and charge what should be charged for permit pticing.. Lobby the Government, Pay the volunteers, pay the landowners, screw the MTO. Merge with the OFATV, HATVA, etc.................Blow it up and create our own organization answerable to none     Also stop buying 30,000 sleds and the manufacturers will freak. Imagine BRP losing 50% revenues in Ontario. They would step in and join us for their own sake,          

Two different things here @Spiderman - money MTO gets from the permit specifically vs. money the province gets from the sledding industry. From the permit dollars - my understanding is nothing. From the sledding industry - millions are received as a by-product of sledding, I suggested billions, but I know there was a very in depth report that spoke specifically to the financial impact sledding has in Ontario in so many ways, I even think there was an ad placed on the financial benefits.    As for your tag - you need to actually get checked by OPP on the trail for them to confirm that and issue ticket if required and val tag is not valid.....as for the permit, that will be hit or miss, as noted on here, not all officers are checking the permit for some reason but just the val tag.... But you are going down a rabbit hole now - technically speaking since both permit and val tag are controlled & issued by the MTO, both should be always jointly checked by the OPP  !  

Welcome aboard!

Sorry Nutter, you lost me a bit on this one.   Stoney mentioned from what he heard - the MTO got nothing in return. That was my point, it's not nothing, they get lots in return.  Stoney understood it to be $0.00. No need to convince me, I never thought it was nothing.    If I buy a pass today, and my val tag expires in January - are the MTO going to show up and take my pass back? Force me to buy a new val tag?   On the bold, no, what I think is decisions were/are made with the best intentions at the time they happen.  Do I think some decision makers are left making hard decisions outside of their limitations and understanding - yes, in some cases I would believe that to be true. Nature of the beast in volunteer driven operations though.   To the last point, the feds don't even want gas powered cars on the road - so...there is that lol