kennyboy Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 Took my brand new MXZX 1200 4-Tec Renegade out last night for the first time. My old sled was an '05 600sdi Renegade. I loved it and I could ride like the wind. I've never owned and off-road, 4-stroke anything. My intial thoughts: > it pulls like a dragster off the line and pulls hard right through the powerband. > it doesn't feel any heavier than my old sled. > it doesn't steer heavy (like I'd been told). > it blows through deep drifts like they're not there. > the secondary engages really low (well below 2000rpm) > the pilot skis don't seem to carve as well as the precision skis (even with the extra carbide on the outer keel). > it doesn't need brakes. As soon as you let off, you nearly go over the bars! Especially at low speeds. I'm hoping the learning curve isn't too long. I only rode it for an hour or so but this 4-stroke thing is gonna take some gettin' used to. It's a handful right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Quimby Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I agree with everything you said Kennyboy! The best part is that I rode over 110 Km's last weekend and the fuel gauge barely moved at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Rider Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I've got 100 miles on my new XTX. Dosen't feel any heavier than my old Gade, handles about the same, had no problems pushing thru 18" of powder yesterday. We'll see what it's like on groomed trails, but so far about the same as my old 2-stroke, except it seems to pull better out of the hole! BTW; It sounds WAY COOL, but I still miss the smell of synthetic 2 stroke oil, but don't miss buying it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 kennyboy please keep us posted on how the 1200 is working out . I'm looking at a new 4 stroke next year going Doo or Yamaha as I'v had to many engine problems on my 2 stroke Doo's . I'm hoping the 1200 works out as I'd like to stay with Ski-Doo . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyboy Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Will do. should be able to put 1000kms on it over the holidays and yes, it does sound really cool when you wind it up. Almost like a european sportscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 25, 2008 Share Posted December 25, 2008 I have 800 kms on my 1200 Gade! Best sled I have ever owned BAR NONE! It handles like a dream and without all the weight!! Pulls hard and is awesome on fuel!! The suspension is one of the best I've ever felt on any ride. I put on tons of miles on all kinds of sleds and I tell you The new Doo is a winner!! I love mine!! R7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyboy Posted December 30, 2008 Author Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Rider Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Snowtech says different, the Nytro is quicker out of the hole than the 4Tek, not by much, but still quicker. I know that mine has WAY more pull than my 800 PowerTek and is ahead of my brotherinlaws 1000 Gade up to 80MPH. So far I'm impressed...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxz800 Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Snowtech says different, the Nytro is quicker out of the hole than the 4Tek, not by much, but still quicker. I know that mine has WAY more pull than my 800 PowerTek and is ahead of my brotherinlaws 1000 Gade up to 80MPH. So far I'm impressed...... your brotherinlaws 1000 needs to be tuned a little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maple Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Snowtech says different, the Nytro is quicker out of the hole than the 4Tek, not by much, but still quicker. I know that mine has WAY more pull than my 800 PowerTek and is ahead of my brotherinlaws 1000 Gade up to 80MPH. So far I'm impressed...... your brotherinlaws 1000 needs to be tuned a little Maybe it's just his brother-in-law that needs to be tuned a little! :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidooer Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? Torque is the technical answer. But keep in mind that the engines are almost twice the size. That is not important in the racing world, because they are mostly interested in power output. But in the real world we are interested in cost of materials, cost to build, etc. We will assume, for all intents and purposes, you can build equivalent displacement engines of each type for the same costs. Therefore, in the real world, displacement is about as close as we can come to realistically comparing engine to engine. What we need to know is: How does the 1200cc 4-tec compare to a 1200cc 2-tec*, for example? Comparing it to a 600cc or 800cc two stroke does not mean much from a consumer point of view. * If such an engine existed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Rider Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Snowtech says different, the Nytro is quicker out of the hole than the 4Tek, not by much, but still quicker. I know that mine has WAY more pull than my 800 PowerTek and is ahead of my brotherinlaws 1000 Gade up to 80MPH. So far I'm impressed...... your brotherinlaws 1000 needs to be tuned a little They all need to be tuned a little...... :poke: :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I can tell you that our TZ1's have an excellent amount of low end jam . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyboy Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 The larger 4-strokes on the market are considered to be in the same class as 600-700cc 2-strokes. Well, not exactly apples to apples but I own an '05 600sdi Renegade and an '09 1200 4-tec Renegade and the 600 isn't even close at 1000 feet even flipping riders back and forth. Maybe not a fair comparison as the '05 is older technology and has 4500kms on it but immediately you can feel the harder pull of the 1200. Yamaha has really straightened out the Nytro since last year and the XR has been cleaned up since it's spring launch. I believe they are so equal that either is a good choice but I'll never look good in blue . