LuvMyViper Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hey everyone... Great news, the PSSD is back in operation and the groomers are going out. Looks like the trails will be open for this weekend in the area. I am on the phone now and will post an update very soon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcsldr Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 It was on the Barrie news at 6 that trails should be open tomorrow. They explained the whole problem regarding why the charges were laid. Basically, even though they are a volunteer non profit organization, if they have paid employees, than they must abide by all the rules and regulations put forth in the Occupational Health and Safety Act. They interviewed PSSD and they suggested that if the fines go through they will basically shut the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveH Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 This is great news about them tarting to groom again. But....this will be resolved to te satisfaction of the snowmobilers one way or another. Too much tourism rests on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdooman Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread. way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14 snow Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thanks Rick. Saw it at 11 on Achannel and they said things should back to normal for Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan XC700 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread.way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... Could be very difficult, since some trails take 8-10 hours to complete a grooming (sometimes longer) and most of the grooming takes place at night to help the trails set up before sleds get back on it. Not many people can afford that kind of time if they already work full time..........just my $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanII Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread.way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... forgive my ignorance of Canadian Law (I'm from the states) but can't the clubs "sub-contract" the groomer operators. In the states the sub-contractor is there own entity and the clubs would not have the liability with the MOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveH Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 subcontracting is an EXCELLENT way to get around this liability. It would work, and this has been proven in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilbro Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 IMO sub contracting the grooming could be good to solve short term problems, it could lead to higher costs in the long run getting towards running trail system maintenance as a business. I don't know about all the grooming in Ont , but from some of the guys I have talked to the groomers that are paid are guys that haven't got a lot of other things on their plate and have the time to go out and do the work and are not being paid large money to do so. I think they still almost are being a volunteer to do so. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying they don't deserve too be paid appropiately. I'm saying givig up control shouldn't lightly be thought of by the club. What might be a good plan is to have a safety consultant contracted by the OFSC to send people to the clubs to train groomers and set the clubs up with suitable safety policies similarly to the way customers i work with do in the plants and institutions they oversee. The club administrators are going to have their hands full deciding ways to keep trails open with limited resourses and liabilties as volunteers. My hats off to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 subcontracting is an EXCELLENT way to get around this liability. It would work, and this has been proven in court. Subcontractors have to provide their own equipment. Good luck finding someone who owns or is willing to purchase a groomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcsldr Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I would think the onus is on the ofsc here. They are the governing/administrative body that should be providing all the necessary rules and regulations and informing all the clubs of their responsibilities. In this case i really do believe that the PSSD was unaware of what its responsibilities were in providing all of the necessary information as per the legislation. I sincerely hope that the charges are dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowmanII Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The club can still have total control. Here in the states instead of having an employment contract with the groomer operator, you could have a sub-contractor contract. The operator still uses the clubs equipment, but the operator pays his own taxes etc. They are NOT an employee. No control is giving up by the club, it can even be the same person the club has right now. The difference is the contract the club has with the operator. I don’t know if Canadian law allows this or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Sub contracting does not relinguish the employer from H & S responsibilities and MOL charges. There are still the same issues with respect to the responsibility of H & S policies, ensuring the sub contractor is properly trained and aware of dangers, eqipment integrity, supervision etc,etc. This has been proven in court as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 They are NOT an employee. I think you'll find there's enough precedence that says otherwise (even in the US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlar Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 You got a bunch socialist lawyers and wacko liberals running the joint up there....but some mighty fine trails (and folks). I'll be up for my annual trip the 3rd week of Feb (pS area). maybe see some of you up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslowsledder Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Not sure what the hold-up is but not seeing much groomer activity. Traveled today from Pointe Au Baril to Ardbeg thru what could best be described as bush type trails. On the way back passed the Northeast Georgian Bay groomer 10 km south of Pointe Au Baril, around 1 pm. Ran into a couple sledders in Parry Sound tonight, said they