lakejoe Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 If you buy a trail permit and your club never opens their trails (due to weather) what happens to the permit fee??? District 5 is a joke for snow, I don't understand why there is even a trail system down here. All my trips so far this year have been 3-4 hours north, so it seems kind of ridiculous that my permit fee didn't go towards supporting those clubs. One thing I know for sure is that I won't be bying permits locally anymore. Sorry for the rant. I know that you can't control the weather, but why bother even having a District 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viper Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 If you buy a trail permit and your club never opens their trails (due to weather) what happens to the permit fee??? District 5 is a joke for snow, I don't understand why there is even a trail system down here. All my trips so far this year have been 3-4 hours north, so it seems kind of ridiculous that my permit fee didn't go towards supporting those clubs. One thing I know for sure is that I won't be bying permits locally anymore. Sorry for the rant. I know that you can't control the weather, but why bother even having a District 5? This year was tough to pick a club let alone a district, geeze the Northern clubs were even closed for a bit in mid January This has been an odd year to say the least. I do NOT regret buying where I did (Orangeville Dis 4) even though I have trailered past their trails all year to ride I have yet to put my track to their trails. I feel your frustration but lets face it the southern clubs need our support, if we don't support them then who will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 I also live in the district 5 area and have also wondered that question myself. After many years of putting money in this district and year after year I can only run the trails for 2-6 weeks at best. All 4 of my tags are bought up were we ride now. I also agree,Why bother,sure it is great to ride right outside your door but if that money went to an area that actually has a winter and needs the revenue why bother buying to support local trails. What % of the tags that you buy goes to the club anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Some areas in district 5 have had more snow and have their trails open more than some areas in district 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nith Valley Sledder Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Although District-5 clubs sell a lot of permits the lion's share of the money goes back to the OFSC to be re-distributed to clubs that don't have the permit sales. The clubs in D-5 may only keep from $20-$100 of the $200 permit price. They still have all of the expenses the northern clubs have. The D-5 clubs are using the same groomers the north uses and as such have the same mortgage to pay on them. The money is re-distributed based on the "Matrix" developed by the OFSC office based on weeks of grooming, km of trail and # of permits sold. If it wasn't for D-5 a lot of northern clubs wouldn't exist. Some years D-5 has better trails than a lot of northern areas and are open earlier. Most people buy their permit locally and ride locally. They don't trailer very far if they do at all. D-5 clubs generally have a lot more work to do to build and maintain their trails. The southern trails are put up every fall and taken down avery spring by usually a small, core group of volunteers. The northern clubs can usually leave their trails and signage in place year round. The southern clubs also have to deal with an ever changing trail system. It is common for trails to be shut down and re-routed due to yahoos pi$$ing off the landowners by doing stupid things like riding off of the trail and causing damage. There is generally a lot of good riding in D-5. This winter dictates that riding throughout the province is marginal at best. Nobody has the snow this year. Before people complain about the trails and where the money goes they should educate themselves on how things work. Get involved with the local club and see how much work goes into a trail and where all of the permit dollars are spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 So you don't know how much money goes to each club? I do volunteer and I am not pissed off I was only stating that a lot of money and effort goes into the trails that are usually open 1/3 of the time that northern trails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxz800 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 If you buy a trail permit and your club never opens their trails (due to weather) what happens to the permit fee??? District 5 is a joke for snow, I don't understand why there is even a trail system down here. All my trips so far this year have been 3-4 hours north, so it seems kind of ridiculous that my permit fee didn't go towards supporting those clubs. One thing I know for sure is that I won't be bying permits locally anymore. Sorry for the rant. I know that you can't control the weather, but why bother even having a District 5? well for me if i couldnt ride from the house a couple of times a season i wouldnt be in the sport ...this year i am realy wondering why i am in this sport ...but on the other hand i have trailered a 1000 miles to not take the sled off the trailer because of heavy rain the year the ice storm ripped through quebec..but i did get some seat time at the local gaspe bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nith Valley Sledder Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 So you don't know how much money goes to each club? The amount of money going to each club varies according to their position in the matrix. There is no set amount. The matrix is updated every year based on the previous 4 years of input data from each club. If you want to find out ask your club executive. They have a copy of the matrix that shows the data for every OFSC club in the province. If you stop building trails in D-5 then you will lose a major amount of permit sales that benefits the province as a whole. It is usually the dedicated sledder that trailers on a regular basis. Most permit buyers want to ride in their local area or they won't ride at all. The OFSC has studies proving this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchie Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 That helps me understand, as I thought most people trailered to do their riding! I can sure see why so many people are upset with the weather and trail conditions . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxr600Rider Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Thanks guys for the education on how the money is distributed between areas. The way I feel is that Snowmobiling is a awsome sport, but it is weather dependant and there is not much we can do about that. I would like to compliment district 9 for handling all of the traffic this past saturday and still being able with limited snow conditions to have decent trails. Tough year for district 5, but some years the trails this way are spectacular, funny how fast we forget last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakejoe Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 All good points and I guess I'm happier knowing that there's some method to the madness of permit rev distribution throughout the province. I just wonder how many more groomers there would be and how much better the trails would be in the districts that actually have a semi-reliable winter if 100% of the fees went to them? I understand the local riders want to ride local trails, but if you don't get enough snow and those trails are never open, they're not going to be able to ride them anyway. So how viable is it to continue to expect that those guys are even going to buy permits year after year? The whole district might not be a write off, but certainly the more southern clubs should just close up shop because even if they get 10% of the fees based on this magical "matrix" the ofsc has conjured up… if they never open, it seems like money wasted. