jrhz06 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 At what point do you consider a trail should change status from Available to Limited Availability? Is it based on percentage of mud or number of rocks or washouts? Whats your criteria for the difference between Limited and Available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 when grooming is no longer practical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 when grooming is no longer practical Our trails were limited most of the season, but well groomed. I say when bare spots start to appear, it should go limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You have flat areas . In the shield with the rocks and hills it is not unheard of to have a south facing slope that cannot hold snow but hundredsof miles of great riding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinerat Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Once the March sun hits the south facing slopes they are done here. A lot of the farmer's fields had limited snow on them so the mild week brought them down to mud in days. Not able to connect trails up due to no snow at the side of roads, fields have large bare sections and the south facing hills are bare. The protected bush areas still have good snow depth but you just can't get to them. A lot of the trails on the interactive map went from green to red in one day. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Our trails were limited most of the season, but well groomed. I say when bare spots start to appear, it should go limited. Our trails were open green most of the season.....short as it was. The local GTSA trails were great as always. It is all about land leveling. Very important where the trail goes through farm land. MAJOR part of trail prep and should be given credit for from the OFSC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 At what point do you consider a trail should change status from Available to Limited Availability? Is it based on percentage of mud or number of rocks or washouts? Whats your criteria for the difference between Limited and Available. as soon as you have hazards it becomes Limited trail can be 95+% perfect but a little washout here or there, you have to list it as Limited This way riders will know of the possibility of that potential hazard on the trail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonCalling Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I like the definition by FreezerBurnt best, but I do believe this is a great topic for discussion at next AGM. To my knowledge it is left up to each club to list it as they see fit. (however, I could be wrong) but down in D5 for our club anyway we report to the distric whether it should be green or yellow or red. I personally would like to see some sort of standard. There may in fact be one, but I am not aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share Posted March 12, 2013 There's no standard, thats why I asked. I tend to agree with FreezerBurnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme600 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 as soon as you have hazards it becomes Limited trail can be 95+% perfect but a little washout here or there, you have to list it as Limited This way riders will know of the possibility of that potential hazard on the trail I am not a volunteer of a club but I am a rider in a variety of areas. I really like what FreezerBurnt says!!! This is my impression when I see yellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbakernbay Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 I also agree with FB as well as WildBill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It is the clubs call on the status. There is a guide from the OFSC but everyone seems to interpret it differently. Limited available (yellow) is when the trail is passable for marginal snowmobiling. Is 95% perfect considered marginal? The OFSC has guidelines for signage too. What I think is a hazard may not be a hazard for someone else and therefore no slow sign goes up. It's all very subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It is the clubs call on the status. There is a guide from the OFSC but everyone seems to interpret it differently. Limited available (yellow) is when the trail is passable for marginal snowmobiling. Is 95% perfect considered marginal? The OFSC has guidelines for signage too. What I think is a hazard may not be a hazard for someone else and therefore no slow sign goes up. It's all very subjective. A washout is NOT subjective Example :My old club had perfect trails in March 07 and we had a warm spell, which created to washouts, one was 5 feet wide and 2 feet deep, and the rest of the trails were in great shape, only 2 washouts on 100kms of trail You can't list a washout as per OFSC guide, you have either OPEN/Green, LIMITED/Yellow or CLOSED/Red You say your trail is OPEN and there is a serious hazard like the one above, you are just asking for it IMO, being listed as LIMITED you should be very aware of HAZARDS You of course warn riders on the trail with SLOW signs just before the HAZARD Another is you have 100-200kms of trail and have unsafe ice crossings, early and late season, you can't list as OPEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 A washout is NOT subjective Example :My old club had perfect trails in March 07 and we had a warm spell, which created to washouts, one was 5 feet wide and 2 feet deep, and the rest of the trails were in great shape, only 2 washouts on 100kms of trail You can't list a washout as per OFSC guide, you have either OPEN/Green, LIMITED/Yellow or CLOSED/Red You say your trail is OPEN and there is a serious hazard like the one above, you are just asking for it IMO, being listed as LIMITED you should be very aware of HAZARDS You of course warn riders on the trail with SLOW signs just before the HAZARD Another is you have 100-200kms of trail and have unsafe ice crossings, early and late season, you can't list as OPEN Washout like that is nasty. Your original post stated a little wash out here or there. If you list your whole trail as limited because of this hazard go for it. IMO that hazard better be delt with PDQ. Reroute, flagging tape, water on trail signs or you may be filling out an ORS report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Washout like that is nasty. Your original post stated a little wash out here or there. If you list your whole trail as limited because of this hazard go for it. IMO that hazard better be delt with PDQ. Reroute, flagging tape, water on trail signs or you may be filling out an ORS report. Something happens on a trail...you're still completing an ORS