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyboy Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? Can't see where this info is derived from. Yamaha has been nowhere this year so far in the CSRA or the WPSA. It's been the Tucker Hibbert show so far and it doesn't look like it's gonna change unless T.J. steps up. Levi's a long-shot. Overall, it looks like Polaris has the best sled again this year. The only fact that I can see you basing this statement on is the 2nd Pro Open at Bad River (WPSA). The factory Yamaha starting 14th (LCQ 4th) in the final pulled hard up to 5th on the start but ended up 8th (their best finish this year). With good reason. The start at Bad River is straight uphill (torque). Other than that they've been invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbill Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The handling of the 4-strokes has come a long way as well . The issue will be the cost of repairing these engines if they fail . 2-stroke engines cost much less to repair than 4-strokes as they have fewer parts that cost less. I would think that the engines out of wrecks will become a fast moving commodity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxz800 Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? One word....TORQUE. The same reason the 1200 4-Tec pulls any (stock) Yammie off the line. .....but let's not compare race sleds to stock... Snowtech says different, the Nytro is quicker out of the hole than the 4Tek, not by much, but still quicker. I know that mine has WAY more pull than my 800 PowerTek and is ahead of my brotherinlaws 1000 Gade up to 80MPH. So far I'm impressed...... your brotherinlaws 1000 needs to be tuned a little They all need to be tuned a little...... :poke: :poke: its all stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterules Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 The handling of the 4-strokes has come a long way as well . The issue will be the cost of repairing these engines if they fail . 2-stroke engines cost much less to repair than 4-strokes as they have fewer parts that cost less. I would think that the engines out of wrecks will become a fast moving commodity That's where warranty comes in . I would have to believe that most sledders on this form don't keep there rides for longer than 5 seasons allot much less than that . With Ski-Doo for example when you buy a new sled you should get the 2nd year engine warranty then just before that expires you can pay for a BEST 1 - 2 or 3 year extended warranty mostly covering the engine . That's what I did bought a 06 and I'm still under warranty till the end of the 2010 season . Plus if you sell you sled you can transfer the warranty to the new buyer giving them piece of mind . The extra 3 years cost me $1100.00 so only $366.00 a year . I'd say that's cheep insurance to replace my motor and running this 2 stroke 800 Doo I need it . The entire time I own my sled it's under warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lep Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I honestly think DOO has a winner here with the 4tech,been following alot of dicussion's on the XR chassi over at DT and so far there has how been many problem's at all,they are not as strong as the Yam below 5000rpm but after that look out,they handle,ride very well, even though they are comparied to a 600 2-stroke they are performing more like a 700/800 and with the right clutching they are out perfroming the 800,I can't wait to see what BRP is going to release mid season,I know it is not a etech 800 like everyone has been rummoring,so we will have to wait and see,I for see alot of the BLUE camp jumping ship the next few year's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 4 stroke feels fast - but wait until you line-up against a comparable 2-stroke... or go back and ride the 2 stroke.... nothing pulls off the line like a 2-stroke... if you love acceleration, then 2 stroke is the way to go.... ummmm.. then why are the Yammies holeshotting everything else in sno cross???? Can't see where this info is derived from. Yamaha has been nowhere this year so far in the CSRA or the WPSA. It's been the Tucker Hibbert show so far and it doesn't look like it's gonna change unless T.J. steps up. Levi's a long-shot. Overall, it looks like Polaris has the best sled again this year. The only fact that I can see you basing this statement on is the 2nd Pro Open at Bad River (WPSA). The factory Yamaha starting 14th (LCQ 4th) in the final pulled hard up to 5th on the start but ended up 8th (their best finish this year). With good reason. The start at Bad River is straight uphill (torque). Other than that they've been invisible. not basing it on finishing... just saying that the 4 strokes have the torque out of the hole, but get got up in the bumps and corners due to weight placement being more up front... was just reacting to the comment that 2-stokes have more hole shot speed.... doesn't seem so anymore from what I see on TV and read in the mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I honestly think DOO has a winner here with the 4tech,been following alot of dicussion's on the XR chassi over at DT and so far there has how been many problem's at all,they are not as strong as the Yam below 5000rpm but after that look out,they handle,ride very well, even though they are comparied to a 600 2-stroke they are performing more like a 700/800 and with the right clutching they are out perfroming the 800,I can't wait to see what BRP is going to release mid season,I know it is not a etech 800 like everyone has been rummoring,so we will have to wait and see,I for see alot of the BLUE camp jumping ship the next few year's...... I was with you until the last sentence I forsee alot of the BLUE camp jumping ship the next few year's...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedtoSkidoo Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 there is going to be an 800 etec. maybe not early season but there will be one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 there is going to be an 800 etec. maybe not early season but there will be one! Thanks - Doo 'mid year' releases are always interesting. Hey, UTS... shouldn't you change your signature to "Happy Friggin New Year"? And now, back to 4 stroke vs 2 stroke .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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