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Buying trail permits in D5 seems insane to me, and I’m guilty as charged. Good discussion though guys! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 D5 has some of the nicest trails in the province. Sure, the snow may not be as predictable as points futher north, especially this year. But I for one am glad the trails are still built and maintained in the area. That said, I usually refrain from buying trail permits in low-snow years, so I'm not real worried about my permit dollars going to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiDooStu Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 AGHHHHHHHHHHHHh. Seriously!!! Look at past weather data people! Ontario is probably one of the most temperature variable areas in the entire world! Smack dab in the middle of the air mass battle field! We have ALWAYS experienced crappy freeze thaw cycles and snow is something you can never take for granted. There are all sorts of dates in the 50's 60's 70's 80's that have had 0cm of snow on the ground at the end of January (London, Ontario for example) source: environment canada's climate data centre. When you can ride from home it's a bonus. Some of the best trails in the province are in the south, take The Hanover-Neudstadt area for example! Now everyone cheer up, maybe 6 inches of snow from this storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Good points. I much prefer to ride from home whenever possible. Its more convenient obviously and less costly. But the last 2 years have seen poor conditions for the trails I live on (East of Waterloo). Open limited for just over 2 weeks last year and the groomer has not hit the trail once this year. I bought a new trailer this year and its earning its keep. I support my club but the OFSC slogan of buy where you ride is starting to affect my decisions. Next year I will buy one from my club and 2 others from another district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f3 800 Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I personally have no choice and have to trailer to trail ride at all. District 5 is a great area to ride in but unfortunately the way the weather is changing its less and less every year. Snow is at a minimum everywhere this season, but this has to be the worst year ever for places like Warwick and Strathroy. Both areas that used to get tonnes of snow all winter. I have even thought myself, why bother. Lets just hope next season is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 this season is a near replica of the 2006 season. With that being said, the average the groomers run around here is 4 to 5 weeks a year. They probably won't see that this year. There are still costs, they have to paint stakes, replace broken stakes and stolen signs and do seasonal groomer maintenance. The 1 thing allot of clubs are saving is fuel money, but I guess this reflects in the matrix and amount of money they keep from permit sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 unfortunately the way the weather is changing its less and less every year. While I have no reason to doubt your claim, some citation would be helpful here in light of SkiDooStu's post. Just saying we get less snow each year does not make it true. In fact, it was only a couple of years ago where we received the most snow in one year on record in the Southern Ontario region. Perhaps the problem is that the clubs have to be pickier about trail conditions today than yesteryear? I know someone mentioned in another thread that some trails that are closed today would normally be open in years' past, despite the low snow conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmied Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 it was only a couple of years ago where we received the most snow in one year on record in the Southern Ontario region. In 2009, our area (KW) had the snowiest winter in 70 years and even beat the all-time record of just over 200 centimeters of snow since 1939. Perhaps the problem is that the clubs have to be pickier about trail conditions today than yesteryear? I know someone mentioned in another thread that some trails that are closed today would normally be open in years' past, despite the low snow conditions. Even with all of that snow, our trails were washed away on Feb 7th. All of that snow came and went in 3 storm/thaw cycles. Almost down to the grass each time. I've also noticed that close to the end of the season, trails that are limited in March, would NEVER pass for limited in Dec or Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Looks like southern Ontario may get some snow. http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/storm_watch_stories3&stormfile=sontstorm_febeight_08_02_2010?ref=ccbox_weather_bottom_title Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
800X Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Why bother? Because we love our sport and we are optomists. What if d5 were the only area that had snow and there weren't any trails? We would kick ourselves in the ASS for shutting them down!! I say we cross our fingers and hope for more snow. Just remeber the season isn't over yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Just remeber the season isn't over yet. In fact, they are calling for 15cms of snow in D5 this week. I know the weatherman's word doesn't have much value around here, but we can still hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossy Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Just remeber the season isn't over yet. In fact, they are calling for 15cms of snow in D5 this week. I know the weatherman's word doesn't have much value around here, but we can still hope. Why has there been a thunder storm? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Why has there been a thunder storm? :poke: Not that I know of, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiDooStu Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I've only been around 28 years, but my entire life, growing up in SW ontario, all i can remember is melt and freeze cycles with unreliable snow. EC's climate site refutes the idea that we used to get "tons of snow" in this area. Last year and the year before were banner years for snow, but that didn't necessariliy mean that it lasted. I really do believe that it is a nostaglic notion that SW ontario used to be a winter wonderland where you could sled for 2 months uninterrupted. 2006 season, lakes were wide open until the end of january. then all of february was cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etonia2007 Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 We buy them because they are Trail permits, not snow permits. When the white stuff gets here I want somewhere to ride. Last Saturday we rode 220 km an hour away starting in Arthur, trails were as good as they were a week earlier in Cochrane 9 hours away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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