travelled the Sequin trail today, called it brutal. Wonder what's up? My opinion is that there was sufficient fresh snow for them to be grooming and packing for the weekend. Is there something I don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trax Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 We rode on some great trails today. We went out yesterday & pulled trees & branches from some trails so the groomer could get through faster last evening. It worked! Today's ride was worth the effort & we felt great about being able to lend a hand. We rode from Nobel north. There were a few areas that the snow was thin. Then shortly after, we were back into winter wonderland. I guess that's snow squalls for ya. I know that the groomers did a great job where snow was available and did their best where it was slim. We heard from others that the trails in Ardbeg, Dunchurch area were rough. Port Loring was short of snow as well. I heard that the groomer operator for Cramadog is no longer there and they only have a sled with a drag to groom with as no one knows how to run the machine. Can anyone confirm? Portage lake in Nobel is now staked. Thanks to the volunteer that used his Saturday afternoon to drill holes. Looks like the clubs are doing their best to get things cleaned up. Still need more cold & snow. I hope Mother Nature steps up to help out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Does the trail go under the hwy again heading to Portage I wish I could have been down there but personnal problems mean no more Parry Sound for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailMaker Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread.way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... So zdooman how many hours have you volunteered to snowmobiling this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailMaker Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread.way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... forgive my ignorance of Canadian Law (I'm from the states) but can't the clubs "sub-contract" the groomer operators. In the states the sub-contractor is there own entity and the clubs would not have the liability with the MOL. I't all about money isn't it ... there already isn't enough money to sustain the trail network ... subcontracting just costs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailMaker Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 We rode on some great trails today.We went out yesterday & pulled trees & branches from some trails so the groomer could get through faster last evening. It worked! Today's ride was worth the effort & we felt great about being able to lend a hand. We rode from Nobel north. There were a few areas that the snow was thin. Then shortly after, we were back into winter wonderland. I guess that's snow squalls for ya. I know that the groomers did a great job where snow was available and did their best where it was slim. We heard from others that the trails in Ardbeg, Dunchurch area were rough. Port Loring was short of snow as well. I heard that the groomer operator for Cramadog is no longer there and they only have a sled with a drag to groom with as no one knows how to run the machine. Can anyone confirm? Portage lake in Nobel is now staked. Thanks to the volunteer that used his Saturday afternoon to drill holes. Looks like the clubs are doing their best to get things cleaned up. Still need more cold & snow. I hope Mother Nature steps up to help out! Thanks Trax well put! OK who else out there got off their machine to lend a hand? One rock, one branch it all helps. Any other success stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslowsledder Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Yes, we cleared a considerable amount of brush Fri and Sat as well, just don't mention it, figure if we ride the trails then it goes without saying to do your part. I take back my statements of yesterday about grooming, rode this morning from Pointe Au Baril to Timmy's in Nobel and back. The trails for the most part were well groomed and a pleasure to ride . Don't think they'll last long though, very mild and a number of bad wash-outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trax Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Hey Freeze! The trail was will likely keep getting changed as the highway work continues. The Highway guys are pretty good about working around us. We went for a quick loop. On our way out again. Training day. Teachin the teenagers how to ride. Stressfull time...At least the trails are in fine form! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giddy UP Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hey Trax - that's great news. Glad to hear trails are open and being groomed again! Hopefully this mild spell won't set all the trails back to square one (again)! Geeeessssssh! I think the Sno Voyageurs here in Barrie have had to start over now 3 times this year! We always stop and clear branches and rocks when riding - it's just part of what we do as sledders. It also gives us a chance to stop take a break and take pictures!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdooman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 sorta answers my other question on the other thread.way out of this is not to have employees - operators should be volunteers. That might make finding people passionate enough to make the effort but .... So zdooman how many hours have you volunteered to snowmobiling this year? Not looking for a fight - just looking for a solution to prevent this in the future. But if you must know, I just now totalled it up.... 6 training classes at 7 hours each is 42 hours. Add to that travel time - One class was 5 hours round trip due to weather conditions. Others are about 3 hours. Class prep and follow up time - another 15 hours. Time to obtain materials 3 hours. Phone calls to set up classes, return inquiry calls, confirm class calls. Calls to procure materials... lost count. Procure 'extras' as give aways to promote goodwill. Personal travel costs. Certainly there are more that dont come to mind.... Pay? - Its all volunteer, Costs? - Out of pocket, unreimbursed. Am I happy about it? You becha! If I keep 1 - just one kid safe then my job is done and its all worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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