report. Available, Limited Availability or otherwise. I'm quite surprised at how vague the criteria is on trail status. A washout could be two inches deep and three feet long or two feet deep and twenty feet long. They're both washouts or basically a hazard on a trail. So do you change the status of the whole entire trail, or a section? It would be great if the IAFG had an "alert" that when you hovered your mouse over it a pop-up would display the exact problem for that particular section of trail. And yes..totally agree..once you know about a issue it is negligent to do nothing to mitigate the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 What about cases were the groomer turns around just before a steep inbankment. Riders follow the groomed trail at higher speed and end up going down the embankment. Maybe have to stake groomer turn around area's and put signs saying groomer access only. This occurs more often then you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreezerBurnt Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Washout like that is nasty. Your original post stated a little wash out here or there. If you list your whole trail as limited because of this hazard go for it. IMO that hazard better be delt with PDQ. Reroute, flagging tape, water on trail signs or you may be filling out an ORS report. Something happens on a trail...you're still completing an ORS report. Available, Limited Availability or otherwise. I'm quite surprised at how vague the criteria is on trail status. A washout could be two inches deep and three feet long or two feet deep and twenty feet long. They're both washouts or basically a hazard on a trail. So do you change the status of the whole entire trail, or a section? It would be great if the IAFG had an "alert" that when you hovered your mouse over it a pop-up would display the exact problem for that particular section of trail. And yes..totally agree..once you know about a issue it is negligent to do nothing to mitigate the problem. Did I indicate we did nothing about it???? It was flagged and had SLOW signs as well as the proper paper work You can NOT put WATER on trail signs Reroute??? You just needed to slow down and go around the washout, hence the SLOW sign and flagging warning you The OFSC and RM tie your hands as too what you can do BTW I posted it here with pictures of said washout back in the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What about cases were the groomer turns around just before a steep inbankment. Riders follow the groomed trail at higher speed and end up going down the embankment. Maybe have to stake groomer turn around area's and put signs saying groomer access only. This occurs more often then you think. Um slow down? Just a thought. If you don't know the trail extra caution should be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What about cases were the groomer turns around just before a steep inbankment. Riders follow the groomed trail at higher speed and end up going down the embankment. Maybe have to stake groomer turn around area's and put signs saying groomer access only. This occurs more often then you think. I guess the person responsible for the trail signage must not think there was a hazard. If you signed the trail would you post slow signs? It's what the individual believes is a hazard, and don't forget the speed limit is 50 KPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 Did I indicate we did nothing about it???? It was flagged and had SLOW signs as well as the proper paper work You can NOT put WATER on trail signs Reroute??? You just needed to slow down and go around the washout, hence the SLOW sign and flagging warning you The OFSC and RM tie your hands as too what you can do BTW I posted it here with pictures of said washout back in the day Sounds like you did what you had to do. A local club here had an issue with water on the trail. They posted trail closed signs, water on trail signs and follow road to trail signs. They did what they had to do for their trail. Every club has their own issues in their areas and must deal with them accordingly. And don't forget they are all volunteers that interpret the guidelines differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftbuster Posted March 14, 2013 Share Posted March 14, 2013 What about cases were the groomer turns around just before a steep inbankment. Riders follow the groomed trail at higher speed and end up going down the embankment. Maybe have to stake groomer turn around area's and put signs saying groomer access only. This occurs more often then you think. I run our groomer and when we have low snow but trails are open, we often have to drag snow into bushes from both ends. Some have embankments at the ends and so on. We try to make our last pass follow the trail but not always possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Remember that this is an off road sport that you choose to use the trails at your own risk. You the rider should always drive within control and as if there may be a hazard over the next hill or around the next bend . VOLUNTEERS try very hard to make this sport as enjoyable as possible however situations beyond thier control may occur be preparedfor it. YOU ARE RESPONSABLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Remember that this is an off road sport that you choose to use the trails at your own risk. You the rider should always drive within control and as if there may be a hazard over the next hill or around the next bend . VOLUNTEERS try very hard to make this sport as enjoyable as possible however situations beyond thier control may occur be preparedfor it. YOU ARE RESPONSABLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY> and actions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shook Up Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Remember that this is an off road sport that you choose to use the trails at your own risk. You the rider should always drive within control and as if there may be a hazard over the next hill or around the next bend . VOLUNTEERS try very hard to make this sport as enjoyable as possible however situations beyond thier control may occur be preparedfor it. YOU ARE RESPONSABLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY> X2 We can only wish. Would it happen if the slow sign was eliminated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperules700 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 X2 We can only wish. Would it happen if the slow sign was eliminated? Half the time the riders are going to fast to see the slow signs anyway's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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